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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Despite all the mockery, I think that GW is ran by smart people who work hard to create quality products. Like any team, sometimes they succeed wildly, and at times, they fail miserably.

That said, at times I don’t understand what the thought process was in some decisions.

Forgeworld listed Legio Custodes Venatari squads for sale back in November. I saw them forsale on a China Cast site in April. So there was about a 4-5 month lag. In that time if you wanted Venatari your money went to Forgeworld. And that is what they want..

Forgeworld released the New Armigers, and the new Acastus Asterien knight so the clock started clicking 5/12. I expect to see them on a recaster site October 12th. Possibly before then.

But they didn’t give them 40K rules from the outset. I’d be on ebay or looking for preorders off the official site… but No Rules. And by the time they have rules… Well how do I spend my Hobby dollars?

It just felt dumb. That Crucial first period is where they have the best chance for strong sales before other competitors can react. And it feels like they ignored it.
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Reemule wrote:
Despite all the mockery, I think that GW is ran by smart people who work hard to create quality products. Like any team, sometimes they succeed wildly, and at times, they fail miserably.

That said, at times I don’t understand what the thought process was in some decisions.

Forgeworld listed Legio Custodes Venatari squads for sale back in November. I saw them forsale on a China Cast site in April. So there was about a 4-5 month lag. In that time if you wanted Venatari your money went to Forgeworld. And that is what they want..

Forgeworld released the New Armigers, and the new Acastus Asterien knight so the clock started clicking 5/12. I expect to see them on a recaster site October 12th. Possibly before then.

But they didn’t give them 40K rules from the outset. I’d be on ebay or looking for preorders off the official site… but No Rules. And by the time they have rules… Well how do I spend my Hobby dollars?

It just felt dumb. That Crucial first period is where they have the best chance for strong sales before other competitors can react. And it feels like they ignored it.
Nothing new about "yes model, no rules".
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






The thought process is that Forge World don't do 40k rules. skchan is incorrect in his assertion; all of these models either already have or will have rules by the day of their release, for Horus Heresy.

Rules for 40k are done by the 40k studio, when they have the time set aside to do so in between main releases.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Look you can play the games that its this group and that group and Forgeworld and whatever.

Another way to put it is GW failed to coordinate between its sub groups and left money on the table if that makes it more palatable.



   
Made in ca
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Heart of Fadeless Splendour

Why do you care?

Are you a shareholder? If so, cast your vote(s) accordingly. If not... why do you care?

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,662pts painted (updated 19/05/19)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 08/05/19, ep8 - Звезда | Zvezda | The Star)
The Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 06/05/19)

Never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cause it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Well I have this game I play that I spent a bunch of money on, and I'd prefer they continue to support it for about another 50 years.

Other than that, I also care cause stupidity depresses me.
   
Made in ca
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oshawa Ontario

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Why do you care?

Are you a shareholder? If so, cast your vote(s) accordingly. If not... why do you care?


Stands to reason that he likes the new models, and is curious about the rules before he commits to a purchase. He also finds the delay between releasing a model and making rules for it strange, as it would almost certainly eat into GW's profits. It's especially strange since a random dude can whip together a rules set for a model in a matter of minutes and slap it on the Forgeworld site.

Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!

See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator





Eye of Terror

The amount of money GW loses to recasters is tiny compared to actual revenues. The people buying recasts are not the people who actually buy GW's product, and GW would not want them as customers.

There's a whole body of literature about counterfeit consumer goods and consumer behavior. Regular consumers of counterfeit goods have a lot of undesirable tendencies in terms of income, ability to keep a job, perceived social status, ability to maintain relationships, criminal backgrounds, etc. They are gamma personalities who go against anything they perceive as the 'system' or the 'crowd.' Most people call these consumers degenerates, few people tolerate them and fewer trust them. Part of the reason counterfeits are tolerated in so many countries is that it gives people like this an outlet that keeps them away from actual brands.

If any money is being left on the table, it is not being lost to the counterfeit consumer. They were never going to buy it because they can't afford it and no one wants to play with them. If anything, recasters are turning counterfeit consumers into advertising for real GW customers who want the same model in a less-trashy form. On a 6 - 12 month window, it's going to be a net positive for GW if counterfeit lovers start walking around with the cheap stuff.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





You have to consider all the people who buy models just to paint them. We like to think we're the big dog for their sales, but people who enter Golden Daemon are spending hundreds to thousands of dollars to get a model on display that will never ever see the table.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I wanted to read your post but it was hard to due all the personal axe grinding and bias Techsoldaten.

I've no desire to referendum on the GW-Recast thing.

Mine is more this seems like a puzzling business practice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
You have to consider all the people who buy models just to paint them. We like to think we're the big dog for their sales, but people who enter Golden Daemon are spending hundreds to thousands of dollars to get a model on display that will never ever see the table.



But do they? Do they?

FB is an interesting resource. In my local area, many are part of the various communities and part of the local page. And if there is anything Painters do want to do it is post their work. I've seen lots of painters, doing lots of hard insane work.. but not enough to account for hundreds of models flying off the shelf, and not enough to even slightly compare to the ones showing on the game table.

