Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I recently played against a list of chaos decimators buffed by a lord discordant, which was a deeply traumatic experience. The wording of the decimator's soulburner petard goes like this. "Each successful hit roll made with this weapon inflicts a mortal wound instead of the normal damage. If any hit roll made in a given phase results in a score of a '1', then the firing unit suffers 1 mortal wound. This effect can only occur once per phase regardless of how many results of 1 are rolled."

Now a Decimator with soulburner petards is 210 points, so unpleasant. The thing is, the Lord Discordant adds 1 to hit rolls for all DAEMON ENGINE units around him, so now he has BS 2+ mortal wound machines (double soulburner petards put out 4D3 shots), rerolling ones because of another character, with no chance of taking mortal wounds from their guns. For about 1000 points you can have a lord discordant and 4 Decimators, which put out 16D3 mortal wounds per turn, and you can still have space left in your army! My Custodes lasted 2 turns, and another guy's Harlequins were slaughtered beyond all hope of winning in the first turn. It was pretty epic, but not fair at all, and we all concluded that no one would ever play that list ever ever ever ever ever again on pain of being That Guy. Has anyone else out there played or played against this list, and if you beat it, how?

Going of vague memory isn't the range 18 inches on a 6-8 inch move model? Try and stay back and shoot them to death. Also I would assume they can't be taken in squadrons so rule of 3 would cap them to 3.

Gun range is 24", and move is 10". No gun should do MW when simply hitting, its very bad design. This gun should be removed from the game.

Shoot the decimators with your gun, they are basically hellbrutes with a 5++ and no legion traits, they are not that tough

If the decimators move they are getting a -1 to hit penalty

Any competent shooty army can reliably melt 2 decimators a turn

 Continuity wrote:

If the decimators move they are getting a -1 to hit penalty

No, soulburners are assault weapons.

This thread is unfortunate and likely a complete disaster. We are going to focus on discussing a unit that 'likely' is not broken. Since vigilus came out there have been 0 decimators in any top list for any tournament (ETC or ITC - even top 8). The focus of this discussion should likely be more on -

What rule set are you using?
How competitive are the armies you brought?
How experienced of a player on 8th edition?
-The fact you suggested 4 of the unit is the reason I ask and a sample size of 2 with relatively uncompetitive armies in potentially inexperienced hands would be a poor basis for further discussion.

My sentiment - having used 3 decimators a few times - is that not benefiting from legion trait is crippling and they are very very squishy against any decent shooty army. Try running them into a full tau or gunline army popping relic of lost acadia and all 3 will die first turn 14/15 times. Suddenly you are just down 600+ points.
- Or alternatively if you are that concerned just kill the Lord Discordant (although most lists I've seen run 3 of them)

 Continuity wrote:
Shoot the decimators with your gun, they are basically hellbrutes with a 5++ and no legion traits, they are not that tough

If the decimators move they are getting a -1 to hit penalty

Any competent shooty army can reliably melt 2 decimators a turn

Yeah, those Decimators will just die to a Castellan Knight, they will also die incredibly quick to Aeldari Flyer spam lists, but I think those are the only things that will surely melt two Decimators every turn.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Yeah, those Decimators will just die to a Castellan Knight, they will also die incredibly quick to Aeldari Flyer spam lists, but I think those are the only things that will surely melt two Decimators every turn.

The Shadowsword says hi.

Any competent Knights list would eat them alive. 3 Crusaders should easily be able to deploy out of the range of those things, then move in and blow 2 away.

Any Guard or Tau list should easily destroy them with tank commander or riptide fire.

They're a very high damage unit, with very poor survivability. Each one has what, 8 wounds? That's -nothing-. Especially when it has a 3+ save.

T7 W8 3+/5++ isn't all that tough, though. Most lists can shoot a couple of those off the table in a single round. We're not talking about needing a specialized anti-tank beast like a Porphyrion here, either. A handful of ML/LC/etc. shots will take one down (<8 total shots from a marine equivalent with no buffs at all), and they'll melt against anyone toting enough firepower to bring down a knight (of which even a normal sized one would have as many wounds as three decimators while being T8 and sporting a 4++ on top).

