Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 19:25:26
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
So who do you think is the most misunderstood primarch out of the 18 Legions?
|
Welcome to clown town. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 19:29:49
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
|
Alpharius
SG
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/06 19:33:40
40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers
*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. *** |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 19:32:49
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
That’s understandable as there’s little information on him and his twin.
|
Welcome to clown town. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 20:01:04
Subject: Re:Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Powerful Ushbati
|
Personally I think it is angron. As I understand it, the emperor basically let all his friends die, for no reason and this served as part of the catalyst that lead to his fall.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 20:09:57
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Magnus, a good guy that get sentenced to death for telling his dad that one of his brothers is going to rebel.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 20:14:06
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
|
Angron, he was never what he was supposed to be and he knew it, his brothers knew it and the emperor knew it, he tried to do what the emperor wanted at first but the nails would never allow him to reach any kind of potential other than violence.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 20:14:34
Subject: Re:Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Togusa wrote:Personally I think it is angron. As I understand it, the emperor basically let all his friends die, for no reason and this served as part of the catalyst that lead to his fall.
Kinda covers most of the fallen primarchs tho.
Off the top of my head Angron, Magnus, Lorgar, Mortarion and Perturarbo all fell because the Emperor was just an utter dick.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote:Angron, he was never what he was supposed to be and he knew it, his brothers knew it and the emperor knew it, he tried to do what the emperor wanted at first but the nails would never allow him to reach any kind of potential other than violence.
Angron never forgave the Emperor for not letting him die with his gladiator brothers, but the Emperor could have simply teleported down with a hand full of Custodes (or even just himself really) and fought with Angron and the gladiators to defeat the slavers.
But yeah, no matter, what the Nails were always going to drive Angron insane, and eventually kill him. There was no way to remove them.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/06 20:18:32
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 20:43:51
Subject: Re:Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Ordana wrote:Angron never forgave the Emperor for not letting him die with his gladiator brothers, but the Emperor could have simply teleported down with a hand full of Custodes (or even just himself really) and fought with Angron and the gladiators to defeat the slavers.
One of the stories explains this. Nuceria accepted Imperial Compliance. Attacking the legitimate (if unpleasant) government of a planet that had already accepted compliance would have been a really bad move for the Emperor as the story would have spread and other planets would have resisted compliance on the basis that the Imperium could not be trusted to honour its peaceful promises.
I think it is "Ghosts of Nuceria".
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 22:09:15
Subject: Re:Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
|
Perturabo (Iron Warriors) From my own point of view he was the most "human" of them. He strived for doing and being the best, expected his actions to speak for themselves and his brothers were too blinded by conceit and ambition to notice. Perturabo was a grim warrior and master of technological arcana who wielded logic and the mathematics of warfare as keenly as he did a blade and Bolter... ...The Lord of Iron was taciturn to the point of insult, preferring to harbour his thoughts against the threat of treachery, even amongst his kin. Few would call him friend, but none could fault his ability to wage a campaign and plot the most direct course to victory. His word was as unbreakable as iron. His friendship was not easily achieved, but his loyalty, once won, was as unbreakable as the hardest iron. Perturabo's capacity for learning was truly incredible, and it swiftly came to be said that of all of the Emperor's sons, he was the most gifted in terms of raw scientific and technical intelligence. Overdog Mashogg's vast orbital fortifications had previously repulsed attack after attack from both the Space Wolves and the White Scars Legions. Perturabo, whose plan succeeded at last in breaking the line and allowing for the Orks slaughter is recorded in the contemporary chronicles of his brother-Legions only as a nameless "comrade-in-arms." One often-cited example was the Iron Keep on Delgas II, where a single Tactical Squad of ten Iron Warriors was stationed, despite the world having a disgruntled population of almost 130 million people. Where other Primarchs like Leman Russ, Vulkan and Magnus the Red refused to split their forces, Perturabo obeyed his orders with increasing bitterness. The Iron Warriors were being