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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Let's chat about the economics of clampack characters for a second.

A sprue of miniatures in plastic has an overhead cost primarily related to the machine tooling needed to create that sprue. You need to budget for the molds, and the time you spend injection molding an individual sprue. Metal miniatures and to a lesser extent some resin, is primarily based on the cost of the material, and as such you could make a nice little profit margin selling a clampacked metal character for about 10$, but the low volume of expected sales for, say, a Primaris Apothecary leads to a price point that's pretty unpalatable.

That's why a space marine from a box of 10 costs effectively 4$/miniature, and a space marine from a clampack costs 30$/miniature. You have to justify the cost of the sprue, not the individual minis.

The lifehack way around that would be if you could guarantee equal sales volume for ALL your individual clampack figures. Then, you could run a single sprue, and have all the character minis for marines, or orks, or drukhari, whatever. And you could base their prices on the fraction of the sprue that they are, leading to a price point of more like 4$ per mini than 30$.

That is I think ultimately the experiment behind SM heroes. Can it act as a low-cost enticement to new players by matching the price point of other popular blindpack toys (See: Lego Minifigure Blindpacks, which tend to be about 5$ for a plastic figure of approximately the same size and are hugely successful) while also providing existing players a sense of increased value by virtue of being able to buy nearly ten times as many miniatures for the price versus just picking the one individually packed character you want off the shelf?

To me, the answer is yes. I love the concept behind SM heroes, and I would love to see it expanded to other factions. Tyranids and Orks seem like they would hit the non-40k player audience of 10-15 year olds who like blindpack toys while also providing the opportunity to cheaply update some sorely outdated plastic sculpts in the process.

What if we could get back some of the diversity of wargear and character variety we lost through switching individual miniatures from 25$ individual buys to 4$ blindpacks? Would that work better or worse for a largescale game like 40k, to be able to buy 6 random-packed miniatures and get a selection of HQs, support characters, and extra special and heavy weapon squadmembers to supplement our existing collections?

What if they were even made modular, and used as a way to circumvent the current "no model no rules" policy by giving players access to a bunch of extra weapons and wargear options not present in the current model kits? Would you love or hate that?
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





It doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Not sure on the practicality of it, especially outside of Marines, but it would be very welcome. Any way to update older metal and resin models, or give the option for more variety in wargear loadout for HQs is good by me.

Take a look at what I've been painting and modelling: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/725222.page 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





It's an interesting idea. Needing a specific character could be frustrating if your only option is random packs, but there's enough of a secondary market that buying individual models would still be viable.

I agree with craggy, though, regarding practicality for non-Marine factions. Tyranids, for example, only have a couple of HQ choices of wildly varying sizes, and don't have heavy weapon troopers or the like to mix into a regular squad. Tau don't really do squad-level heavy weapons either, and their characters range from human-sized to battlesuits.

Or, hey, maybe I'm just lacking imagination. I could see it working.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not a bad idea.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





Please do not do random content.

Instead pack 10 Character models into a single box.

Who would not pay 10$ more than a clampack with 9 more dudes in it even if they do not need all of them? As soon as you need 2 hqs you are already ahead.

   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 combatcotton wrote:
Please do not do random content.

Instead pack 10 Character models into a single box.

Who would not pay 10$ more than a clampack with 9 more dudes in it even if they do not need all of them? As soon as you need 2 hqs you are already ahead.



Given that GW usually tries to experiment with Space Marines, and Space Marines got

-A more expensive commander kit who came with options, and

-a Command Squad kit that came with a commander plus rando bodyguards

and no other factions got those things, I'd infer that they didn't sell particularly well, and people were not willing to pay more to get more minis.
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

I hate blindboxes but as you can buy a full box that garantees you'll have one of each, then I see no problem with this, only benefits.

My store now always adds a random SM Heroes box to the price pool, and is actually quite exciting to see what one is for the person that won that price. That small uncertainty is exciting

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





the_scotsman wrote:

Given that GW usually tries to experiment with Space Marines, and Space Marines got

-A more expensive commander kit who came with options, and

-a Command Squad kit that came with a commander plus rando bodyguards

and no other factions got those things, I'd infer that they didn't sell particularly well, and people were not willing to pay more to get more minis.


Isn't that just because those command squads have crap rules?

Also of course people do not want to pay significantly more money for one dude just because there is an additional power weapon etc. in the pack. Bitz you can get from a lot of sources. That thing was obviously a ripp off. All these 30$ characters feel like ripp offs. That is why if you'd pack 10 (or 5) in a box for about the same prize as regular rank'n'file folks it could very much sell.
Especially when you consider that a lot of the parts do not have to be interchangeable as they are in troop boxes.
People can still trade left overs amongst each other.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 combatcotton wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

Given that GW usually tries to experiment with Space Marines, and Space Marines got

-A more expensive commander kit who came with options, and

-a Command Squad kit that came with a commander plus rando bodyguards

and no other factions got those things, I'd infer that they didn't sell particularly well, and people were not willing to pay more to get more minis.