Yes, the none gaming paint segment is strong. Is it stronger than the game segment? I'm not seeing that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/13 15:43:15


 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

Someone in my game group told me they had a thing on one of their social media accounts stating they have no intention of making 40k rules at the moment for the new armigers. They want them to be 30th exclusively for the time being. Makes me sad, because I love the baby knights lol.
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut





This is why they need to re-write the 30k rules so that they are once again compatible with the main game. God be with the days you could throw down a Salamanders Legion army and play your mate's Tau or Orks without any hassle. I wouldn't be surprised if the silly decision to keep the two rulesets discreet is costing the company a fair bit if cash.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I didn't do anything exhaustive, but looking around I've not seen any mention of the models not getting 40K rules.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 techsoldaten wrote:
The people buying recasts are not the people who actually buy GW's product, and GW would not want them as customers.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Regular consumers of counterfeit goods have a lot of undesirable tendencies in terms of income, ability to keep a job, perceived social status, ability to maintain relationships, criminal backgrounds, etc.

 techsoldaten wrote:
They are gamma personalities who go against anything they perceive as the 'system' or the 'crowd.'

 techsoldaten wrote:
Most people call these consumers degenerates, few people tolerate them and fewer trust them.

 techsoldaten wrote:
If any money is being left on the table, it is not being lost to the counterfeit consumer. They were never going to buy it because they can't afford it and no one wants to play with them.


Wew lad, this reads like Reefer Madness.

In my admittedly anecdotal experience, all the people I've seen with recasts are folks heavily invested in the hobby but not always willing to pay FW prices. Maybe the guy with 4K of Imperial Fists and a pair of legit Warhound titans- but who also has a recast Elysian army on the side- is secretly a non-conformist jobless degenerate who can't afford 40K. Or maybe not.

Anyways, even if recasting didn't exist, I'd say that GW is shooting themselves in the foot by releasing models without 40K rules. For a company that writes rules to sell models, you'd think they'd make a point of ensuring everything they sell has in-game use.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/13 17:50:18


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Do parts for GW models that replace weapons GW makes count as recasts too? Because for my expiriance people buy anything they want, as long as they have money. They can buy a castellan one month and then a few months later they buy resin turrets for their lemman russes.
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






catbarf wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
The people buying recasts are not the people who actually buy GW's product, and GW would not want them as customers.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Regular consumers of counterfeit goods have a lot of undesirable tendencies in terms of income, ability to keep a job, perceived social status, ability to maintain relationships, criminal backgrounds, etc.

 techsoldaten wrote:
They are gamma personalities who go against anything they perceive as the 'system' or the 'crowd.'

 techsoldaten wrote:
Most people call these consumers degenerates, few people tolerate them and fewer trust them.

 techsoldaten wrote:
If any money is being left on the table, it is not being lost to the counterfeit consumer. They were never going to buy it because they can't afford it and no one wants to play with them.


Wew lad, this reads like Reefer Madness.

In my admittedly anecdotal experience, all the people I've seen with recasts are folks heavily invested in the hobby but not always willing to pay FW prices. Maybe the guy with 4K of Imperial Fists and a pair of legit Warhound titans- but who also has a recast Elysian army on the side- is secretly a non-conformist jobless degenerate who can't afford 40K. Or maybe not.

Anyways, even if recasting didn't exist, I'd say that GW is shooting themselves in the foot by releasing models without 40K rules. For a company that writes rules to sell models, you'd think they'd make a point of ensuring everything they sell has in-game use.


I agree with you and want to elaborate/add.

Lets talk music. Remember wen CDs cost 20.00 and had 7 songs on it with only 1 or 2 of them being something you heard on the radio and the res of them were a crap shoot?

Remember when Napster and such made stealing music incredibly easy?

Remember how the thing that actually stopped that was when the music industry started selling songs for 1.00 and you could preview them for free so you knew what you were buying?


People steal because it's actually easier to steal then the loops the company forces you to go through to get the product. FW isn't easily available in te vast majority of the world. It's also priced crazily and it's quality isn't anything to write home about. The recasters get you better quality, at a cheaper price, wit faster shipping (and you have to do shipping regardless). If FW was more reasonably priced and sold in stores recasters would loose a huge amount of their market.

People are not degenerate, poor, antisocial, monsters for buying recasts. They are just following the path of least resistance to get the thing they want at the price they are willing to pay.



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in ca
Implacable Skitarii




catbarf wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
The people buying recasts are not the people who actually buy GW's product, and GW would not want them as customers.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Regular consumers of counterfeit goods have a lot of undesirable tendencies in terms of income, ability to keep a job, perceived social status, ability to maintain relationships, criminal backgrounds, etc.

 techsoldaten wrote:
They are gamma personalities who go against anything they perceive as the 'system' or the 'crowd.'

 techsoldaten wrote:
Most people call these consumers degenerates, few people tolerate them and fewer trust them.

 techsoldaten wrote:
If any money is being left on the table, it is not being lost to the counterfeit consumer. They were never going to buy it because they can't afford it and no one wants to play with them.


Wew lad, this reads like Reefer Madness.

In my admittedly anecdotal experience, all the people I've seen with recasts are folks heavily invested in the hobby but not always willing to pay FW prices. Maybe the guy with 4K of Imperial Fists and a pair of legit Warhound titans- but who also has a recast Elysian army on the side- is secretly a non-conformist jobless degenerate who can't afford 40K. Or maybe not.

Anyways, even if recasting didn't exist, I'd say that GW is shooting themselves in the foot by releasing models without 40K rules. For a company that writes rules to sell models, you'd think they'd make a point of ensuring everything they sell has in-game use.



His post was pretty hard to read with all that prejudice in it. I get not agreeing with people that buy recasts but no need to generalize like that. also, flash news : you probably play against recasts often without even noticing it.

Admech 4000
Drukhari 1250
Imperial knights 800

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




That is the way these Recast threads always work.

1. Recasts are bad.
2. You can't tell if something is recast, and might have, or even play against recast at times.
3. Un-policable issues are not worth your manufactured outrage.

Back to GW's self own on Money, and lack of 40K rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/13 18:25:29


 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Indomitable Hell Rider of Glorious Renown






102nd Expeditionary Fleet

Locking this topic as we do not allow discussion of recasting.

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