turned into a garrison Legion, with tiny deployments all over the Imperium. The Iron Warriors' indisputable success in siege warfare led to them being "typecast" so that they became the automatic choice for any siege or garrison mission, ignoring the basic needs of all the Legion's Astartes for rest and reorganisation. Many who view the matter with enough dispassion see, rightly or wrongly, a Legion eroded by too much horror, too much attrition and death in the service of a cause to which they went unheralded and unthanked. "A name to lodge in the hearts of all who hear it." — Primarch Perturabo, after permanently coining the name for the Eye of Terror on the stellar astropathic charts. "You don't know the things I dream. No one does, no one ever cared enough to find out." — Primarch Perturabo speaking to Fulgrim His inner sanctum contained a superb collection of precisely reconstructed stonework, multiple murals and painted works of art as well as hundreds of rolled parchments containing architectural wonders of his own design. Immense drawing desks bore architectural plans for grand pavilions, magnificent amphitheatres, complex industrial infrastructures, vast hives of habitation, impregnable citadels and ornate palaces to rival that of the mountain fastness of the Emperor Himself. The Lord of Iron was also able to speak multiple xenos languages, which included a number of dialects of the Eldar tongue as well as the proto-speech of guttural barks and grunts that comprised the Ork language. Perturabo's methodology or the bitter drive behind his exacting preferences. The need to be better, the urge to prove his worth beyond taking the metal to the stone. Perturabo was a craftsman, and to be worthy of the appellation, every piece of work that bore his name must be judged for as long as it stood. His legacy was to leave no undertaking unfinished. Every task was approached as though it might be his last. Perturabo was also known to be an honourable warrior, who believed in the ancient martial traditions of his homeworld of Olympia. When the people of Olympia rebelled against the rule of the Iron Warriors, Perturabo's anger was terrible to behold. In the aftermath of his genocidal vengeance, Perturabo knew utter despair, barely able to comprehend the crimes he had committed in his rage.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/06 22:10:05
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 22:41:09
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
Magnus did nothing wrong.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 22:56:03
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Trazyn's Museum Curator
|
Ordana wrote:Magnus, a good guy that get sentenced to death for telling his dad that one of his brothers is going to rebel.
Didn't he break the eternity gate and ended up flooding the Imperial Palace with demons in doing so? I think the Emperor had a good reason to be pissed off at Magnus. I'm pretty sure the Emperor ordered Russ to arrest Magnus too, but then Russ was tricked into thinking that the Emperor wanted Magnus dead. I think it was Horus or Lorgar who did it.
|
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 23:18:25
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
|
The Road to hell is paved with good intentions, magnus's problem was he was tap dancing down the road wearing a blind fold, he did so much wrong even before he breached the webway, he just did not see it as wrong.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 23:23:59
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes
|
Magnus wasn't misunderstood, he was arrogant and for all of his intelligence was willfully ignorant. You see as much in his interactions with the other Primarchs, particularly Sanguinius and the Khan when they create the Librarius (which Magnus didnt think they needed).
That Perturabo was misunderstood was his own fault as much as it was his brothers. He never tried to put himself out there for them to interact with, and was surprised when they never bothered to learn more about him He willingly chose his fate.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 23:25:50
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Trazyn's Museum Curator
|
Konrad Kurz was more misunderstood than Perturbo and Magnus. And he's a murderhobo.
|
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 23:35:03
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Out of the universe it's got to be Russ. People keep hating and calling him a hypocrite when really he's just wrong. Granted he is a giant jerk to people but he's not as bad as people make out. Just about.
In universe it's Angron IMO. He just wanted a feeling of brotherhood back and to get back what the Emperor took from him. But people just saw the monster side which every Primarch has.
|
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/06 23:39:01
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
|
They were all pretty misunderstood. That's what makes the HH series so interesting, for me at least.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/07 11:22:06
Subject: Re:Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Talizvar wrote:Perturabo (Iron Warriors)
From my own point of view he was the most "human" of them.
He strived for doing and being the best, expected his actions to speak for themselves and his brothers were too blinded by conceit and ambition to notice.
Perturabo was a grim warrior and master of technological arcana who wielded logic and the mathematics of warfare as keenly as he did a blade and Bolter...
