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Stealth Suit Shas'vre /w Target lock, Burst Cannon and Markerlight
Pathfinder Gunners /w Rail Rifle x3
MB3 Recon Drone
MV1 Gun Drone x5

This is a list I found online and I really think Im gravitating towards that. 99 pts. I was curious what you all thought about it and if I should pursue this list and buy the team or go a different route. I believe the strategy is to cover for the 3 rail rifles while they blow holes in the team. I do have a few questions tho...

1. Buying and purchasing this list... a box of Stealth for the one suit, a box of pathfinders will get me my Recon Drone and I BELIEVE you get 3 rail rifles, can someone confirm? How do I get my gun drones? My pathfinder box will get me one... Ill need 4 more.

2. Gun drones, they have 2 guns. Do they make separate attack rolls with each?

3. Target lock... I suppose I need to first better understand two rules. Advancing and Assault Weapons. I was under the impression that if you advance, you cannot shoot any weapon, correct? And target lock allows you to still fire an assault weapon? And for assault weapons, I was to understand that if you move, you have a -1 to your hit roll, and target lock removes that?

1. You get two drones plus recon drone in the pathfinders. You can buy gun drones from GW. There are three rail rifles in the box.

2. All models with multiple guns shoot one gun at a time until they've all shot.

3. Assault weapons can move and fire without penalty. They can advance and fire with a -1. A target lock lets you advance and fire an asault weapon without the -1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW - build three suits, one with fusion (not leader), one with burst (not leader) and one with burst.

Build your pathfinders as 3x rail rifle, 3x ion rifle, one leader and 3 regular guys.

Remember that KT is about rosters, not lists. You choose your list from your roster after you know the enemy faction and the mission.

You'll want to change up weapons depending, you'll want to be able to hold back an inexpensive leader, you'll want to be able to take more suits. For some missions and terrain an all flying team is a huge advantage. Drones are much less good in missions with doors. Etc. A good set of tools in your toolbox is much more important than a single good list.

Consider some shield drones. I have found them to be very strong in kill team for defending the suits and pathfinders.

I appreciate the responses!

I have another rule question that I cant quite seem to find the answer to. When I was looking up this list, they said something about the drones being able to apply two injury rolls. I didnt understand, because I thought however many wounds you applied, was how many injuries you would inflict as well.

So for example, if all 4 shots landed, wounded and they didnt save their armor, they would need to make 4 injury rolls, correct?

Additionally, a SS has 2 wounds, do you make the injury roll on only your last wound?

gnarkill wrote:
I appreciate the responses!

I have another rule question that I cant quite seem to find the answer to. When I was looking up this list, they said something about the drones being able to apply two injury rolls. I didnt understand, because I thought however many wounds you applied, was how many injuries you would inflict as well.

So for example, if all 4 shots landed, wounded and they didnt save their armor, they would need to make 4 injury rolls, correct?

Additionally, a SS has 2 wounds, do you make the injury roll on only your last wound?

Ok. so.

If I shoot you with a gun drone. it has 2 pulse carbines, numbering 4 shots total. Let's say I get really lucky and all 4 shots go through, you get to roll 4 armor saves. each failed save deals 1 damage. the second the health of your model drops to 0. all of the other shots are discarded and you roll 1 injury roll.

now let's say I shoot you with a rail rifle, it fires 2 shots, once again I get lucky and they all go through, each shot deals d3 damage. You once again get to roll an armor save, but oops, the rail rifle has ap-3 and that means you can't physically pass an armor save. so we roll damage for the first shot. wouldn't you know it? I rolled a 6, this shot will now deal 3 damage to your model. however, your model only has 1 health. So the second shot is ignored, and now I will roll 3 injury rolls for your model and take the worst result. A key detail here is that I get to roll the injury roll so you can't use your reroll stratagem on it.

For models with multiple wounds, you won't roll an injury roll until it hits 0 wounds.

