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Made in us
Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster





Denver, CO

How many people here run a pure Ministorum/Inquisition force? Before anyone says,"That's not really possible." BS, I just watched 2 BRs with pure forces and they both held up pretty well fighting solid lists that were not necessarily tournament style lists.

How do you feel about the unit types available?

What do you prefer to field? Do you prefer cheap hordes of Acolytes with Storm Bolters or do you go in for the more elite options?

Do you do "mixed units" of Acolytes/Crusaders/Death Ctists and such running alongside each other?

What works for your local meta?
   
Made in de
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





I seriously hope that the upcoming Sororitas will give the Inquisition at least some love. The fact that the Imperium's covert operations agency isn't even represented in Kill Team (whereas factions such as the Custodes are) is beyond ridiculous.

I still don't understand why GW moved away from the "Daemon/Witch/Alien Hunters" format to "purely Marine" GK and DW codizes.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 purplkrush wrote:
How many people here run a pure Ministorum/Inquisition force? Before anyone says,"That's not really possible." BS, I just watched 2 BRs with pure forces and they both held up pretty well fighting solid lists that were not necessarily tournament style lists.

How do you feel about the unit types available?

What do you prefer to field? Do you prefer cheap hordes of Acolytes with Storm Bolters or do you go in for the more elite options?

Do you do "mixed units" of Acolytes/Crusaders/Death Ctists and such running alongside each other?

What works for your local meta?


By Adeptus Ministorium, do you mean Sisters of Battle, or just the auxiliary units that are "Adeptus Ministorum".

It is technically possible. A Missionary or Uriah leading a Spearhead of Pengines, with a big pile of Acros, Crusaders, and Death Cult. Note that your army can only be that one spearhead, since the auxilia units that aren't pengines don't take up slots if there's a missionary or Uriah in your detachment, which are your only HQ options. It would probably not be good, though, since you have no armored carriers for all your kind of fragile melee units, but 9 Pengines might work okay.



As for Inquisition, it is also technically possible. You'll be fielding probably 2 Vanguards and a Supreme Command, with 3 Land Raider Prometheii and a ton of Acolyetes, Ordo Malleus Terminator Inquisitors, and named characters. This list would be even worse than the list of 9 Pengines, presumably.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 18:18:14


 
   
Made in ie
Missionary On A Mission





One of the most fun lists I've run in 8th had the Ministorum elite choices in rhinos and immolators then just plough them into the enemy lines as fast as possible with melta immolators zipping about shooting heavy armor and grabbing objectives. Great fun.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 purplkrush wrote:
How many people here run a pure Ministorum/Inquisition force? Before anyone says,"That's not really possible." BS, I just watched 2 BRs with pure forces and they both held up pretty well fighting solid lists that were not necessarily tournament style lists.
... how?
If it's with sisters then fair enough, they aren't a strong faction but they can fight.

But inquisition and ministorum? The closest thing they have to a troop unit are the elite acolytes, who are overpriced guardsmen paying over the odds for weapons. They have nothing resembling an anti-tank unit short of trying to hit them with penitent engines, and while the named inquisitors have some interesting rules they get trucked in combat by anything resembling an assault character and the non-named inquisitors are worse (the narrative rules eisenhorn is good though).

Best unit is probably the arco-flagellants are not bad. Not berzerkers but not at all bad. Cultists and crusaders probably lack that little something (like a bodyguard ability or infiltration) to favour them over arcos. Assassins, if included, are of course a solid choice.
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster





Denver, CO

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

By Adeptus Ministorium, do you mean Sisters of Battle, or just the auxiliary units that are "Adeptus Ministorum".

It is technically possible. A Missionary or Uriah leading a Spearhead of Pengines, with a big pile of Acros, Crusaders, and Death Cult. Note that your army can only be that one spearhead, since the auxilia units that aren't pengines don't take up slots if there's a missionary or Uriah in your detachment, which are your only HQ options. It would probably not be good, though, since you have no armored carriers for all your kind of fragile melee units, but 9 Pengines might work okay.


That is a good question. Adeptus Ministorum in this case would mean any unit that shared that keyword or affected units with that keyword. Even if we excluded Sororitas we old have Preachers, Missionaries, Hospitalers, Arco Flagellants, Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders and Penitent Engines. I would expand that to include Rhinos and Immolators as well, they may be best known for use by Sororitas but they round out the list nicely and fit the basic idea.

