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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Is it possible for SM’s to have mixed DNA from 2 different GeneSeeds?

Has this been done before? And are there any current chapters that have mixed GeneSeed?

Many theanks
   
Made in gb
Cosmic Joe





Yes.

One example is the Red Scimitars from the second Fabius Bile novel, who have mixed gene seeds from two legions (which ones are unnamed) and Bile notes how desperate the Imperium must have gotten to do this.



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Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut





Carcharodons seem to be hinted at being 'mongrel' too. Ravenguard with a hint of World Eaters.
   
Made in gb
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





The Relictors IA article doth state: "The source of the Relictors' geneseed is largely based on gene stock taken from the laboratorium on Mars and is thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarine and Dark Angels. If this is the case, then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the use of Dark Angel's geneseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat."

It always struck me as curious that the author felt obliged to detail the oddity of Dark Angels geneseed being used at all, but felt the use of mixed geneseed was unworthy of comment..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/15 18:35:13


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wouldn't such a mix have a huge rate of mortality among aspirants, and by huge I mean comparing to normal death rates of pure gene seed aspirants?
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Karol wrote:
Wouldn't such a mix have a huge rate of mortality among aspirants, and by huge I mean comparing to normal death rates of pure gene seed aspirants?


we... don;t know eneugh about how geneseed works to really say for sure. it's possiable, on the other hand using mixed geneseed could be a solution to addressing minor mutation issues etc within the geneseed by mixing in a geneseed noted for it's stability they might reduce mutation rates wll, hopefully, maintaining aspects about the geneseed seen as desirable. Such as, ideally a Imperial Fists/Space Wolves mix could give you a chapter of savage killers with all their organs, without any of the genetic deviancy of the space Wolves.

of course breeding being what it is you're just as likely to get a chapter of wulfen sans Bultcher glands

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Most of the Cursed Founding were mixed I believe. Such as the Lamentors, made of Blood Angel, and Salamander geneseed.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
Wouldn't such a mix have a huge rate of mortality among aspirants, and by huge I mean comparing to normal death rates of pure gene seed aspirants?


Probably, but when you're talking about a chapter that only has 1000 marines at best, you can go through a few hundred thousand aspirants to replenish your numbers if the result is a good space marine.
   
Made in au
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk




I feel that Honsou of the Iron Warriors deserves a mention, having some Imperial Fist geneseed in him.

Indeed I think a lot of Chaos Space marines who were "born" into chaos after the heresy would likly as not have mixed geneseed by necessity.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Fargo, ND USA

cody.d. wrote:
I feel that Honsou of the Iron Warriors deserves a mention, having some Imperial Fist geneseed in him.

Indeed I think a lot of Chaos Space marines who were "born" into chaos after the heresy would likly as not have mixed geneseed by necessity.


Most of the horde of "Black Legion" that attacked Ultramar at Guiliman's rebirth were made up of the geneseed stolen from the events of Storm of Iron, so it stands to reason many of them are probably mixed.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Platuan4th wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
I feel that Honsou of the Iron Warriors deserves a mention, having some Imperial Fist geneseed in him.

Indeed I think a lot of Chaos Space marines who were "born" into chaos after the heresy would likly as not have mixed geneseed by necessity.


Most of the horde of "Black Legion" that attacked Ultramar at Guiliman's rebirth were made up of the geneseed stolen from the events of Storm of Iron, so it stands to reason many of them are probably mixed.


whats your source for that?
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Karol wrote:
Wouldn't such a mix have a huge rate of mortality among aspirants, and by huge I mean comparing to normal death rates of pure gene seed aspirants?


Probably not considering that in nature "pure bloodlines" are those most at risk of defect. Is suppose that basically cloning over and over the same genetic material causes defect over time and the need to add some new genetic material the repair the degradation becomes necessary.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Honsou. It's why he. Was known as the half breed. I'm guessing quite a few iron warriors are. Also honsou thithed alot of assorted loyal geense to black legion in 13th Black crusade.

The war smith promised. And he furfulled it. He managed to keep x a mount to help build he own forces up.

Part iron warrior. Pear impirial fist gene seed gained in battle.

Hybrids are possible and fully effective marines, Honsou is half and half and he rose to be one of the fastest growing chaos Lords and future potential to be a potential war master of chaos.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/22 22:08:18


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Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

 Gashrog wrote:
The Relictors IA article doth state: "The source of the Relictors' geneseed is largely based on gene stock taken from the laboratorium on Mars and is thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarine and Dark Angels. If this is the case, then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the use of Dark Angel's geneseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat."

It always struck me as curious that the author felt obliged to detail the oddity of Dark Angels geneseed being used at all, but felt the use of mixed geneseed was unworthy of comment..
I thought this meant some marines had DA geneseed, others had Ultramarine geneseed.Didn't think it meant one marine had a bunch of organs from one chapter and another bunch from another.
   
Made in us
Powerful Irongut




nareik wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gashrog wrote:
The Relictors IA article doth state: "The source of the Relictors' geneseed is largely based on gene stock taken from the laboratorium on Mars and is thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarine and Dark Angels. If this is the case, then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the use of Dark Angel's geneseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat."

It always struck me as curious that the author felt obliged to detail the oddity of Dark Angels geneseed being used at all, but felt the use of mixed geneseed was unworthy of comment..
I thought this meant some marines had DA geneseed, others had Ultramarine geneseed.Didn't think it meant one marine had a bunch of organs from one chapter and another bunch from another.


The quote says describes it happening in the Martian labs. One of the few things we know for sure about marine chapters is that they start with a single marine’s worth of zygotes, one for each organ. Then they make 1000 copies of that one original. All the marines in a chapter have copies of that one original set. That means the mixture would have to take place within that original set, eg some organs were ultramarines and some were dark angel, and every marine has a copy of that combined set.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Oh that's cool, are some primarchs particularly genetically compatible with each other? Maybe the DA/UM are particularly common as they don't immune/reject each other.
   
Made in us
Powerful Irongut




Nobody knows. That sentence in the relictors IA is about 70% of what GW has published about mixed gene seed. There’s the cursed founding IA, and then McNeil’s Honsou booms, who was later said to have been result of a lab accident for some reason, but nothing says anything clearly.

I’d say that it’s just as much on the level of the individual organ. Compatibility would happen on the molecular level. Just the same way you have ABO and RH +/- blood typing, there’d be variations in antigens and other subcellular structures and that’s the kind of thing that would vary from marine to marine.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

nareik wrote:
Oh that's cool, are some primarchs particularly genetically compatible with each other? Maybe the DA/UM are particularly common as they don't immune/reject each other.

Considering all the Primarchs are derived from a single genome, that is not particularly surprising. In "Deliverance Lost", the Emperor gives Corax a sample of the pure, undifferentiated Primarch gene-stock that was the source for the Primarchs. Corax notes that sample 6 contained strains of canine DNA while sample 20 had some of the growth enhancers removed. This suggests he was able to compare the DNA of the Primarchs against the original template that they were developed from.

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