Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So a syndrome I have encountered a lot with deep striking units with characters is that either the character makes the charge or the squad does, the issue is that it does not look so great when the character is standing behind shouting orders because of a failed charge. So I propose a rule to let character within 2" of a unit to "Tag along" on a charge, if they make it he moves as a member of the squad, if not neither can charge again that turn. Only the special rules of the squad applies, not the character (ignoring overwatch, extra move, reroll charges) and all overwatch hits must be taken on the unit.
This only applies to infantry.

Now this could be exploited to let the infantry squad eat the overwatch but the drawback is that you only get one try.

This could also be applied to advance rolls to make sure the character keeps up with the squad.

So I'm gonna try it this weekend and see what effect it has.

marvin5 wrote:
So a syndrome I have encountered a lot with deep striking units with characters is that either the character makes the charge or the squad does, the issue is that it does not look so great when the character is standing behind shouting orders because of a failed charge. So I propose a rule to let character within 2" of a unit to "Tag along" on a charge, if they make it he moves as a member of the squad, if not neither can charge again that turn. Only the special rules of the squad applies, not the character (ignoring overwatch, extra move, reroll charges) and all overwatch hits must be taken on the unit.
This only applies to infantry.

Now this could be exploited to let the infantry squad eat the overwatch but the drawback is that you only get one try.

This could also be applied to advance rolls to make sure the character keeps up with the squad.

So I'm gonna try it this weekend and see what effect it has.

This is something that feels really awkward as a Blood Angels player and I hope they fix it with something like this. I can deepstrike with a bunch of characters and units but only 1 captain has a reroll to charge from his relic. One unit I can give an extra D6 on charge distance and I can use a normal CP reroll on one dice but this still doesn't give me great odds and this is without mentioning my other units and characters. And unlike long forgotten editions I can't just DS and wait another turn to move since I barely survive overwatch as it is and giving them another whole turn to kill my overpriced models is not a good idea.

Having to rely on 6 inch auras from characters to do everyting also makes this even worse. DS with captain, sanguinor and a melee unit and having only the captain make the charge and then he looks back at sanguinor asking "Why the heck are you staying back there and buffing those guys and not me?!!!". Gets really awkward in the battle barge on the way back to base after that! Funnily enough my support ancient with his FnP banner is the best charger in my list so I'm giving him a Thunder Hammer so he can at least do some damage while he charges past the guys he is supporting. Even being an extra inch away doesnt stop him from rolling 11 or 12 on all his charges.

Seems like a reasonable way to handle things. Outpacing your support character's buff aura is definitely the most common/annoying version of this.

I can think of a couple niche situations that you'd probably want to address. For instance, my howling banshees can charge after advancing AND they can charge units up to 15" away. My bike autarch that just advanced within 2" of them probably shouldn't be allowed to benefit from either of those rules just by standing nearby.

Characters attaching to units so they can charge seems like a workable idea.It would need a little fleshing out, and I'm sure like most rule changes would have some unforeseen consequences. But I do agree that one of the most irritating aspects of random charges is the squad making the charge and the character getting left behind or vice versa.

Perhaps introducing a mechanic similar to heroic intervention where a character within 3" of a unit that declares a charge can join the charge and once in melee reverts to acting as separate unit again? I'd suggest that some limits be put on this, for example only when the character and the squad share <chapter>, <clan> etc keywords, and are INFANTRY or something?

Personally I dislike random charge distance and auras, and changing how these work would also solve this problem.

EDIT:
Perhaps a rule to only allow specific types of characters to join with their squad counterparts - only exarchs from the same aspect as a unit of aspect warriors, only characters in terminator armour can join a squad of terminators, only a fly/jump-pack character can join a squad with jump-packs when charging etc.

Joint Charge
After you make a charge roll in your Charge phase, but before moving the charging unit, any of your CHARACTERS within 3" of the charging unit may perform a Joint Charge. Any that do so can move as though they were part of the charging unit, and are considered to have charged for all purposes. A CHARACTER cannot perform a Joint Charge if it has a Wounds characteristic of 10 or more, or if it could not normally be selected to make a charge (e.g. if it Fell Back this turn, started the Charge phase within 1" of an enemy model, or already attempted to charge in this Charge phase).

This is a house rule that's been in use with my group since the new edition came around - the only problems we've run into are:

Charge bonuses. Since the characters move "as though they were part of the charging unit", you can have a Sorcerer tag along with Tzaangors and effectively get a 2D6+1 charge move. Not a massive problem, though, since most charge bonuses are pretty slim anyway.

Timing and reliability. Since this happens after you roll the charge distance, it's entirely possible to declare a charge, see it fail, not use this rule, and then declare a charge anyway with your beatstick character to get a second shot at combat (this is the origin of the "no monstrous characters" restriction). Or you can technically line up multiple charging units and take your pick of the "winning" roll. This is a problem you can fix just by moving the timing back to "after Overwatch, but before the roll". The only reason we haven't is that we've tried it and found it a bit unsatisfying to hinge multiple units on a single charge roll.