Inquisition face a bit more difficult road to getting rounded out. Acolytes, Daemonhosts and Jokero certainly offer a variety of customization options though I would like to include Death Cult Assassins, Arco Flagellants and Crusaders as they’ve been traditionally associated with them, but what if we took a different route? Let’s say we can include any Imperium Transport vehicle as Inquisition models have Authority of the Inquisition. That would open up Chimeras, Tauroxes, Bane/Doomhammers and Valkyries/Vendettas to be sure along with Rhinos, Immolators and Razorbacks. Suddenly our lists can look a lot different.

I’ve been thinking about using squads of Acolytes riding in Razorbacks/Immolators as the backbone of my force. Throw in a couple Valkyries/Vendettas as transports with significant anti-tank capabilities and suddenly you have a reasonable force with a significant amount of firepower. With Acolytes limited to 6 man squads the Razorbacks/Immolators are virtually handcrafted for them. The Valkyries/Vendettas can ferry around the Inquisitor and their retinue of Acolytes, Daemonhosts and Jokero. A mechanized infantry approach might really fit the Inquisition!

I ask because I have the beginnings of an Astra Militarum force that I meant to run with my Inquisitors but I kind of want something a bit more unique. I have 2 Chimeras, a Razorback and a Vendetta along with Greyfax and a couple more Unnamed Inquisitor models (and their retinues) from back in the day. Using the House Cawdor models kitbashed with some Cadian parts and Stormbolters sounds like it might be a fun, unique army that would work well enough for casual games down at the FLGS.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

 purplkrush wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

By Adeptus Ministorium, do you mean Sisters of Battle, or just the auxiliary units that are "Adeptus Ministorum".

It is technically possible. A Missionary or Uriah leading a Spearhead of Pengines, with a big pile of Acros, Crusaders, and Death Cult. Note that your army can only be that one spearhead, since the auxilia units that aren't pengines don't take up slots if there's a missionary or Uriah in your detachment, which are your only HQ options. It would probably not be good, though, since you have no armored carriers for all your kind of fragile melee units, but 9 Pengines might work okay.


That is a good question. Adeptus Ministorum in this case would mean any unit that shared that keyword or affected units with that keyword. Even if we excluded Sororitas we old have Preachers, Missionaries, Hospitalers, Arco Flagellants, Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders and Penitent Engines. I would expand that to include Rhinos and Immolators as well, they may be best known for use by Sororitas but they round out the list nicely and fit the basic idea.

Inquisition face a bit more difficult road to getting rounded out. Acolytes, Daemonhosts and Jokero certainly offer a variety of customization options though I would like to include Death Cult Assassins, Arco Flagellants and Crusaders as they’ve been traditionally associated with them, but what if we took a different route? Let’s say we can include any Imperium Transport vehicle as Inquisition models have Authority of the Inquisition. That would open up Chimeras, Tauroxes, Bane/Doomhammers and Valkyries/Vendettas to be sure along with Rhinos, Immolators and Razorbacks. Suddenly our lists can look a lot different.

I’ve been thinking about using squads of Acolytes riding in Razorbacks/Immolators as the backbone of my force. Throw in a couple Valkyries/Vendettas as transports with significant anti-tank capabilities and suddenly you have a reasonable force with a significant amount of firepower. With Acolytes limited to 6 man squads the Razorbacks/Immolators are virtually handcrafted for them. The Valkyries/Vendettas can ferry around the Inquisitor and their retinue of Acolytes, Daemonhosts and Jokero. A mechanized infantry approach might really fit the Inquisition!

I ask because I have the beginnings of an Astra Militarum force that I meant to run with my Inquisitors but I kind of want something a bit more unique. I have 2 Chimeras, a Razorback and a Vendetta along with Greyfax and a couple more Unnamed Inquisitor models (and their retinues) from back in the day. Using the House Cawdor models kitbashed with some Cadian parts and Stormbolters sounds like it might be a fun, unique army that would work well enough for casual games down at the FLGS.

Since you seem a bit more open about guard vehicles, for a a fluffy force, you could include a Militarum Tempestus battalion. That gives you stormtroopers to use and gets you Taurox Primes, Valkyies, Officers of the fleet, and psykers.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 purplkrush wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

By Adeptus Ministorium, do you mean Sisters of Battle, or just the auxiliary units that are "Adeptus Ministorum".

It is technically possible. A Missionary or Uriah leading a Spearhead of Pengines, with a big pile of Acros, Crusaders, and Death Cult. Note that your army can only be that one spearhead, since the auxilia units that aren't pengines don't take up slots if there's a missionary or Uriah in your detachment, which are your only HQ options. It would probably not be good, though, since you have no armored carriers for all your kind of fragile melee units, but 9 Pengines might work okay.


