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Made in fi
Been Around the Block





Hi,

I am going to a tournament soon and need help choosing a list. I think that I will see a lot of Imperial Knights and new Chaos Knights at the tournament, along with the usual GSC and Ork lists. I am trying to tailor my list to be able to handle both knights and hordes. There should be a lot of LOS blocking terrain, so indirect shooting will be very strong. The tournament uses the ETC rules set.

Can you guys suggest which list I should pick from the 4 lists below? I am open to suggestions and feedback. Thank you in advanced.

List 1:

Spoiler:

Idea here is that there is a lot of mid strength shooting that ignores los. Very good against hordes, worried about knights. Reapers add some indirect shooting and some good mid strength shooting, but will die too easily.

TOTAL POINTS: 2000
COMMAND POINTS: 10

Battalion Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Farseer Skyrunner: Runes of Fate (Doom/Executioner), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
HQ2: Warlock Skyrunner: Runes of Battle (Protect/Jinx), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
Troops1: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops2: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops3: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
FA1: 6 Windriders: 6 Scatter Laser
HS1: Night Spinner: Doomweaver, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS2: Night Spinner: Doomweaver, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS3: Night Spinner: Doomweaver, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Spearhead Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Autarch: WL (Ambush of Blades), Forceshield, Shuriken Pistol, Star Glaive, Relic (Faolchu Wing)
HS1: 2 Dark Reapers, 1 Dark Reaper Exarch: 2 Reaper Launcher, Tempest Launcher
HS2: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS3: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS4: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
Transport1: Wave Serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

Air Wing Detachment <Alaitoc>

Flyer1: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer2: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer3: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons


List 2:

Spoiler:

Same idea as above, but the vibro cannons should help with knights.

TOTAL POINTS: 1999
COMMAND POINTS: 10

Battalion Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Farseer Skyrunner: Runes of Fate (Doom/Executioner), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
HQ2: Warlock Skyrunner: Runes of Battle (Protect/Jinx), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
Troops1: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops2: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops3: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
FA1: 5 Windriders: 4 Scatter Laser, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS1: Night Spinner: Doomweaver, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS2: Night Spinner: Doomweaver, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS3: Night Spinner: Doomweaver, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Spearhead Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Autarch: WL (Ambush of Blades), Forceshield, Shuriken Pistol, Star Glaive, Relic (Faolchu Wing)
HS1: 2 Dark Reapers, 1 Dark Reaper Exarch: 2 Reaper Launcher, Tempest Launcher
HS2: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Vibro Cannon
HS3: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Vibro Cannon
HS4: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Vibro Cannon
Transport1: Wave Serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

Air Wing Detachment <Alaitoc>

Flyer1: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer2: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer3: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons


List 3:

Spoiler:

Stronger focus on anti knight firepower with the Fire Prisms (will try to use Linked Fire stratagem every turn for full rerolls). The prisms are also great against hordes.

TOTAL POINTS: 1997
COMMAND POINTS: 10

Battalion Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Farseer Skyrunner: Runes of Fate (Doom/Executioner), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
HQ2: Warlock Skyrunner: Runes of Battle (Protect/Jinx), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
Troops1: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops2: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops3: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
HS1: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS2: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS3: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Spearhead Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Autarch: WL (Ambush of Blades), Forceshield, Shuriken Pistol, Star Glaive, Relic (Faolchu Wing)
HS1: 2 Dark Reapers, 1 Dark Reaper Exarch: 2 Reaper Launcher, Tempest Launcher
HS2: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS3: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS4: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
Transport1: Wave Serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

Air Wing Detachment <Alaitoc>

Flyer1: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer2: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer3: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons


List 4:

Spoiler:

Trying to balance the list with some mobility and more mid-strength shooting here with the windriders and vyper.

TOTAL POINTS: 1999
COMMAND POINTS: 10

Battalion Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Farseer Skyrunner: Runes of Fate (Doom/Executioner), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
HQ2: Warlock Skyrunner: Runes of Battle (Protect/Jinx), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
Troops1: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops2: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops3: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
FA1: 9 Windriders: 9 Scatter Laser
FA2: Vyper: Scatter Laser, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS1: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS2: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS3: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Spearhead Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Autarch: WL (Ambush of Blades), Forceshield, Shuriken Pistol, Star Glaive, Relic (Faolchu Wing)
HS2: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS3: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS4: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver

Air Wing Detachment <Alaitoc>

Flyer1: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer2: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer3: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I think these are all fairly solid. I'd drop the serpent and reapers from lists 1, 2 and 3 in favor of a hemlock. I don't see the point of the 3 reapers in any of the lists. If I was to pick one I'd go with list 4. I like the full unit of scatbikes backed by the prisms, spinners and CHEs. Looks pretty nasty!
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, some lists are as bad as they can be with support batteries and Night Spinners.
Sorry, not my lists.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Thank you for the feedback.