Tau drones have an ability that lets them take 1 mortal wound in place of the original target (your pathfinder or stealth suit) taking an attack. However mortal wounds don't give you an armor save, meaning the drone will go straight to an injury roll. Shield Drones specifically have an ability where they can roll a die and on 5+ ignore the mortal wound, then if they fail, still have a chance to survive on the injury roll. This is useful against my rail rifle from earlier because instead of a near-guaranteed dead stealth suit from 3 damage, no save, and 3 injury rolls. Your shield drone has 2 chances to pass with his 5+ ignore, and his 1 injury roll that you get to use the reroll stratagem on.

Does that make sense?

Nope. Once you get a model to zero wounds any attacks already allocated are discarded and then you make your injury roll. Now, order of operations here is important.

Scenario 1 - you have a gun that fires four shots. You allocate all of your shots before you start rolling to hit - all to one target. You hit, wound, target fails save for each attack in turn. As soon as he's at zero wounds then you throw away the outstanding ones. One injury roll (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapon's damage).

Scenario 2 - you have two guns with two shot each. You pick a gun and allocate it's hits. You start rolling for the first gun's attacks - again throw away any left once the target gets to zero wounds and make one injury roll (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapon's damage). Then you proceed to the second gun. If you have multiple guns then multiple injury rolls against a model is possible. If you have mulitple multi-shot weapons then you could make multiple injury rolls against multiple models (example - tau battlesuit with three CIBs with three shots each. If you split your first gun one shot each to three targets you might get three injury rolls (one each). Then you could do that again and again for three injury rolls each on three targets. If you shot the first gun at one, second gun at next, etc. then you'd only get one injury roll each against the three targets.)

Scenario 3 - you have two melee weapons. You split your attacks between your weapons and allocate all of them before you start rolling. (you should be able to see where this is going). You can only ever make one injury roll per opponent in melee (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapons' damage)

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Nope. Once you get a model to zero wounds any attacks already allocated are discarded and then you make your injury roll. Now, order of operations here is important.

Scenario 1 - you have a gun that fires four shots. You allocate all of your shots before you start rolling to hit - all to one target. You hit, wound, target fails save for each attack in turn. As soon as he's at zero wounds then you throw away the outstanding ones. One injury roll (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapon's damage).

Scenario 2 - you have two guns with two shot each. You pick a gun and allocate it's hits. You start rolling for the first gun's attacks - again throw away any left once the target gets to zero wounds and make one injury roll (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapon's damage). Then you proceed to the second gun. If you have multiple guns then multiple injury rolls against a model is possible. If you have mulitple multi-shot weapons then you could make multiple injury rolls against multiple models (example - tau battlesuit with three CIBs with three shots each. If you split your first gun one shot each to three targets you might get three injury rolls (one each). Then you could do that again and again for three injury rolls each on three targets. If you shot the first gun at one, second gun at next, etc. then you'd only get one injury roll each against the three targets.)

Scenario 3 - you have two melee weapons. You split your attacks between your weapons and allocate all of them before you start rolling. (you should be able to see where this is going). You can only ever make one injury roll per opponent in melee (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapons' damage)

This was sooooo incredibly helpful! This is what weve been doing wrong!

So in scenario 3, Tyranid warrior with rending claws and boneswords, lets say I get one wound with each, and they both go thru armor.... youre saying there is only one injury roll made even tho they are two different weapons because of melee. Correct?

While Im at it with silly questions...

1. Rapid fire, you can move and shoot, no consequence. And it cannot do overwatch.
2. Assault can overwatch, can move with no consequence, and is the only gun that will allow you to advance and still shoot?
3. Heavy, you move and you take a -1

Are these correct?

Yes, on melee you must allocate all attacks for all weapons so they're all lost once the target hits zero wounds whereas in shooting you allocate all attacks from the first gun, resolve them, then next gun.

1 Rapid fire has no penalty for moving. You can overwatch and you do get the second shot if the enemy model is close enough when you react.