That is a good question. Adeptus Ministorum in this case would mean any unit that shared that keyword or affected units with that keyword. Even if we excluded Sororitas we old have Preachers, Missionaries, Hospitalers, Arco Flagellants, Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders and Penitent Engines. I would expand that to include Rhinos and Immolators as well, they may be best known for use by Sororitas but they round out the list nicely and fit the basic idea.

Inquisition face a bit more difficult road to getting rounded out. Acolytes, Daemonhosts and Jokero certainly offer a variety of customization options though I would like to include Death Cult Assassins, Arco Flagellants and Crusaders as they’ve been traditionally associated with them, but what if we took a different route? Let’s say we can include any Imperium Transport vehicle as Inquisition models have Authority of the Inquisition. That would open up Chimeras, Tauroxes, Bane/Doomhammers and Valkyries/Vendettas to be sure along with Rhinos, Immolators and Razorbacks. Suddenly our lists can look a lot different.

I’ve been thinking about using squads of Acolytes riding in Razorbacks/Immolators as the backbone of my force. Throw in a couple Valkyries/Vendettas as transports with significant anti-tank capabilities and suddenly you have a reasonable force with a significant amount of firepower. With Acolytes limited to 6 man squads the Razorbacks/Immolators are virtually handcrafted for them. The Valkyries/Vendettas can ferry around the Inquisitor and their retinue of Acolytes, Daemonhosts and Jokero. A mechanized infantry approach might really fit the Inquisition!

I ask because I have the beginnings of an Astra Militarum force that I meant to run with my Inquisitors but I kind of want something a bit more unique. I have 2 Chimeras, a Razorback and a Vendetta along with Greyfax and a couple more Unnamed Inquisitor models (and their retinues) from back in the day. Using the House Cawdor models kitbashed with some Cadian parts and Stormbolters sounds like it might be a fun, unique army that would work well enough for casual games down at the FLGS.


You're going to absolutely need the Sisters tanks to make Adeptus Ministorum sans Sisters infantry work.

As for Inquisition, I'd only take Immos over Razors if you want the Immolation Flamer, otherwise take an Assault Cannon or Lascannon Razorback [you're also losing the cargoes that make the Sisters transports good]. Stormlord would be funny as hell, but it's about the same as just bringing a Guard Stormlord, which could get a regimental trait. Most of the time you're going to be running somewhat worse than if you hadn't included Inquisitors at all, because there aren't really any good things to put in the carrier, so at it's best it's probably looking like an SM Razorback Parking Lot without the re-rolls that Marines have to offer them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 22:56:27


 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission





Denver, CO, USA

First, hello in Denver! Second, I'd say especially with Inquisition, don't be bound with how GW has structured your codex and list options... I'd say be bound ONLY by the fluffiness of your army. I run an Inquisition Vanguard alongside a Militarum Tempestus Battlion (painted in Ordos red and black) and it feels just right. Acolytes and Crusaders have the right feel, but I wouldn't hesitate to dip into AM for planetary defense forces and requisitioned gunships, MT for elite shock troops, and Assassins because that's exactly how the Ordos would function. Be wary of too many acolytes... they are a bag o' VPs in certain scenarios.

   
Made in us
Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster





Denver, CO

 MacPhail wrote:
First, hello in Denver! Second, I'd say especially with Inquisition, don't be bound with how GW has structured your codex and list options... I'd say be bound ONLY by the fluffiness of your army. I run an Inquisition Vanguard alongside a Militarum Tempestus Battlion (painted in Ordos red and black) and it feels just right. Acolytes and Crusaders have the right feel, but I wouldn't hesitate to dip into AM for planetary defense forces and requisitioned gunships, MT for elite shock troops, and Assassins because that's exactly how the Ordos would function. Be wary of too many acolytes... they are a bag o' VPs in certain scenarios.


Hello Mile High!!

I do have some assassin and Servitor options available to me as well as a fair sized IG army in the midst of build. I’m currently assembling 3 squads of Catachan w/ 1 Heavy weapon squad, 3 squads of Cadians plus Command and 2 heavies, 6 Leman Russ, 2 Chimeras and a Hydra. Like I said, I also have a couple of retinues from the older Inquisitors so I can field stand-ins for Master of Ordinances and such. Originally I wanted to run a real Freakshow style arrangement with Auxiliary, Adeptus Ministorum (non-Sisters), assassins and psykers with a minimum backup of IG if possible. With the various Detachments available it can be done with a minimum of CP but it definitely ups the ante in the difficulty department.