I have had tremendous success with Support Batteries, I really like them, they always make their points back for me. Their indirect shooting is really good for clearing out T3, T4, T5 units in cover, that my other units can't see. They sit on objectives really well, 3 T5 units with 5W each is hard to remove and with them being a low priority target in the list means that they usually get 3-4 turns of shooting. They are also mobile and can move 6" per turn, which is quite valuable and often overlooked. I have had these guys remove 60+ Ork boys in a game. They also can cover a lot of ground and camp in my back field. Don't forget that you have to target each support weapon individually, which is another plus. I feel that they are really points efficient. They are staying.

I agree that the Reapers are probably less useful, 4 S5 shots + 2D6 S4 indirect shots are really good though. Overall, looks like I am going with list 4 (the one with 9 scat bikes).
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, your army (armies) will hardly stop a fast moving army geared towards cc.
If you get in cc, you're screwed.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





That is a good point. Can't have it all in a single list. Most units that can fly will be able to fall back and still shoot, which is the majority of the army. There are also ways to screen from CC and delay the charge by a turn. Probably the best way to mitigate this is to go with more fliers, which is something that I don't want to do at the moment. Prefer to keep a more balanced list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 08:26:33


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I don't see CC being an issue. The rangers can screen your backline units decently enough, and only the support weapons could be tied up by combat. Very balanced in terms of anti horde and anti tank - extremely killy all around as well as survivable with all of those tough support weapons and minuses to hit on fliers and rangers. Would you be deep striking in the bikes or start with them on the board? I like to deep strike bikes, but typically with more than the single unit (one unit of scatbikes, a blob of guardians & aux detachment of haywire skyweavers all in reserves being a favorite of mine). Guide on the farseer would be really nice for them, especially if deep striking.
   
Made in fi
Been Around the Block





I am thinking that changing Executioner for Guide will make sense with the bikes in the list. I think that in most scenarios I will start them on the table, it depends on the match up and if I will be deploying first or second. I feel that for a blob of Guardians you need two Farseers for Doom + Guide + Fortune and some more CP to buff them up every turn. In this list I want to focus the CP on the Fire Prisms and the +1 to cast.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





I am thinking of removing the Vyper from List 4 above in favor of making the Autarch a Skyrunner and adding a single ranger.

Feel like this should be final list:

Battalion Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Farseer Skyrunner: Runes of Fate (Doom/Guide), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
HQ2: Warlock Skyrunner: Runes of Battle (Protect/Jinx), Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
Troops1: 6 Rangers: 6 Ranger Long Rifle, 6 Shuriken Pistol
Troops2: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
Troops3: 5 Rangers: 5 Ranger Long Rifle, 5 Shuriken Pistol
FA1: 9 Windriders: 9 Scatter Laser
HS1: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Spirit Stones
HS2: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
HS3: Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Spearhead Detachment <Alaitoc>

HQ1: Autarch Skyrunner: WL (An Eye on Distant Events), Laser Lance, Relic (The Phoenix Gem)
HS2: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS3: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver
HS4: 3 Support Weapons: 3 Shadow Weaver

Air Wing Detachment <Alaitoc>

Flyer1: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer2: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
Flyer3: Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2 Starcannons
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, it would be interesting to see how your list is going to work in a tournament setting.
Good luck!

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in de
Devastating Dark Reaper





Biel-Tan

i like the 3rd one but as has been stated before i wouldn't use the batteries since we don't have the chaff to cover them up.

To the 3rd list i would remove the batteries and add some Windriders and / lances

We are the Children of Eldanesh and Ulthanesh. The galaxy will be ours again.

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Made in fi
Been Around the Block





If anyone is interested on how the list performed. I went with list 4.

Attended a 2 day, 5 game tournament that was full of ETC players (12 ETC players out of 24) from 3 different ETC teams. All my games, but 1 (Necrons), were against ETC players. I took 4th place missing out on 3rd place by 2 points.