It just seems that your opponent found the two best case scenarios for his decimators, as both Custodes and Harlequins are extremely expensive, low wound count armies that rely on invulnerable saves to survive and do most of their damage at extremely close range. That match up is always going to be more than a little one sided.

You guys talk like three decimators and a lord discordant are the only units in a list, its only ~800 pts.

I think they're just really squishy for their point and that's the big thing here. They are also vulnerable to being locked up by any fast movers. I can for sure though seem them being an absolute nightmare against elite armies though if there is not any terrain to use to hide in.

OP- you missed when decis were 150 each! That's when they were busted. Now? They're more like a one or two of assassins at best. I don't even use mine anymore honestly. They die like triple costed rhinos. I wish their MW were toned down and instead they received more wounds and more incentive to enter combat. Closer to a defiler but with fw signature one ups.

Kill the lord discordant first, they're insanely squishy.

SirGunslinger wrote:
My Custodes lasted 2 turns, and another guy's Harlequins were slaughtered beyond all hope of winning in the first turn. It was pretty epic, but not fair at all, and we all concluded that no one would ever play that list ever ever ever ever ever again on pain of being That Guy. Has anyone else out there played or played against this list, and if you beat it, how?

This is a very nice example of the rock/paper/scissors nature of certain matchups. Custodes and Harlequins are basically the most expensive points per wound sub factions of imperium and aeldari, and they both have a massive preference for close quarters fighting. This doesn't mean that soul burner decimators are super OP, just that trying to rush small melee units into accurate guns that don't care about your expensive 2+ armour/invulnerable saves is playing to your opponents strengths.

To stand any chance at beating the list would likely mean one of two plans:
1. Deploy deep and shoot them - they are not the toughest models and anything from an autocannon upwards will threaten them. This would only work if you have a faction with access to long range guns.
2. Deploy deep to coax them forwards then charge - decimators are not slow, so they could rush forwards to get into gun range, but they would leave any screens behind. This would only work if you have a unit that can reliably charge from deepstrike or are very fast.

Both of the above options would really mean taking allies for custodes although I guess harlequins can use the speedy option 2.

Custodes really need forgeworld stuff.

The Caladius tank is designed to hard counter stuff like this. Keep your infantry back, let the Caladius kill the Decimators, then send in the infantry.

I’ve got 9 decimators before the rule of 3 and subsequent points increase.
Managed to play only one game with them, daemon prince of tzeentch and changeling and several brimstone units for objectives and CP.

While the experience was peculiar, the list is a one-trick pony, and have many layers of potential failures:
Very unpredictable damage
Low range
Lockable in combat with low hth damage
Cannot kill hoard armies
Bad board control and adaptivity

I was aiming to add couple more decimators with c-beams or butcher cannons, but nerfs happened.

At 210pts I find decimators to be useless.
Three of them hardly overwhelm you with MW.
For reliable MW spam bring 1k psykers: slightly lesser average yield per turn, but same range and greater survivability.

Also, did you know you can easily assemble them like that?


My friends almost choked themself laughing, when they first saw this guy.

Original Poster, you really need to take a step back, zoom out, and consider things from a broader perspective.

This experience against the Decimators has given you tunnel vision, which has made you jump to a false conclusion that they are overpowered.

The Decimators are actually highly overcosted for their pitiful survivability and many glaring weaknesses.

Deploying out of range or out of LoS would really limit the amount of damage they do if you don't go first.

As a Custodes player, you could have just as easily gone first and destroyed all of the Decimators with your three Caladius Grav Tanks accelerator autocannons from 60 inches away hitting on 2+ rerollable and then the Chaos player would think your army is broken.

Edit : Just a side note, the Caladius is also 210 points just like the Soulburner Decimator. Guess which one is better in pretty much every way?

Frankly he could've been unlucky and run into Butcher AC ones.
But that has to do more with the butcher ac beeing actually a good weapon and less with the decimator beeing to good.

(Altough it is the one Daemon engine with 3+)