Daisy-chaining characters. A character declares a charge, another character within 3" does a Joint Charge, another character within 3" does a Joint Charge with him, and so on. This is why the wording's specific about "moving as though they were part of the charging unit" - each character doesn't actually extend the range of the Joint Charge bubble - but you can still declare Joint Charges with other characters. This can look a little silly, but we haven't bothered to address it because it doesn't seem to be a problem.

RevlidRas wrote:

Joint Charge
After you make a charge roll in your Charge phase, but before moving the charging unit, any of your CHARACTERS within 3" of the charging unit may perform a Joint Charge. Any that do so can move as though they were part of the charging unit, and are considered to have charged for all purposes. A CHARACTER cannot perform a Joint Charge if it has a Wounds characteristic of 10 or more, or if it could not normally be selected to make a charge (e.g. if it Fell Back this turn, started the Charge phase within 1" of an enemy model, or already attempted to charge in this Charge phase).

This is a house rule that's been in use with my group since the new edition came around - the only problems we've run into are:

Charge bonuses. Since the characters move "as though they were part of the charging unit", you can have a Sorcerer tag along with Tzaangors and effectively get a 2D6+1 charge move. Not a massive problem, though, since most charge bonuses are pretty slim anyway.

Timing and reliability. Since this happens after you roll the charge distance, it's entirely possible to declare a charge, see it fail, not use this rule, and then declare a charge anyway with your beatstick character to get a second shot at combat (this is the origin of the "no monstrous characters" restriction). Or you can technically line up multiple charging units and take your pick of the "winning" roll. This is a problem you can fix just by moving the timing back to "after Overwatch, but before the roll". The only reason we haven't is that we've tried it and found it a bit unsatisfying to hinge multiple units on a single charge roll.

Daisy-chaining characters. A character declares a charge, another character within 3" does a Joint Charge, another character within 3" does a Joint Charge with him, and so on. This is why the wording's specific about "moving as though they were part of the charging unit" - each character doesn't actually extend the range of the Joint Charge bubble - but you can still declare Joint Charges with other characters. This can look a little silly, but we haven't bothered to address it because it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I quite like this. How do you resolve overwatch in these situations? does the character get targeted separately from the squad or is the character protected from overwatch by being considered part of the unit when charging? Are there any other fringe cases that have caused issues or weird interactions? Warlord traits to ignore overwatch/ability to re-roll charges etc?

I think it would be workable with a few restrictions.

1) Only one unit with the Character key word can join another unit without the Character key word (so no Daisy chaining).

2) The Character must be able to make the charge anyway (eg must be in range)

3) The Charge roll is made at the slowest model. Eg the unit can charge 3D6, but the charcter can only charge 2D6 then both can only charge 2D6. The same apply to any modifiers.

4) All links must be declared before any charge rolls are made.

5) All over watch hits go against the non Character unit first. This gives the Character some protection but does not make them immune to overwhelming fire.

Aash wrote:
I quite like this. How do you resolve overwatch in these situations? does the character get targeted separately from the squad or is the character protected from overwatch by being considered part of the unit when charging?

The latter. That's the RAW, and after discussion we realized that a character who charged immediately after another unit "normally" wouldn't eat Overwatch anyway, because the target unit would already be tied up in combat.

Aash wrote:
Are there any other fringe cases that have caused issues or weird interactions? Warlord traits to ignore overwatch/ability to re-roll charges etc?

Ability to re-roll charges comes under the "Charge bonuses" bullet point, and mostly we're fine with just handwaving it. Charge bonuses are relatively rare in this edition, and most of them are universal across the whole army (Orks, Behemoth, Khorne Daemons), or a relatively small +1 (Brayhorn, Adrenal Glands), and none of them allow for a charge beyond the range the character could already make. Even abilities that allow for charge-and-advance or charge-and-fall-back are covered by the "cannot a perform a Joint Charge if it could not normally be selected to make a charge" rule.

None of us play Raven Guard, so we've not run into the Overwatch issue; I suspect the simplest fix would be to let it act as a once-per-charge-phase "aura".

The main point of contention is actually theoretical, which is why I didn't list it above. Namely, having a massive blob (of Orks or Tyranids, most likely) which stretches across a massive swathe of board and can drag in loads of characters within 3" to join in the charge, even if they have no hope of actually making it. This hasn't happened because it's a dick move, but the current consensus is that we probably ought to change the wording to "if it could not normally declare a charge against at least one of the target units (e.g. if it Fell Back this turn, started the Charge phase within 1" of an enemy model, already attempted to charge in this Charge phase, or is not within 12" of any of the target units)."