Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Recently, I had a thought. It was a happy, murder robot thought.

Invasion beam off the NScythe is treated as per disembarking from a vehicle. Now, unlike deepstriking, can't you dismbark from a vehicle outside of your deployment turn 1?

This is important for the murderrobots because I would find it hilarious to drop 40 rapid firing necron warriors and 10 scytheguard 12 inches from the enemy turn 1 with a 3 inch move after disembark, a 5 inch move towards the unfortunate sods, 80 rapid fire shots and 3 charges.

I mean... that is comedy gold.

Can I legally do this? (C'tan to move 2 nscythes prior to turn 1, scythes drop 2 units + 1 for enhanced invasion beam.)

 DogHeadGod wrote:
Recently, I had a thought. It was a happy, murder robot thought.

Invasion beam off the NScythe is treated as per disembarking from a vehicle. Now, unlike deepstriking, can't you dismbark from a vehicle outside of your deployment turn 1?

This is important for the murderrobots because I would find it hilarious to drop 40 rapid firing necron warriors and 10 scytheguard 12 inches from the enemy turn 1 with a 3 inch move after disembark, a 5 inch move towards the unfortunate sods, 80 rapid fire shots and 3 charges.

I mean... that is comedy gold.

Can I legally do this? (C'tan to move 2 nscythes prior to turn 1, scythes drop 2 units + 1 for enhanced invasion beam.)

You cannot move further if you disembark from a moving transport. However, if you redeploy them with the Deceiver, they don't count as having moved so you can disembark the unit, move them and then charge them.

Whether or not the errata'd rule allows you to ignore the Matched Play rule Tactical Reserves is another can of worms that has no clear answer. See later post

The transport did not move that turn. Disembark prior to move, transport moved to position prior to turn 1 via C'tan Deceiver

From the 'Tactical Reserve' rule:

Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

The units are ser up on the Tomb World rather than the battlefield hence the above applies to units arriving via a Night Scythe's 'Invasion Beams' rule. This is further confirmed by the following from the Necron FAQ:

Page 110 – Stratagems, Emergency Invasion Beam
Add the following sentence:
‘Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first battle round even if you are using the Tactical Reserves matched play rule.’

This would be unnecessary if they were simply disembaring from a vehicle.

Counterpoint: per the Necron faq, both E Gate and I Beam, units count as disembarking from a transport for all rules purposes. If this is so, it means this is counted as a transport disembark, not a teleportation or deep strike. Tac Reserves applies to teleport or dstrike, not to transport disembarcation.

That is the crux: per the necron errata, this seems to work.

Supporting this is that during deployment, my tomb world units do not gain me information advantage, but also don't count towards drop count like teleportarium units do.

My Flayed ones or Deathmarks using their special rules *are* treated as per a teleportarium, btw. It's a different ruling, I believe, bc of the errata

Both rules apply. You can't arrive on the table turn one due to the 'Tactical Reserve' rule and when you do you count as having disembarked from a Transport, (i.e. it follows the rules for Disembarking on page 183 of the Main Rulebook). Why would they go out of their way to say you count as Disembarking 'for all rules purposes' if the Night Scythe was just another Transport and would have used those rules anyway?

 Ghaz wrote:
Both rules apply. You can't arrive on the table turn one due to the 'Tactical Reserve' rule and when you do you count as having disembarked from a Transport, (i.e. it follows the rules for Disembarking on page 183 of the Main Rulebook). Why would they go out of their way to say you count as Disembarking 'for all rules purposes' if the Night Scythe was just another Transport and would have used those rules anyway?

Yeah on second look, I would agree. Both rules apply. The "counts as disembarking" rule just lets them move further that turn if you do it before the Night Scythe moves.

Because, functionally, those two models are our transports. They function differently, and therefore requires clarification. I would see the errata as a specific rule overriding the general rule of tac reserves on this point, and the EIB clarification of intent as to that point.

If my tomb world troops are counted as tac reserves for all purposes, no doubt, your assessment would, IMHO, be the correct one. However, they aren't, and every clarification on rules shows us that, specifically, they are functionally different.

If Warhammer functions on a "specific overrides general " rule structure, and we have the general rule as tac reserves modified by the errata "functions as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes", would that not include the tac reserves rule?

 DogHeadGod wrote:
If Warhammer functions on a "specific overrides general " rule structure, and we have the general rule as tac reserves modified by the errata "functions as having disembarked from a transport for all rules purposes", would that not include the tac reserves rule?

No, because that rule only applies after they are set up. The Tactical Reserves rule prevents you from ever setting up in the first place.

If you can apply both rules without contradiction, then you must apply them both. If they contradict, then specific overrides general and most recent overrides older. If BCB and Ghaz are correct (and, honestly, they usually are), then you cannot run them as you'd like to.

Q: Are units that are set up on their tomb world using the
Invasion Beams and Eternity Gate abilities considered to be on
the battlefield for the purposes of the Tactical Reserves matched
play rule?
A: No, they do not count as being set up on the
battlefield and are considered to be reinforcements for
the purposes of the Tactical Reserves rule.

For whatever weird reason GW thinks necrons shouldnt be able to disembark from their transports T1, but only in matched play. Every faction can disembark on T1 from their transports, but not necrons. Because necron infantry is, by far, the most dangerous of all factions, but only in matched play