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So I had this come up in a game tonight and we couldn't come to a consensus.

I drew Priority Orders and then drew Advance.

The problem is that under PO and I quote "Your Warlord is the only unit that can be used to achieve this bonus Tactical Objective" Advance "If no unit from your army is within your deployment zone"

So do I follow Advance and ensure that all my army is out the zone, or do I follow PO and ensure that my Warlord is out the zone?

Personally I think the second option is the correct one as the PO was drawn first and it states what unit has to be used to achieve it. If you expand the objective to include the rest of your army then you have broken that part of the card. The card itself explains that your Warlord has to be the only unit used to achieve the second card.

What does Dakka think?

Cheers

Andrew

Unfortunately, I think because of the contradiction, you would not be able to achieve this objective. Much like being asked to control every objective on the battlefield (domination) when you have POR on the battlefield or other unachievable objectives for a solo warlord.

Discard for 2cp and replace with New Orders strat or discard at the end of your phase seems to be the only option.

You can not achieve the conditions on the Objective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unless your warlord is the only model left in your army of course. then this strat is possible.

Agreed, unless your warlord is the only unit on the battlefield its impossible to achieve. We have a house rule to discard the card after its drawn, if its impossible to achieve. The new maelstrom of war CA 2018 missions allow you to remove 6 cards from the tactical objective cards deck to avoid these situations.

It's an impossible mission, unfortunately. The Priority Orders card throws this up frequently, to the point where it's pretty clear it wasn't very thoroughly playtested, or even thought about. I think the very first time we used Maelstrom in 8th PO was the first card we drew and it was similarly impossible.

So you guys think that because it states your Warlord is the only unit that can achieve this, that you cannot complete it if you have any other units on the table...........


LMAO

If all your units are outside of your deployment zone, guess what, your warlord has completed the advance card and gets his points.

Its free points.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So you guys think that because it states your Warlord is the only unit that can achieve this, that you cannot complete it if you have any other units on the table...........


LMAO

If all your units are outside of your deployment zone, guess what, your warlord has completed the advance card and gets his points.

Its free points.

Not really, we're concentrating on the PO card, which states quite clearly that the Warlord is the only unit that can be used to achieve the bonus. As soon as you require the input of other units the objective can't be scored. So in this case if you need other units in specific places to score the card then you can't achieve advance under PO.

So it's not free points.

Cheers

Andrew

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So you guys think that because it states your Warlord is the only unit that can achieve this, that you cannot complete it if you have any other units on the table...........


LMAO

If all your units are outside of your deployment zone, guess what, your warlord has completed the advance card and gets his points.

Its free points.

The problem is the wording says your warlord is the only[b] model that can achieve the mission, so if any other models are also required to complete the mission you can't actually ever complete it. There are other weird scenarios too, like if you draw "Secure Objective X" and your warlord is standing next the objective, alongside another of your units. You don't get the points for PO there either. Then there are cards like Area Denial, which are dependent on the position of enemy units, which can never apply to your warlord. The card is a huge mess, basically.

I would house rule as p5freak suggested that you are allowed to immediately replace any objective that is impossible to achieve.

The warlord is the only model scoring the objective, even if other models are required for the cards effect.


If you need a thematic explanation, the warlord barked out for everyone to get out of the deployment zone, and they did, so he achieved the mission.

 Stux wrote:
I would house rule as p5freak suggested that you are allowed to immediately replace any objective that is impossible to achieve.

Which is what we did, we redrew the card and got on with the game. It was too important to the game to roll off for.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The warlord is the only model scoring the objective, even if other models are required for the cards effect.


If you need a thematic explanation, the warlord barked out for everyone to get out of the deployment zone, and they did, so he achieved the mission.

That's just simply not what is written on the objective. Your warlord, and only your warlord, must participate in achieving it, end of story.
If the objective drawn for it doesn't allow for this, too bad.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The warlord is the only model scoring the objective, even if other models are required for the cards effect.


If you need a thematic explanation, the warlord barked out for everyone to get out of the deployment zone, and they did, so he achieved the mission.