...The Lord of Iron was taciturn to the point of insult, preferring to harbour his thoughts against the threat of treachery, even amongst his kin.
Few would call him friend, but none could fault his ability to wage a campaign and plot the most direct course to victory.
His word was as unbreakable as iron.
His friendship was not easily achieved, but his loyalty, once won, was as unbreakable as the hardest iron.
Perturabo's capacity for learning was truly incredible, and it swiftly came to be said that of all of the Emperor's sons, he was the most gifted in terms of raw scientific and technical intelligence.
Overdog Mashogg's vast orbital fortifications had previously repulsed attack after attack from both the Space Wolves and the White Scars Legions. Perturabo, whose plan succeeded at last in breaking the line and allowing for the Orks slaughter is recorded in the contemporary chronicles of his brother-Legions only as a nameless "comrade-in-arms."
One often-cited example was the Iron Keep on Delgas II, where a single Tactical Squad of ten Iron Warriors was stationed, despite the world having a disgruntled population of almost 130 million people. Where other Primarchs like Leman Russ, Vulkan and Magnus the Red refused to split their forces, Perturabo obeyed his orders with increasing bitterness. The Iron Warriors were being turned into a garrison Legion, with tiny deployments all over the Imperium. The Iron Warriors' indisputable success in siege warfare led to them being "typecast" so that they became the automatic choice for any siege or garrison mission, ignoring the basic needs of all the Legion's Astartes for rest and reorganisation.
Many who view the matter with enough dispassion see, rightly or wrongly, a Legion eroded by too much horror, too much attrition and death in the service of a cause to which they went unheralded and unthanked.
"A name to lodge in the hearts of all who hear it."
— Primarch Perturabo, after permanently coining the name for the Eye of Terror on the stellar astropathic charts.
"You don't know the things I dream. No one does, no one ever cared enough to find out."
— Primarch Perturabo speaking to Fulgrim
His inner sanctum contained a superb collection of precisely reconstructed stonework, multiple murals and painted works of art as well as hundreds of rolled parchments containing architectural wonders of his own design. Immense drawing desks bore architectural plans for grand pavilions, magnificent amphitheatres, complex industrial infrastructures, vast hives of habitation, impregnable citadels and ornate palaces to rival that of the mountain fastness of the Emperor Himself.
The Lord of Iron was also able to speak multiple xenos languages, which included a number of dialects of the Eldar tongue as well as the proto-speech of guttural barks and grunts that comprised the Ork language.
Perturabo's methodology or the bitter drive behind his exacting preferences. The need to be better, the urge to prove his worth beyond taking the metal to the stone. Perturabo was a craftsman, and to be worthy of the appellation, every piece of work that bore his name must be judged for as long as it stood. His legacy was to leave no undertaking unfinished. Every task was approached as though it might be his last.
Perturabo was also known to be an honourable warrior, who believed in the ancient martial traditions of his homeworld of Olympia.
When the people of Olympia rebelled against the rule of the Iron Warriors, Perturabo's anger was terrible to behold. In the aftermath of his genocidal vengeance, Perturabo knew utter despair, barely able to comprehend the crimes he had committed in his rage.
Perturabo is indeed a poor soul. Very much underrated and misunderstood. Automatically Appended Next Post: CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ordana wrote:Magnus, a good guy that get sentenced to death for telling his dad that one of his brothers is going to rebel.
Didn't he break the eternity gate and ended up flooding the Imperial Palace with demons in doing so? I think the Emperor had a good reason to be pissed off at Magnus. I'm pretty sure the Emperor ordered Russ to arrest Magnus too, but then Russ was tricked into thinking that the Emperor wanted Magnus dead. I think it was Horus or Lorgar who did it.
Horus tricked Russ into purging the Legion.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/07 11:23:43
Welcome to clown town. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/07 11:49:50
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Russ was the Emperors executioner send to deal with Magnus one way or another.
Russ tried to reason with Magnus before he arrived (Prospero Burns I believe) and was accompanied by the likes of Constantine Valdor.
