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One of the more interesting missions that you could play when I got started was the "Drop Pod Assault" mission. This was way back in third edition before Drop Pods were available for purchase, and the mission- while fraught with peril- was always a good time. It epitomized what Space Marines were all about. Now, you couldn't do one to save your life- not in the same manner as before. The limitations on deep striking, coupled with the points cost of a drop pod make doing this unfeasible. I think that's tragic, and after a quick search, I hadn't seen anything talking about this aside from an idea for a strategem. What limits their utility is that they can't be used effectively (that 9" bubble can be exploited fairly easily and restricting DS to turn two negates any usefulness that the pods bring.

I offer two possibilities to fix this issue.

One) Add this special ability to the Drop Pod: Drop Pod Assault- A drop pod may descend from orbit in any movement phase for the owning player and land anywhere on the table outside of 1" of an enemy model. All units must immediately disembark, and must remain outside of 1" of any enemy model. Any that cannot are slain. Models that arrive via drop pod may not make a charge move, and suffer a -1 to hit with all their weapons.

Two) Add this as a special rule for Space Marines in general: Drop Pod Assault- A Space Marine Army may make a Drop Pod assault rather than deploying normally. If they decide to do so, then every unit being being used must be transported by a drop pod, or have the ability to deep strike. At the beginning of turn one, all units start in reserve. Models outside of drop pods must follow the standard rules for deep striking, while drop pods may be placed anywhere on the table outside of 1" from any enemy model. All units embarked upon drop pods must immediately disembark and remain outside of 1" from an enemy model. Models embarked upon drop pods may not make an assault move on the turn in which they arrive, but may fire with a -1 to their hit rolls.

Thoughts?

I'd love DPA be brought back as simply "half of all Drop Pods (round up) may arrive from reserve Turn 1." Not OP, and gives Marines a special schtick. It won't fix Marines - probably not even enough to fix Pods - but it'd be a good change.

Bharring wrote:
I'd love DPA be brought back as simply "half of all Drop Pods (round up) may arrive from reserve Turn 1." Not OP, and gives Marines a special schtick. It won't fix Marines - probably not even enough to fix Pods - but it'd be a good change.

Agreed. Heck, given that only half your units can be in Reinforcements anyway, I'd allow ALL Drop Pods to arrive Turn 1. Even then it wouldn't be meta-breaking

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 Galef wrote:

Bharring wrote:
I'd love DPA be brought back as simply "half of all Drop Pods (round up) may arrive from reserve Turn 1." Not OP, and gives Marines a special schtick. It won't fix Marines - probably not even enough to fix Pods - but it'd be a good change.

Agreed. Heck, given that only half your units can be in Reinforcements anyway, I'd allow ALL Drop Pods to arrive Turn 1. Even then it wouldn't be meta-breaking

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Word. 1st turn landing would be great to get back. Posted this suggestion a while back but got caught up in some wacky "the real fix is no-igougo!".

Despite their cost, I used Drop Pods in 8th regularly up until they got limited to turn 2.

More in response to the OP, being closer to the enemy doesn't help much if you can't assault and get negatives-to-hit. I'd much prefer keeping them at 9+" away than begin hamstringing my potential damage output.

Yep, all drop pods need is a simple schtick, or something as simple as a Stratagem to make them vaguely worthwhile.

The best suggestion i have seen is a stratgem. Give 1 drop pod infiltrate for 1cp or 2 for 3 cp.

Its not a turn 1 deepstrike. Its arguably better than that since the units get to move charge and do whatever turn 1.

 Lance845 wrote:
The best suggestion i have seen is a stratgem. Give 1 drop pod infiltrate for 1cp or 2 for 3 cp.

Its not a turn 1 deepstrike. Its arguably better than that since the units get to move charge and do whatever turn 1.