That's a fantastic choice for a casual game, but at a tournament the RAW would hold. Whenever I'm playing Maelstrom at a tourney, I always appreciate it when the TO's choose the missions that allow you to tweak your Maelstrom deck by removing 6 cards, because it allows me to get rid of THIS SPECIFIC card. There are just so... SO many combinations where the "only your warlord can be used to score this objective" wording screws you around. There are 4 that are literally impossible, and another 10 that are fiendishly difficult. In total, that's 40% that are just ridiculously hard to achieve with this card. I throw it out every chance I get.

 Yarium wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The warlord is the only model scoring the objective, even if other models are required for the cards effect.


If you need a thematic explanation, the warlord barked out for everyone to get out of the deployment zone, and they did, so he achieved the mission.

That's a fantastic choice for a casual game, but at a tournament the RAW would hold. Whenever I'm playing Maelstrom at a tourney, I always appreciate it when the TO's choose the missions that allow you to tweak your Maelstrom deck by removing 6 cards, because it allows me to get rid of THIS SPECIFIC card. There are just so... SO many combinations where the "only your warlord can be used to score this objective" wording screws you around. There are 4 that are literally impossible, and another 10 that are fiendishly difficult. In total, that's 40% that are just ridiculously hard to achieve with this card. I throw it out every chance I get.

There were the new maelstrom rules in White Dwarf that let you do this.

however, nothing stops you from discarding the bonus TO with New Orders or at end of your turn.

PO only says if PO is discarded you discard the bonus one as well. So you could replace what TO is attached to PO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
maybe only with the New Orders, I don't think you'd generate a new one at the start of your turn.

 Yarium wrote:
...but at a tournament the RAW would hold...

Going to put you on the spot. What is the RAW then?

And @BCB, can you remember what issue that was?

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
...but at a tournament the RAW would hold...

Going to put you on the spot. What is the RAW then?

And @BCB, can you remember what issue that was?

Cheers

Andrew

June 2019.

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-new-maelstrom-rules-and-you-part-1/
https://www.goonhammer.com/the-new-maelstrom-rules-and-you-part-2/

Well, the RAW is to do just exactly whatever the cards say. Here they are, verbatim;

Priority Orders Received:

When this Tactical Objective is generated, immediately generate a bonus Tactical Objective - this does not count towards the number of Active Tactical Objectives you currently have in play. You Warlord is the only unit that can be used to achieve the bonus Tactical objective - they must be the only unit used to control an objective marker, the unit that destroys the last model in an enemy unit, and so on. If you achieve this, you score both the number of victory points stated on the bonus Tactical Objective and an additional 3 victory points. If this Tactical Objective is discarded, so too is the bonus Tactical Objective.

Advance:

Score 1 victory point if no unit from your army is within your deployment zone at the end of your turn.

So, Priority Orders Received is very, very clear that it can only be your Warlord that makes this happen. The example they give for controlling an objective marker is probably the best example of the two they give. They say your Warlord can be the ONLY unit used to control an objective marker. They do not say "Your Warlord, but if other people are around then that's fine too", which would imply that the Warlord was a part of controlling it. By that logic, we can immediately see that "being the only unit used to achieve this objective" means that the Warlord must not be in your deployment zone, and must be the ONLY unit not in your deployment zone. This is exactly equal to your Warlord being within 3" of the center of an objective, and must be the ONLY unit you control not within 3" of the center of that objective.

There exists but a single situation where that may be true; the Warlord is the last model in your army, and is not in your deployment zone. In that case, your are successfully fulfilling all the requirements of the cards; you have no models left in your deployment zone, and only your Warlord was used to achieve this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can see the argument for using the second example given in the card's text; "the last model in an enemy unit slain" clause. If I were to argue this to a TO in your favour, I would jump on this and try to say that you flip between a status of "destroyed" and "not destroyed", and in that case you can achieve it by having the "last" wound inflicted by your Warlord. Then I would equate this to moving all the models from your army out of your deployment zone, and having your Warlord be the LAST model moved out of your deployment zone, and in doing so that should qualify.

Again, I disagree, because this is like holding an objective, which is something that is only checked at the end of the round, as opposed to a unit being destroyed, which happens just the once in the moment that it happens. This is something that is more like the former, than the latter.

BaconCatBug wrote:June 2019.

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-new-maelstrom-rules-and-you-part-1/
https://www.goonhammer.com/the-new-maelstrom-rules-and-you-part-2/

I missed that. Interesting take in the blog.

Take

Andrew