The TS legion was not going to surrender, even if Magnus had no desire to fight so the ground war was always going to happen, when Russ got to Magnus's pyramid Magnus decided to resist and you don't really subdue a Primarch, especially a sorcerer like Magnus.
The notion that Russ did something not sanctioned by the Emperor doesn't make sense, nor the idea that Horus somehow made the events play out differently.
The moment the Emperor dispatched Russ to Propspero there was only 1 way this was going to end.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/07 16:27:49
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Ordana wrote:Russ was the Emperors executioner send to deal with Magnus one way or another.
Russ tried to reason with Magnus before he arrived (Prospero Burns I believe) and was accompanied by the likes of Constantine Valdor.
The TS legion was not going to surrender, even if Magnus had no desire to fight so the ground war was always going to happen, when Russ got to Magnus's pyramid Magnus decided to resist and you don't really subdue a Primarch, especially a sorcerer like Magnus.
The notion that Russ did something not sanctioned by the Emperor doesn't make sense, nor the idea that Horus somehow made the events play out differently.
The moment the Emperor dispatched Russ to Propspero there was only 1 way this was going to end.
Due to Russ mistaking how to send the message Magnus never heard Russ's offer. Later novels show he deeply regrets what had happened and wished it had gone another way. Horus changed it from show up and ask him to come peacefully to kill them all.
When Russ heard silence back from his pleas for Magnus to give up ahead of his arrival, yea he leaned in on his purpose and scoured the planet. The blame of that is still on Horus. If the wolves showed up didn't attack and asked Magnus to come with us he would have and I don't see his sons fighting that.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/08 07:46:06
Subject: Re:Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Due to Russ mistaking how to send the message Magnus never heard Russ's offer. Later novels show he deeply regrets what had happened and wished it had gone another way. Horus changed it from show up and ask him to come peacefully to kill them all.
When Russ heard silence back from his pleas for Magnus to give up ahead of his arrival, yea he leaned in on his purpose and scoured the planet. The blame of that is still on Horus. If the wolves showed up didn't attack and asked Magnus to come with us he would have and I don't see his sons fighting that.
That is pretty much exactly what happened save for the bit about Horus. Russ Showed up, said hey you made dad mad. He wants you to come to Terra with me. Magnus had his head stuck in the sand because he knew that he had screwed up badly, refused to answer. In fact he specifically refused to help defend Prospero initially, and put a psychic veil on the planet so the rest of the Thousand Sons would not see the Space Wolves Fleet. Remember also that the Emperor's exact words upon having Magnus destroy his imperial webway project were:
"They are sorely misguided if they think the Warp has the power to overcome my Will. My vengeance shall haunt them across all of time and they shall never know peace. They have earned themselves only eternal damnation."
That surely sounds like he was in the mood to just give Magnus a slap on the wrist.
Horus claimed to have changed the Orders. But the Emperor Sent his executioner for a reason. Though it is never blatantly said (because GW want to leave the players space to make their own stories) its heavily hinted at that Russ and the Wolves had excised the two missing legions.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/09 05:57:03
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
|
Out of universe, either Perturabo or Fulgrim. People seem to have a LOT of misconceptions about both and if you tell them otherwise they will happily dismiss canon to keep up with what they want to believe. It's actually kinda cringy.
In-universe It's gotta be Angron. Everyone always assumes every decision he made was just irrational anger, but when we see the same events from his side we see lucidity and motivation, emotion but not just berserk rage. Lord of the Red Sands is a great short story that displays some of this, but really it's a running theme of the character.
Lorgar is also often misunderstood, highly deceptively so. He's a very strong contender for #1.
I guess Alpharius and Omegon playing secret agents could fit the bill too, but that seems just a deliberate lack of any information given that could allow anyone to build an understanding, rather than a misunderstanding
|
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/09 16:19:50
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
|
I have to agree with Angron. Without the nails, he might have become a better Guilliman. In his conversation with Russ, I loved it when he said that he might otherwise have gone to Terra and killed the Emperor for being such a tyrant (which he was). Unfortunately, the nails destroyed his sanity and made him an easily irritable berserker.
