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Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

I started off with RT and the first box of Marines back in 1988 or so, and I'm thinking about messing around with that again for small skirmish games. I've got a bunch of plague marines from the latest releases. They are pretty much primaris marine sized. Has the lore changed their sizes or is this just scale creep compared to older plague marine and chaos marine models from the 90's-00's?

I know that regular marines used to be on 25mm bases but now 32mm, but the figures remained the same size right? Would old beakies fit next to a tactical squad from recent releases?

Have Orks gotten bigger as well? I just picked up some 2e era orks but I'm wondering if they will work with modern figures or will sizes be off? Orks have always been fairly big though.

Checking out the game for the first time really since Rogue Trader, and playing KT has me wanting to dust off the classic game for some skirmish action. I'm grabbing stuff of Ebay but I'm worried it won't be compatible size-wise compared to recent stuff.

Thanks for any help.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





it's just scale creep and you've no need to worry, with a handful of exceptions people are fine with using older models.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






The old RT era Beakies are indeed quite a bit smaller than the current Tacticals.

but. . . don't worry about it, you can still play them.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





bigern314 wrote:
I know that regular marines used to be on 25mm bases but now 32mm, but the figures remained the same size right?

Wrong:



It ends on BA tacticals, but DW veterans and Thousand Sons are slightly higher still...
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York


Some of it is in the posture, Modern marines stand up a bitt straighter.

Some of it is that new fangled geneseed they are using.


Built a new HB and Sarge out of 6th ed tacticals to add some new toys to an old squad. They are a little bigger.





Bit of creep with the captiains.

If they are right next to each other, you notice it with some of the really old stuff. But once things start moving arounf the table, it all works out. Never had anyone complain about the old stuff. If you have it, use it!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 00:20:25


Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

Awesome posts guys! Thank you very much. To note I don't still have my old poorly painted Ultramarines from RT, alas! But as I grab older stuff off Ebay I was wondering how it would look next to modern stuff. I have 16 2e era orks on route and I bet they are kind of small next to modern Death Guard, who are quite bloated.

Most of my mini painting is D&D & historicals and there has been a fair bit of creep since the old 25/28mm days to what is now mostly 32 mm in all but name.

Again thanks for good info especially those pics!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 00:55:04


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Nice post Nevelon!

Minor quibble with the Irbis post: the "1998 model" is actually still a rogue trader era marine, whereas 1998 was well into 2nd Ed and getting close to 3rd Ed. Many of the 2nd Ed models are identical scale to the modern day basic marines. Most of the size difference is in the new 32mm bases. My army is 2nd Ed through current models and they are all basically the same size.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 00:55:17


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

 Insectum7 wrote:
Nice post Nevelon!

Minor quibble with the Irbis post: the "1998 model" is actually still a rogue trader era marine, whereas 1998 was well into 2nd Ed and getting close to 3rd Ed. Many of the 2nd Ed models are identical scale to the modern day basic marines. Most of the size difference is in the new 32mm bases. My army is 2nd Ed through current models and they are all basically the same size.
\

Appreciate the input, exactly what I'm interested in.

I'm wondering how those same era Chaos Marines would look next to modern Death Guard, which are pretty big figures compared to regular space marines.

I love vintage citadel!
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Older Chaos are smaller (or as I like to say, the right size), especially the metal ones.

Stick to the ‘vintage’ minis - you won’t regret it :-)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 06:30:58


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Insectum7 wrote:
Minor quibble with the Irbis post: the "1998 model" is actually still a rogue trader era marine, whereas 1998 was well into 2nd Ed and getting close to 3rd Ed. Many of the 2nd Ed models are identical scale to the modern day basic marines. Most of the size difference is in the new 32mm bases. My army is 2nd Ed through current models and they are all basically the same size.

Did you read text on the image?

Also, disagree on the 'base only' thing. People say this all the time which puzzles me, just look at photo Nevelon did, both marines are on identical base and no one can say with straight face modern one is anywhere near to being identical in size...
   
Made in gb
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos





Hugeness leads to heresy.

 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






my original avatar is about the size of an old space marine. My newer avatars (especially the FW one) make it look like a baby avatar

10000 points 7000
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Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

Moriarty wrote:
Older Chaos are smaller (or as I like to say, the right size), especially the metal ones.