2 Correct

3 Yes. And you can overwatch.

I'm not sure where you think the overwatch restriction is coming from - all shooting weapons can fire overwatch.

gnarkill wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Nope. Once you get a model to zero wounds any attacks already allocated are discarded and then you make your injury roll. Now, order of operations here is important.

Scenario 1 - you have a gun that fires four shots. You allocate all of your shots before you start rolling to hit - all to one target. You hit, wound, target fails save for each attack in turn. As soon as he's at zero wounds then you throw away the outstanding ones. One injury roll (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapon's damage).

Scenario 2 - you have two guns with two shot each. You pick a gun and allocate it's hits. You start rolling for the first gun's attacks - again throw away any left once the target gets to zero wounds and make one injury roll (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapon's damage). Then you proceed to the second gun. If you have multiple guns then multiple injury rolls against a model is possible. If you have mulitple multi-shot weapons then you could make multiple injury rolls against multiple models (example - tau battlesuit with three CIBs with three shots each. If you split your first gun one shot each to three targets you might get three injury rolls (one each). Then you could do that again and again for three injury rolls each on three targets. If you shot the first gun at one, second gun at next, etc. then you'd only get one injury roll each against the three targets.)

Scenario 3 - you have two melee weapons. You split your attacks between your weapons and allocate all of them before you start rolling. (you should be able to see where this is going). You can only ever make one injury roll per opponent in melee (possibly with several dice pick the highest, depends on the weapons' damage)

This was sooooo incredibly helpful! This is what weve been doing wrong!

So in scenario 3, Tyranid warrior with rending claws and boneswords, lets say I get one wound with each, and they both go thru armor.... youre saying there is only one injury roll made even tho they are two different weapons because of melee. Correct?

While Im at it with silly questions...

1. Rapid fire, you can move and shoot, no consequence. And it cannot do overwatch.
2. Assault can overwatch, can move with no consequence, and is the only gun that will allow you to advance and still shoot?
3. Heavy, you move and you take a -1

Are these correct?

1. As far as I'm aware every weapon can overwatch. Rapid fire weapons double their shots at half range
2. Assault weapons allow you to advance and still fire at a -1
3. this is correct.

This is probably my 2003 Tau playing days telling me this...

Rapid fire... you can move and still shoot at max range right?

Moving has no impact on rapid fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gnarkill wrote:

So in scenario 3, Tyranid warrior with rending claws and boneswords, lets say I get one wound with each, and they both go thru armor.... youre saying there is only one injury roll made even tho they are two different weapons because of melee. Correct?

Something that's important to note here. You allocate all of the attacks and then start rolling them in whatever order you want. If you start rolling the boneswords and get the target to zero wounds then you'll never roll the rending claws because those attacks are discarded.

I see people rolling everything and then cherry picking the order they want to apply damage to get the best injury roll. This is wrong. The rules on fast rolling are very specific - you can only fast roll attacks that are all the same and even then the target rolls saves one at a time, allocating damage as they go.

How is the markerlight represented on a stealth suit? Is it the markerlight drone that follows him around? What is that additional base thing for, that looks a gun?

Some more rule clarifying questions, because Scott, you've been so so helpful!

1. When a fall back takes place, couldnt they just be charged again, or blasted in the open field? I dont see the purpose in Fall Back.

2. Can you Retreat AND Overwatch?

3. Pile in, I dont 100% understand it. If I fail my charge roll, and I am 2" away, does that mean I can pile in 3"? Can anyone move 3" if that gets them into CC?

1. You can't charge if you started the turn within 1" of an enemy. "When you pick a model to move, if that model started the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy model, it cannot make a normal move. Instead, it can either remain stationary or Fall Back" P22 So a model that falls back can be shot but the guy they fell back from (who presumably is the one that's good in melee) can't charge them or anyone else that turn. Since melee guys are usually moving forwards agressively it's generally them that gets caught in the open and blasted. Especially if they had to move first - yu fall back and they're just left there in the open.