Isn't that just because those command squads have crap rules?

Also of course people do not want to pay significantly more money for one dude just because there is an additional power weapon etc. in the pack. Bitz you can get from a lot of sources. That thing was obviously a ripp off. All these 30$ characters feel like ripp offs. That is why if you'd pack 10 (or 5) in a box for about the same prize as regular rank'n'file folks it could very much sell.
Especially when you consider that a lot of the parts do not have to be interchangeable as they are in troop boxes.
People can still trade left overs amongst each other.


It is almost a certainty that among these theoretical 10-man packs, some, if not many, of the models would be less viable than others.

I can come up with the following instances where this occurred:

-Guard command squads: include other special weapons you don't get in standard guard kits. Include some alternate sculpts. Includes the bits for a company commander, you can't get those individually.

-SM command squads: Includes a captain with options plus the Command Squad/HOnor Guard units.

-Thousand Sons Exalted Sorcerors: Gives you three exalted sorcerors with very few gameplay-impacting options and very many aesthetic-only options.

-GSC Broodcoven: Gives you three completely monopose characters bundled together in one kit. Cost somewhat less than 3 individually packed characters.

I can't think of any instances where this style of presentation is preferred to individually packed nonblind characters. Some are widely disliked and complained about, like the SM command squad and Tsons exalted sorcerors, because you often only want the single character from the box and inevitably you pay more than you would for an individual character clampack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to be clear, the three systems I"m looking at here are:

1) individually packed plastic mini-sprue characters. Monopose, typically 25$ apiece for a standard size mini.

2) Individually packed plastic mini-sprue characters with weapon options, ala CSM terminator lord, SM captain. usually 35-40$, still one model but with options.

3) Multi-packed plastic sprue including 1 character and retinue or multiple characters. tYpically at the same 45$-50$ price point of a basic troop box, includes 3-5 miniatures with some options.

4) Blindpacked characters/special weapons. Typically the same cost per miniature as basic 10-man troop squads, meaning the blindpacks cost 4-5$ each. But critically, you can't know what you get unless you are buying from a third party retailer who buys them in bulk, unpacks and resells them, and probably charges more based on demand.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 14:16:43


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 combatcotton wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

Given that GW usually tries to experiment with Space Marines, and Space Marines got

-A more expensive commander kit who came with options, and

-a Command Squad kit that came with a commander plus rando bodyguards

and no other factions got those things, I'd infer that they didn't sell particularly well, and people were not willing to pay more to get more minis.


Isn't that just because those command squads have crap rules?

Also of course people do not want to pay significantly more money for one dude just because there is an additional power weapon etc. in the pack. Bitz you can get from a lot of sources. That thing was obviously a ripp off. All these 30$ characters feel like ripp offs. That is why if you'd pack 10 (or 5) in a box for about the same prize as regular rank'n'file folks it could very much sell.
Especially when you consider that a lot of the parts do not have to be interchangeable as they are in troop boxes.
People can still trade left overs amongst each other.

You're probably right about why those kits didn't sell, outside of the wingface helmet that everyone seems to hate.

If GW released a kit that contained a regular and a Terminator version each of a Captain, Librarian, and Chaplain, an Apothocary, an Ancient, and a Lieutenant, along with regular cloak backpacks, a couple of Vanguard-style jump packs, a couple of cloak backpacks designed to fit on a bike model, and a good selection of melee weapons, pistols, storm bolters, and combi weapons, I'd probably buy it even though I've got kit-bashed versions of all that stuff and some of it never sees the table.

The same goes for a primaris kit with a Captain and Lieutenant and their available options, and a Gravis Captain, Libby, Chaplain, Apothocary, and Ancient. (I might not buy that one, but a newer player would probably be happy for the option.)

Gw has two problems with that:

1) When they add something (Phobos armor comes to mind) they can't add it to the existing kit, but there might not be enough to justify a new HQ box on the initial release. And once there is enough, now they're up to three different HQ boxes that might not have a lot of rhyme or reason to them.

2) GW charges extra for a kit they don't expect to sell a lot of, and an HQ box like that definitely falls into that category. There's a LOT of stuff in either of the boxes I described, that might wind up a prohibitively expensive kit. (Although we'll pay $85 for three Centurions, so who knows.)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/09 15:09:39


 
   
 
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