However, I’m not a tournament kinda guy and I don’t wanna bring that mentality to my games. I’m looking to minimize the soupiness which is hard since GW took all the Inquisition options and shuffled them to other factions and I know how I feel when I accept a game against a certain faction only to find there is an absolute minimum of that faction in the army and it’s souped up to remove any baked in deficiencies. I guess that’s why I’m trying to figure out the most efficient and streamlined options for Inq.


 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
This line of reasoning broke 7th edition in Fantasy. The books should be as equal as possible, even a theoretical "Codex: Squirrels with Crustacean allies" should have a fair chance to beat "Codex: God".

 Redbeard wrote:

- Cost? FW models cost more? Because Thudd guns are more expensive than Wraithknights and Riptides. Nope, not a good argument. This is an expensive game. We play it knowing that, and also knowing that, realistically, it's cheaper than hookers and blow.
 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 purplkrush wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:
First, hello in Denver! Second, I'd say especially with Inquisition, don't be bound with how GW has structured your codex and list options... I'd say be bound ONLY by the fluffiness of your army. I run an Inquisition Vanguard alongside a Militarum Tempestus Battlion (painted in Ordos red and black) and it feels just right. Acolytes and Crusaders have the right feel, but I wouldn't hesitate to dip into AM for planetary defense forces and requisitioned gunships, MT for elite shock troops, and Assassins because that's exactly how the Ordos would function. Be wary of too many acolytes... they are a bag o' VPs in certain scenarios.


Hello Mile High!!

I do have some assassin and Servitor options available to me as well as a fair sized IG army in the midst of build. I’m currently assembling 3 squads of Catachan w/ 1 Heavy weapon squad, 3 squads of Cadians plus Command and 2 heavies, 6 Leman Russ, 2 Chimeras and a Hydra. Like I said, I also have a couple of retinues from the older Inquisitors so I can field stand-ins for Master of Ordinances and such. Originally I wanted to run a real Freakshow style arrangement with Auxiliary, Adeptus Ministorum (non-Sisters), assassins and psykers with a minimum backup of IG if possible. With the various Detachments available it can be done with a minimum of CP but it definitely ups the ante in the difficulty department.

However, I’m not a tournament kinda guy and I don’t wanna bring that mentality to my games. I’m looking to minimize the soupiness which is hard since GW took all the Inquisition options and shuffled them to other factions and I know how I feel when I accept a game against a certain faction only to find there is an absolute minimum of that faction in the army and it’s souped up to remove any baked in deficiencies. I guess that’s why I’m trying to figure out the most efficient and streamlined options for Inq.



Well, Inquisitors were actually just HQ options for the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle for a prolonged period of time; so it's not just soup. Also, Inquisition isn't really an army, an Inquisitor is a person with her close companions who would assume control of another army [Guard, Marines] or call in their Ordo's chamber militant [Sisters, Grey Knights, Deathwatch].

As a standalone solo unit they might belong in Kill Team, but an Inquision Vanguard or something leading a Guard/Marine army, or attached to a SoB, GK, or DW army, would be very fluffy.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster





Denver, CO

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Well, Inquisitors were actually just HQ options for the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle for a prolonged period of time; so it's not just soup. Also, Inquisition isn't really an army, an Inquisitor is a person with her close companions who would assume control of another army [Guard, Marines] or call in their Ordo's chamber militant [Sisters, Grey Knights, Deathwatch].

As a standalone solo unit they might belong in Kill Team, but an Inquision Vanguard or something leading a Guard/Marine army, or attached to a SoB, GK, or DW army, would be very fluffy.


Kind of true. Their retinues could do some work. A lot of those auras we’re seeing today are things the Retinue used to do back in the day. Each member of the Retinue would offer some bonus. Also, both the cult and temple assassins and Stormtroopers have been pulled out of the Inquisition and GK were troops for Inq in the early days; Inq was not just and HQ option, they were THE HQ. GK, Sisters and Deathwatch were the elites of the armies of the Inq and now there’s no synergy between the masters of the armies and the armies themselves.

Regardless, this thread isn’t about rehashing older edition variations, it’s about finding fun new ways to play Inq! Instead I seem to be attracting more naysayers than anything else...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
This line of reasoning broke 7th edition in Fantasy. The books should be as equal as possible, even a theoretical "Codex: Squirrels with Crustacean allies" should have a fair chance to beat "Codex: God".

 Redbeard wrote:

- Cost? FW models cost more? Because Thudd guns are more expensive than Wraithknights and Riptides. Nope, not a good argument. This is an expensive game. We play it knowing that, and also knowing that, realistically, it's cheaper than hookers and blow.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It annoys me to no end that GW finally got Inquisition as right as they every had in 6th/7th and then blew it up again in 8th. We are two years in and a cornerstone of the setting still doesn't have a proper book or even a white dwarf release.