2. Nope "A model can either fire Overwatch or Retreat when it Reacts." P23

3. Nope, Pile-In is part of the fight sequence and only models within 1" of an enemy can be chosen in the fight phase. P34 Pile in is useful for two things - you can make room for more buddies to charge in next turn or you can circle round an opponent to make it much harder for him to fall back from you next turn. With three models and some pile-in circling you can prevent an enemy from falling back at all.

There's only one markerlight in the stealthsuit box and it's for the drone. There are loose markerlights in the pathfinder box - it's the bit that fits on top of their carbine.

Some more rule clarifying questions, because Scott, you've been so so helpful!

The invoice is in the mail.

Ill pay it good sir!

How then do I represent them on the stealth suit, just slap one on the gun? I believe I know what the target lock looks like!

And, back to the fallback... lets say a Tyranid Warrior and a stealth suit are engaged at the start of a movement phase, and the stealth suit falls back. Can the warrior move at all? Can he shoot? or is it simply he cannot charge anyone that round.

I'd shoulder mount, like predator but that's just me. On the gun would be the obvious spot if you really want one. Personally, I wouldn't bother. It stops him firing his other weapon (special rule for markerlight) and it's heavy so he really wants to remain stationary to use it. But it is a zero point upgrade so there's no downside to having it just in case.

The warrior has the same movement choices as the stealth suit - remain stationary or fall back.

Fall back prevents you from shooting. Unless you have fly. So the warrior can't fall back and shoot (he could remain stationary and shoot) but the stealthsuit can fall back and shoot. If he doesn't kill you in the first round of combat then you're either going to fall back to the other side of a big wall (using fly to ignore the vertical movement) or you're going to take a step back and give him a fusion blaster to the face (using fly to allow you to shoot after falling back). Fly is pretty dirty.

The markerlight on the stealth suit is taken alongside the target lock upgrade. So I just use the little support system bit to be my markerlight+target lock. No one has ever had a problem with this before.

Also in your example, according to my local nids player. That tyranid can't do anything after you fall back. what he usually does to avoid getting stuck standing in the open is stagger the charges so one nid falls back and another charges and locks my unit in position, unable to fall back.

With what we were just talking about, this is something that happened that I need help finding these rules in the rulebook.

DW w Hammer Charge a Pathfinder w Rail rifle. Standing very close to him were 2 other pathfinders.

DW whiffed and didnt do any damage.

Start of the next round, the pathfinder that was engaged fell back, and my understanding is that the DW guy is essentailly stuck out in the open. He cant charge anyone, and cannot re-charge the same guy.

Can you help me find the rules that say he cannot re-charge the same path finder. And rules that say he cannot charge any of the other adjacent path finders.

Additionally, to make sure I hear this correctly... that DW guy just doesnt move at all... and if he had a gun... couldnt shoot it either.

"When you pick a model to move, if that model started the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy model, it cannot make a normal move. Instead, it can either remain stationary or Fall Back" P22

Also from the designers' commentary:
Q: If a model Falls Back from one of my models, can my model declare a charge against them when it is my turn to act in that phase?
A: No. Your model was within 1" of an enemy model at the beginning of the phase, so it can only remain stationary or Fall Back (but this move doesn’t have to be ‘backwards’).

If he falls back he can't shoot. "If a model Falls Back, it cannot Advance, charge, React or be Readied in that phase. A model that Falls Back also cannot shoot later that battle round unless it can FLY." P22

If he remains stationary then he can shoot.

What page is the designers commentary?

Also, on page 22, under normal move, it defines a normal move as "a model making a normal move can move a distance equal to or less than its move characteristic". Is a charge considered a normal move?

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/kill_team_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

No, a Normal Move is a Normal Move. The other types of move are Advancing, Readying, Falling Back, Charging.