Yep. I still think giving the option to deepstrike OR infiltrate in some fashion is a decent way to go. I'm not completely sure a stratagem is the way to go, but it works. Narratively, the idea is that the infiltrating pods slammed into the ground moments before the battle started (arguably makes more sense than pods showing up exactly on time after your ground forces start shooting). Mechanically, it gives you the option of using your pods to assert early game midfield board control and/or a way to deliver units into charge range on turn 1 (albeit with the risk of going second).

Arriving 1st turn is fine, but proposal to bypass the standard 9" rule can get muddy fast.

Anything that can guarantee anything is bad for a game of chance based strategy game.

These ideas are interesting, but doesn't address the fact that there's nothing worth putting in a pod anymore.

Having it as a stratagem is interesting, but seeing as how we are already having a hard time generating lots of CP without allies, I'd rather see it as something included into the DP datasheet.

I disagree that a Stratagem is needed. You are already paying the points for the Pod that becomes basically useless after it arrives anyway, why force the use of precious CPs?

Just change their "Drop Pod Assault" ability to also include a similar "infiltrate" option to deploy during deployment outside 9". That would bypass the T1 restriction outright, but also leave the option to drop in later if desired
Makes it more tactical in it's use and allows units to get close Turn 1, which would open up a lot of possibilities for Marines

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Again, which normal marines are worth a 70 point pod?

Lets move it to this.

Drop Pods can carry a Standard Drednaught again
Change Drop Pods to a 50 point model

Drop Pod Assault
One half, rounding up of drop pods arrive turn 1, the pod must arrive 12 inches away from an enemy model, marines when disembarking must end within 3 inches of the pod, any who cant are slain.

When set up, the arriving unit may immediately make a shooting attack as if it were the shooting phase.

So they arrive turn 1, may end 9 inches away if they'd like to try and charge, and get a double helping of shooting to make it actually matter they showed up.

Martel732 wrote:
Again, which normal marines are worth a 70 point pod?

In your opinion, none.

But for others it would make Tactical Marines with double special weapons somewhat ok. Assault Marines/Vanguard Vets that swap their packs would be able to be closer soon. SternGuard would be decent, etc.
The point isn't necessarily to make OP combos, but to give SOME viability to the Pod and units that could use it, neither of which are appealing without this change

 iGuy91 wrote:
Lets move it to this.

Drop Pods can carry a Standard Drednaught again
Change Drop Pods to a 50 point model

Drop Pod Assault
One half, rounding up of drop pods arrive turn 1, the pod must arrive 12 inches away from an enemy model, marines when disembarking must end within 3 inches of the pod.

When set up, the arriving unit may immediately make a shooting attack as if it were the shooting phase.

So they arrive turn 1, may end 9 inches away if they'd like to try and charge, and get a double helping of shooting to make it actually matter they showed up.

Dropping Dreads again would be good, but the rest of that seems unneeded. Just keep 'Drop Pod Assault' as-is, but add an optional deployment method that functions just like Scouts, which would bypass the T1 restriction outright.

And the "half" suggestion isn't needed either since you already can't put more than half your units in reserve anyway

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IF you let them get closer than 8", some flamer tricks might be worthwhile. But I don't see why I'd pay so many points to get two plasma guns in range.

Perhaps: Drop Pods and units inside them, do not count against the total number of points or units in your army, when determining how much you must have on the table at the start of a game, for the purposes of the Tactical Reserves Rule.

 Kcalehc wrote:
Perhaps: Drop Pods and units inside them, do not count against the total number of points or units in your army, when determining how much you must have on the table at the start of a game, for the purposes of the Tactical Reserves Rule.

But again, that would require a special exception to a rule that only applies to Matched play. A better solution is to just give Drop Pods and their passengers that ability to deploy on the table anywhere outside 9"of the enemy DZ and enemy units (just like Scouts). There are several units with this ability, thus setting precedence, and by adding this option to the Drop Pod assault rule, we can outright bypass the Tactical Reserves rule entirely.