Stick to the ‘vintage’ minis - you won’t regret it :-)


Very true! and smaller old plague marines just haven't had the time to swell up and burst open like the more recent models.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Irbis wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Minor quibble with the Irbis post: the "1998 model" is actually still a rogue trader era marine, whereas 1998 was well into 2nd Ed and getting close to 3rd Ed. Many of the 2nd Ed models are identical scale to the modern day basic marines. Most of the size difference is in the new 32mm bases. My army is 2nd Ed through current models and they are all basically the same size.

Did you read text on the image?

Also, disagree on the 'base only' thing. People say this all the time which puzzles me, just look at photo Nevelon did, both marines are on identical base and no one can say with straight face modern one is anywhere near to being identical in size...


I saw the text, but the image and dates provided can be misleading, or give someone the wrong impression. 3rd Edition was released in November of 1998 (or at least Q4). The model "painted in 1998" is a model from. . . possibly the late 80s. Not only that, the image you posted starts at cultists and moves through Terminator Armor. For basic SMs you got beakies, and then two Mkvii Tacticals that are the same scale, just one is on a 32mm and standing slightly straighter.

Ok, the base thing. The Tactical squad box now comes on 32mm bases, and the kit was originally releases in 7th Ed, possibly 6th. I've been meaning to do this for a while, so here you go:





All those models are functionally the same scale. There are minor differences in height, depending on sculpt and build. Many of the 2nd Edition metals are a bit more slender, and those in particular vary quite a bit in height, but sometimes that's the addition or removal of a helmet. The 2nd Edition Techmarine in particular looks exactly the same size as the modern Tactical marine, and if you put that guy on a 32mm base he'd be indistinguishable in size from the Lt. I made who's standing on the 32mm. I specifically put the older 3rd Ed Tactical guy next to the new, more upright model from 7th Ed. They're the same scale, one has his legs posed more upright. Note that the 'Squatter' Tac marine from 3rd Ed. has almost identical legs to the Lt. on the 32mm. You put those guys both on the same base, they look the same.

I included the overhead view of the models to show how much bigger the model appears on the 32mm at first glance. But again, the shoulder width/pads are essentially the same size.

The "captains" image shows that while the 1991 metal Captain is more slender, but doesn't look too out of place next to a 7th-8th Ed build. The Captain on the far right is the outlier in size, looking quite tall. Buuut. . . normally that model has a bare head, and I put a custom helmet on him, bigger backpack, and bigger right-shoulder pad (from 2nd Ed. Marneus Calgar). Much of the size difference there just comes from the build, and the fact that he's standing upright perched on a rock.

The basic marine has had a stable scale for a loooong time, ~20 years. Many 2nd Ed models won't look out of place next to the current Tactical/Devastator/Assault boxes. The Deathwatch wen't through a definite "embiggening" during 7th, though did not replace the Tactical box. Terminators have had a more linear increase in size over time, although have been relatively stable since their plastic kit in 4th Ed. The future for them may be indicated by the new Chaos Terminator kit, which is possibly a little bigger, but definitely a nicer sculpt.

For funsies:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/09 18:04:42


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

Thanks for that info! Much appreciated. I'm guessing old Terminators are a fair bit smaller than the modern variant?
Looking at some old metal ones but nothing to compare against.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






bigern314 wrote:
Thanks for that info! Much appreciated. I'm guessing old Terminators are a fair bit smaller than the modern variant?
Looking at some old metal ones but nothing to compare against.


1st Edition is pretty small. 2nd edition ones are bigger, 4th got even bigger, there may be a few character models that are larger, but I'm not sure. I have most of that lineup though so I'll get you some reference. I gotta dig em up though, could be a while.

Imo the 2nd Edition ones on a 40mm base look pretty good next to the model lineup I did above, so it depends on what metals you have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here you go!




So there's definitely been some size increase. That said, with a 40mm base and a little extra effort you can make them pretty comparable. The big 5th Ed Librarian Terminator is downright gigantic, even compared to the current kit, but the Rogue Trader Chaos Terminator Champion looks pretty good with some extra "rocks" underfoot, the same goes for old Abaddon.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/09 22:44:32


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

Sweet! Thanks for that info and the pics. Much appreciated.
   