BTW, I know that in his daemon form, he still has the nails, but they don't really bother him due to his single-minded Khornate propensity for blood and skulls. Since daemons are immortal, could he now have them safely removed?
Formosa wrote:The Road to hell is paved with good intentions, magnus's problem was he was tap dancing down the road wearing a blind fold, he did so much wrong even before he breached the webway, he just did not see it as wrong.
Exactly. Magnus and his soldiers were chatting it up with Lords of Change and other daemons long before the Heresy, completely oblivious to what they were and how they were simply using him to further Tzeentch's plans. He was literally bringing Chaos teachings into the mainstream of the Imperium's knowledge pool about psychics and the Warp.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/09 17:38:20
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
ArcaneHorror wrote:I have to agree with Angron. Without the nails, he might have become a better Guilliman. In his conversation with Russ, I loved it when he said that he might otherwise have gone to Terra and killed the Emperor for being such a tyrant (which he was). Unfortunately, the nails destroyed his sanity and made him an easily irritable berserker.
BTW, I know that in his daemon form, he still has the nails, but they don't really bother him due to his single-minded Khornate propensity for blood and skulls. Since daemons are immortal, could he now have them safely removed?
Formosa wrote:The Road to hell is paved with good intentions, magnus's problem was he was tap dancing down the road wearing a blind fold, he did so much wrong even before he breached the webway, he just did not see it as wrong.
Exactly. Magnus and his soldiers were chatting it up with Lords of Change and other daemons long before the Heresy, completely oblivious to what they were and how they were simply using him to further Tzeentch's plans. He was literally bringing Chaos teachings into the mainstream of the Imperium's knowledge pool about psychics and the Warp.
Which makes you wonder why the Emperor never taught Magnus (or Lorgar) about Chaos and actually helped them understand the threat they pose to the Imperium rather then telling them not to look and trusting them to do so.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/09 18:26:10
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
|
Ordana wrote: ArcaneHorror wrote:I have to agree with Angron. Without the nails, he might have become a better Guilliman. In his conversation with Russ, I loved it when he said that he might otherwise have gone to Terra and killed the Emperor for being such a tyrant (which he was). Unfortunately, the nails destroyed his sanity and made him an easily irritable berserker.
BTW, I know that in his daemon form, he still has the nails, but they don't really bother him due to his single-minded Khornate propensity for blood and skulls. Since daemons are immortal, could he now have them safely removed?
Formosa wrote:The Road to hell is paved with good intentions, magnus's problem was he was tap dancing down the road wearing a blind fold, he did so much wrong even before he breached the webway, he just did not see it as wrong.
Exactly. Magnus and his soldiers were chatting it up with Lords of Change and other daemons long before the Heresy, completely oblivious to what they were and how they were simply using him to further Tzeentch's plans. He was literally bringing Chaos teachings into the mainstream of the Imperium's knowledge pool about psychics and the Warp.
Which makes you wonder why the Emperor never taught Magnus (or Lorgar) about Chaos and actually helped them understand the threat they pose to the Imperium rather then telling them not to look and trusting them to do so.
Yeah, the Emperor was way too cagey when it came to knowledge about Chaos. I can understand keeping Chaos a secret from the average citizenry, regular politicians, and the Army/Navy, except maybe for some the highest generals and admirals. But the Primarchs needed to know in order to successfully fight and resist Chaos. They knew about daemonic possession and that there were dangerous creatures in the Warp that needed to be fended off, but most of them just saw them as mindless beasts with no real beliefs or agendas (Loken I think was one of the first Marines who began to suspect a purpose in warpspawns' behavior after encountering Samus). Without any firm knowledge, the gods could feed the primarchs whatever the Primarchs wanted to hear and the Primarchs did not have any retorts based on knowledge (though Sanguinius was quick to realize how bad Chaos was in Fear to Tread, and even Horus was suspicious at first), and thus could easily play themselves up to be a better alternative to an Emperor that many of them had at least some kind of grudge against. To be fair, Lorgar had been raised in Chaos worship and was thus somewhat tainted from a very early age, but given his absolute reverence towards the Emperor, if the Emperor had been more forthcoming about the true nature of Chaos, the arguments from Erebus and Kor Phaeron might not have been nearly as effective as they were otherwise.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/10 14:03:58
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
ArcaneHorror wrote: Ordana wrote: ArcaneHorror wrote:I have to agree with Angron. Without the nails, he might have become a better Guilliman. In his conversation with Russ, I loved it when he said that he might otherwise have gone to Terra and killed the Emperor for being such a tyrant (which he was). Unfortunately, the nails destroyed his sanity and made him an easily irritable berserker.