So Drop Pod can either deploy Turn 1 and immediately disembark passengers, OR arrive Turn 2 onwards. Simple, uncomplicated.

Wolf Guard would love it.
Over-priced on every level and probably dead the very next turn but dropping a squad of Combi-plasma in someone's face on turn one would be most satisfying.

Do we really want to make the game even more alpha strike heavy?

That's the issue imo with droppods, too expensive, they don't see the light of the day, too cheap and or first turn availability > mass spam and more alpha strike then ever.

I'd argue that there's a bit of a difference between an Alpha Strike that can survive the retaliation and continue to apply pressure or delete units outright for a turn or two or three or the entire game because it's highly mobile, highly evasive or still on the other side of the battlefield and a Suicide Run that can potentially kill enough to ruin a strategy then evaporates and takes nearly a quarter of its owner's points with it.
Most of the units that can use Drop Pods are not mobile threats, they're not long ranged threats and they're not durable threats.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I'd argue that there's a bit of a difference between an Alpha Strike that can survive the retaliation and continue to apply pressure or delete units outright for a turn or two or three or the entire game because it's highly mobile, highly evasive or still on the other side of the battlefield and a Suicide Run that can potentially kill enough to ruin a strategy then evaporates and takes nearly a quarter of its owner's points with it.
Most of the units that can use Drop Pods are not mobile threats, they're not long ranged threats and they're not durable threats.

Sure, but basically not beeing able to stop or get a chance to stop such an assault, makes this still a better deal for the giver then the taker, and is part of why shock troops generally are not liked very much.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I'd argue that there's a bit of a difference between an Alpha Strike that can survive the retaliation and continue to apply pressure or delete units outright for a turn or two or three or the entire game because it's highly mobile, highly evasive or still on the other side of the battlefield and a Suicide Run that can potentially kill enough to ruin a strategy then evaporates and takes nearly a quarter of its owner's points with it.
Most of the units that can use Drop Pods are not mobile threats, they're not long ranged threats and they're not durable threats.

Sure, but basically not beeing able to stop or get a chance to stop such an assault, makes this still a better deal for the giver then the taker, and is part of why shock troops generally are not liked very much.

The whole point of shock troops is being dropped where they’re most unwelcome.

Funny thing is Drop Pods are kind of easy to thwart or at least mitigate if you aren’t limited to really low numbers like five Knights, they need space. Space for the pod and more space for the stuff coming out of it meaning they can be forced to drop outside rapid fire range on their preferred target, in uncomfortable spots or even in no man’s land.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I'd argue that there's a bit of a difference between an Alpha Strike that can survive the retaliation and continue to apply pressure or delete units outright for a turn or two or three or the entire game because it's highly mobile, highly evasive or still on the other side of the battlefield and a Suicide Run that can potentially kill enough to ruin a strategy then evaporates and takes nearly a quarter of its owner's points with it.
Most of the units that can use Drop Pods are not mobile threats, they're not long ranged threats and they're not durable threats.

Sure, but basically not beeing able to stop or get a chance to stop such an assault, makes this still a better deal for the giver then the taker, and is part of why shock troops generally are not liked very much.

The whole point of shock troops is being dropped where they’re most unwelcome.

Funny thing is Drop Pods are kind of easy to thwart or at least mitigate if you aren’t limited to really low numbers like five Knights, they need space. Space for the pod and more space for the stuff coming out of it meaning they can be forced to drop outside rapid fire range on their preferred target, in uncomfortable spots or even in no man’s land.

I do know what the point of shock troops is. I also do know that in the igougo scheme of things they become way to effective due to carrying all the momentum over the course of their assault.
Which is precicsly why Drop pods became an issue due to making nearly all units into shock troops that had not to suffer trough a turn of counter fire.

Also easy to thwart is relative.
Considering that only one army has dedicated anti shook units and the rest has to rely on chaff units.