Made in us
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran





Mississippi

Terminators got quite a bit larger when new models came out for 3rd ed Space Hulk. For a while, the (cheaper, better looking) plastics were not allowed in official GW tournaments, but eventually GW saw the light (since they were losing sales to the “cheaper” plastics that anyone with a brain was using) and redid the 40K kit to match the larger models from the board game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 16:10:21


It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

Why did they increase the base size for regular marines? Granted they were pushing the limits of the 25mm round. I just got a bunch in and 10 are on 25mm and 10 on 32mm and I"m trying to figure out which ones to move to the other size.
   
Made in us
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran





Mississippi

bigern314 wrote:
Why did they increase the base size for regular marines? Granted they were pushing the limits of the 25mm round. I just got a bunch in and 10 are on 25mm and 10 on 32mm and I"m trying to figure out which ones to move to the other size.


‘They look better on 32mm” is basically the reason. Model feet were hanging over the 25 mm bases, so for aesthetic appeal they started moving models like marines and Necrons to the larger bases.

As a result, I’ve gone back and rebased my sergeants and other officers/heroes onto larger bases, so they are easier to identify.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Yep, as posted above if you stick to 2nd through 7th....they were rather consistent. Differences were minimal (and something no one likes to address...Space Marines would have different sized bodies and hence different sized armour...so that would actually account for a larger variety of miniatures than we even see in the actual game).

Some of the RT stuff is noticeably smaller, and the late 7th-8th Chaos stuff had actual size creep. Primaris obviously being way bigger. They did a pretty fantastic job though being consistent over a span of 20-25 years though. Now, all bets are off.

 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

Got a batch of 2e space orks in today. I think these were definitely smaller back then. But no modern orks to compare with other than WHFB stuff.

Modern Orks are on 32mm correct? These are on 25mm. I think I'll leave them as is.

And yeah I don't mind some size differences between regular Marines as that does fit the fiction.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Orks have changed tremendously compared to marines - that's no doubt. AoS took them even further.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







My brother got the new snap fit Plague dudes and I dug out my unfinished 3rd or 4th edition era Plague Marines. The little metal guys should have backpacks, but still...




The plague zombie is taller than the old models.

Edit: I think I got my metal Plague Marines mixed together. The metal figure with the horn and one eye looks like it they’re from the 8012 Plague Marine blister. The metal dudes one the right side (that you can maybe see had separate metal arms) should be the more recent design that was in the boxed set.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/12 02:16:21


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





bigern314 wrote:
Got a batch of 2e space orks in today. I think these were definitely smaller back then. But no modern orks to compare with other than WHFB stuff.

Modern Orks are on 32mm correct? These are on 25mm. I think I'll leave them as is.

And yeah I don't mind some size differences between regular Marines as that does fit the fiction.


2E Orks are way smaller. especially if you don't account for the hunchback/horizontal neck thing they had going on.

2E Grots could be bigger though. The new ones may be as tall/taller but the 2E autogun grots were single piece and bulkier. The newer ones are kind of starved, skinny, and half naked.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 09:30:33


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

These orks look like they are dropping a deuce...


Now that I think of it, is that even a citadel ork figure? Looking though historical releases and not seeing that model.
[Thumb - models.jpg]

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/12 15:35:46


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







bigern314 wrote:
These orks look like they are dropping a deuce...


Now that I think of it, is that even a citadel ork figure? Looking though historical releases and not seeing that model.


Looks like Warhammer Fantasy Battle orks (Battle for Skull Pass or that era?) with the arms or weapons swapped out.

   
Made in se
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Sweden

bigern314 wrote:
These orks look like they are dropping a deuce...


Now that I think of it, is that even a citadel ork figure? Looking though historical releases and not seeing that model.


Yep its a gw starter/learn to paint plastic monopose ork from 40n 2nd edition

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/12 16:19:12


Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






bigern314 wrote:
These orks look like they are dropping a deuce...


Now that I think of it, is that even a citadel ork figure? Looking though historical releases and not seeing that model.


That is the standard Ork model that came in the 2nd edition Boxed set release. I bet my bro has a few of those still knocking around.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



Saint Louis, MO

 solkan wrote:
bigern314 wrote:
These orks look like they are dropping a deuce...


Now that I think of it, is that even a citadel ork figure? Looking though historical releases and not seeing that model.


Looks like Warhammer Fantasy Battle orks (Battle for Skull Pass or that era?) with the arms or weapons swapped out.



May well be. Will still work as filler troops, but need to get some proper ork and command models.
   
 
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