Game 1 was vs Tau with 3 riptides and 4 broadsides, I won by end of turn 2. 20-0 victory.
Game 2 was vs Necrons with 3 Doom Scythes and 3 Doomsday Arks. I won by end of turn 3. 20-0 victory.
Game 3 was vs Dark Eldar with 5 fliers, 3 ravagers, 7 warrior squads and 7 venoms. I lost after 7 turns on progressive scoring and maelstrom, he really controlled the board well and my army whiffed turn 1 shooting really hard. 0-20 loss.
Game 4 was vs Imperial Guard with 2 Tank commanders, wyvern, bunch of troops, motars, 3 BA Smash Captains. I won after turn 1. 20-0 victory.
Game 5 was vs Demons and Thousand Sons with 60 Plague Bearers, 30 Pink Horros, 90 Tzangoors, Ahriman, 2 Demon Princes and other characters. I had a narrow loss after turn 5, lost on progressive scoring and maelstrom, made a deployment mistake that cost me all my bikes turn 1 and the victory (he made a 10 inch charge on turn 1). 8-12 loss.

Overall, the list of very good and has an incredible turn 1 punch. Scoring is quite good if you are aggressive with moving the Fire Prisms up from turn 2. Big lesson - take care of those jetbikes, they are really good, but fragile. Often, they are the key to winning games. Vyper was clutch, often people ignored it, while it scored objectives all game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/02 12:59:53


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Congratulations on the placement! Well done.
Which units were the best in your list and which units didn't work well?

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




thefonkleurrr wrote:
If anyone is interested on how the list performed. I went with list 3.


Just for clarification, list 3 or list 4? You mentioned the vyper so I'm thinking 4 which was my favorite of the lists. Did you deploy the bikes turn one each game or webway them in?
   
Made in fi
Been Around the Block





Sorry, my mistake, I went with list 4.

Best units:
1. Fire Prisms were really good with Link Fire stratagem. Shooting all 3 into a single target getting full rerolls for 1CP is borderline broken. I was guaranteed to kill a priority target each turn with them.
2. Crimson Hunter Exarchs are always amazing. Great for screening. Game 5 they were flying in front of all army and denying any deepstrike to my opponent. They are also very killy, especially against anything that has fly keyword, like Riptides, Doomsday Arks. Built in reroll of 1's to hit is also great.
3. Support Weapon Platforms were really good to kill things like the Tau drones that were hiding in a ruin out of LOS. They won me game 1 vs Tau by killing all the drones on turn 1, letting my fliers and prisms kill the Riptides. I did not lose any platforms throughout the tournament, while they were holding 1-2 objectives all game. They are just not a priority target for my opponents.

Worst Units:
1. Windriders - they take the -1 to hit when moving, and you have to move them a lot to score objectives. Without Guide (that often failed to cast), they were not killing much. They were also the first thing my opponents targeted and killed. Died every game by turn 2.
2. Vyper - while it was fast and scored a lot, it died really quick once the opponent looked at it. I am thinking to replace it with a War Walker that is much more durable with T6 and 5++ invuln.

I always started my bikes on the board, their fire power is important if you are going first. They are good at removing the last few wounds from something my other units did not manage to kill. It also distracted my opponent when they were in his face turn 1, and he had to deal with them, letting my Fire Prisms and other units live longer. They also soak a lot of shooting. Bikes are also great at killing Tau Fire Warriors and Guardsmens, 9 bikes basically kill 2 units per turn.

Overall, I would switch the Vyper to a War Walker, thats about it. Otherwise, it is a really good list that does not have any horrible matchups, maybe 6-8 Eldar fliers or 18 Ork Mek Guns.

I also used the Phantasm stratagem a lot, baiting my opponent by putting some Fire Prisms and Bikes to one side of the deployment and then moving them back into cover after the seize roll. Worked like a charm and was able to catch people completely out of place.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/02 13:17:42


 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Game 4 was vs Imperial Guard with 2 Tank commanders, wyvern, bunch of troops, motars, 3 BA Smash Captains. I won after turn 1.


Turn 1?

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in fi
Been Around the Block





Yes, in that game I went first, got good maelstrom cards (scored all my cards), he lost both Tank Commanders and a bunch of troops to my shooting, my whole army moved up and held 4 objectives. Then in his turn, he got bad cards (scored none), he failed a 3D6 charge with his Smash Captain on 2 of my fliers and managed to kill only 2 bikers. He ended the game there, as next turn he would lose his Wyvern, 2 Smash Captains (1 was in the open and 1 was behind 10 guardsmen), and he would be miles behind on maelstrom. The game was over after turn 1, it would be 20-0 either way as he had no way to kill anything at that point, or get to any objectives.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Four of the games were 20-0 or 0-20. Is that what 40k is now? Just seeing who gets steamrolled?

It's been a while since I was active in 40k, so apologies if I'm behind on the current scene.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

LeperColony wrote:
Four of the games were 20-0 or 0-20. Is that what 40k is now? Just seeing who gets steamrolled?

It's been a while since I was active in 40k, so apologies if I'm behind on the current scene.

As the OP said, in maelstrom missions the game can be over rather quickly if one player draws the right cards and the other not.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
 
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