If they just went back to allowing any IOM army to add on either a solo inquisitor and/or a retinue then boom all is well, kinda like how you can just take a solo assassin.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 purplkrush wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Well, Inquisitors were actually just HQ options for the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle for a prolonged period of time; so it's not just soup. Also, Inquisition isn't really an army, an Inquisitor is a person with her close companions who would assume control of another army [Guard, Marines] or call in their Ordo's chamber militant [Sisters, Grey Knights, Deathwatch].

As a standalone solo unit they might belong in Kill Team, but an Inquision Vanguard or something leading a Guard/Marine army, or attached to a SoB, GK, or DW army, would be very fluffy.


Kind of true. Their retinues could do some work. A lot of those auras we’re seeing today are things the Retinue used to do back in the day. Each member of the Retinue would offer some bonus. Also, both the cult and temple assassins and Stormtroopers have been pulled out of the Inquisition and GK were troops for Inq in the early days; Inq was not just and HQ option, they were THE HQ. GK, Sisters and Deathwatch were the elites of the armies of the Inq and now there’s no synergy between the masters of the armies and the armies themselves.

Regardless, this thread isn’t about rehashing older edition variations, it’s about finding fun new ways to play Inq! Instead I seem to be attracting more naysayers than anything else...


Honestly, I think the "right way" to do this would have been to have:
Codex: Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters, and Xenos Hunters with Ordo Malleus/Hereticus/Xenos Inquisitors and Acolytes as an HQ and Elite option, and the rest of the GK, SoB, and DW respectively.
The Inquisitor would be the complimentary HQ to the Grandmaster, Canoness, and Watch Captain, having either the hit or wound re-roll aura to representing being the person with the intelligence on the situation [having scoped it out with her acolytes and called in the chamber militant] with the other HQ having the complementary aura to represent being the person in direct command of the military assets and having the experience as a military leader.
Since there are troop-less detachments [Vanguard], it doesn't actually force one to take GK, SoB, or DW with an Inquisitor, but it would have given synchority with the chamber troops.

That said, the bridge is crossed, so I'd make an Inquisiton army by taking a Vanguard with an Inquisitor and 3 Acolytes, and then an army of whatever else. You can do this easily, the only downside it comes with is the fact that a number of your points were spent on an Inquisitor and her retinue as opposed to more Guardsmen and Basilisks. It doesn't really matter what your Inquisitor and Acolytes are equipped with, since they're not going to compare to a Basilisk or a large number of IG riflemen. I might go: Ordo-Appropriate Inquisitor w/ Thunder/Daemonhammer as appropriate with either Dominate or Terrify, plus 3 Acolytes with either Storm Bolters or Plasmaguns.

Alternatively, I'd just counts-as my Inquisitor as a Grandmaster, Canoness, or Watch Master.


To be honest, Inquisitors and retinues probably most belong in Kill Team. Presumably, in a larger battle. an Inquisitor and her warband would be sitting on her ship in the tactical sandbox room to give situation updates, establish operational objectives, and liaising with supporting Imperial assets while the Grandmaster, Canoness, or Watch Captain does the actual managing of the troops.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/07/15 21:52:45


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Putting Inquisition into Grey Knights and Death Watch dexes is easy enough, but the ordo Hereticus is harder, because the history changed from 2nd to 3rd ed and back again.

Because if I remember correctly, in the old sisters of battle 2nd ed codex, there was no mention of the Inquisition and they weren't included in the dex. The sisters were the military arm of the Ecclisiarchy alone.

The when 3rd dropped, the made the sisters the Chamber Militant of the Hereticus in order to fit the pattern which was followed by Daemon Hunters, and would have been followed with Xeno Hunters, had they ever gotten around to actually writing it, which they never did.

Now fast forward to 8th, and it's Ecclesiarchy again.

I think the Imperial Agents book should be called the Inquisition Codex, and the various agents contained within the book should be able to fit into detachments commanded by the Inquisitors and then gain the Inquisitors Ordo trait.

It's easy to imagine an Inquisitor lending her authority to a band of Rogue Traders and requisitioning an Assassin for additional support.

Kill teams are the best way to release inquisitors though.Release the Inquisitors as Kill Team Leader kits; release boxes full of varied accolytes with data sheets that allow them to be fielded as troops and elites.

Change the Imperial Authority rule so that it allows the Inquisitor to REQUISITION Imperial Transports rather than merely ride in any Imperial transport that happens to be part of the detachment in which your Inquisitor happens to land.

That's not the only way they could do it, but I think it would work. The Imperial Agents datasheet download for apocalypse really gave me hope.
   
 
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