BTW, I know that in his daemon form, he still has the nails, but they don't really bother him due to his single-minded Khornate propensity for blood and skulls. Since daemons are immortal, could he now have them safely removed?
Formosa wrote:The Road to hell is paved with good intentions, magnus's problem was he was tap dancing down the road wearing a blind fold, he did so much wrong even before he breached the webway, he just did not see it as wrong.
Exactly. Magnus and his soldiers were chatting it up with Lords of Change and other daemons long before the Heresy, completely oblivious to what they were and how they were simply using him to further Tzeentch's plans. He was literally bringing Chaos teachings into the mainstream of the Imperium's knowledge pool about psychics and the Warp.
Which makes you wonder why the Emperor never taught Magnus (or Lorgar) about Chaos and actually helped them understand the threat they pose to the Imperium rather then telling them not to look and trusting them to do so.
Yeah, the Emperor was way too cagey when it came to knowledge about Chaos. I can understand keeping Chaos a secret from the average citizenry, regular politicians, and the Army/Navy, except maybe for some the highest generals and admirals. But the Primarchs needed to know in order to successfully fight and resist Chaos. They knew about daemonic possession and that there were dangerous creatures in the Warp that needed to be fended off, but most of them just saw them as mindless beasts with no real beliefs or agendas (Loken I think was one of the first Marines who began to suspect a purpose in warpspawns' behavior after encountering Samus). Without any firm knowledge, the gods could feed the primarchs whatever the Primarchs wanted to hear and the Primarchs did not have any retorts based on knowledge (though Sanguinius was quick to realize how bad Chaos was in Fear to Tread, and even Horus was suspicious at first), and thus could easily play themselves up to be a better alternative to an Emperor that many of them had at least some kind of grudge against. To be fair, Lorgar had been raised in Chaos worship and was thus somewhat tainted from a very early age, but given his absolute reverence towards the Emperor, if the Emperor had been more forthcoming about the true nature of Chaos, the arguments from Erebus and Kor Phaeron might not have been nearly as effective as they were otherwise.
Because the Primarchs were not intended to be permanent. They were tools of war the same way Astartes were. Once they had served their purpose they were going to cull them the same way as they culled the Thunder Warriors.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/10 14:26:04
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
|
BaconCatBug wrote:Because the Primarchs were not intended to be permanent. They were tools of war the same way Astartes were. Once they had served their purpose they were going to cull them the same way as they culled the Thunder Warriors.
Seems very likely since the Custodes appeared to be the only approved tool of choice then and "now".
Guilliman may not have come up with limiting the SM numbers on his own: so they can be exterminated as needed.
Could we be seeing the Primaris absorbing and then later exterminating the stragglers of the old SM's?
I always felt the Primarchs represent living aspects of the Ermperor's mind, given life into the universe to then see how they do: a dangerous indulgence but still a tool and extension of himself.
Seems funny how hard things went with Magnus when he seemed so much like the Emperor in trying to harness everything around him.
Science Fiction = Hubris clobbered by Nemesis.
This discussion is oddly more fun than most.
|
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/06/11 00:15:38
Subject: Misunderstood Primarchs
|
 |
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
|
Talizvar wrote:
Could we be seeing the Primaris absorbing and then later exterminating the stragglers of the old SM's?
I really don't see Guilliman doing that to his loyal sons, unless there was some in-built Manchurian Candidate programming inside his brain which he could not resist (and he would resist as hard as he could). Given how much the 40k Guilliman is not a big fan of the emperor, I doubt he'd do something like that at all willingly.
|
|
 |
 |
|