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So at the beginning of the year I got back into warhammer by buying some DW veterans and the codex. Long story short I got myself entangled in playing Kill team. The problem I'm facing is at my local GW gaming night only one guy plays 40k and its KT, even my local gaming club no one plays KT there just 40k. I feel like I'm missing out on the social side of the hobby because my local meta is basically gak. I'm wounded i have to spend loads more money to make an actual army to be part of a community.

The good thing about KT is i bought lots of different kits to make my marines unique. Going into 40k I have 3 DW veteran boxes, x1 Intercessor box, x1 hellblaster box, x1 assault terminator box, x1 tactical marine box, x1 sternguard box, x1 command squad, x1 old devastator squad. It's a start but it's all infantry which worrys me. What to do next. I want to combine my space marines with my Deathwatch so I can make use of what I've got and field a decent looking side. I bet people don't approve of imperial soup but whatever I'm not minted and just want to play the game with my models.

I'm just got the SM codex and haven't looked at it in detail. I fancy getting the new devastator squad so I can make a squad of 10, I've currently got 3 heavy bolters and 2 missile lauchers, so I'll add more of them. Apart from that I don't know. How important is it to have tank fire power? I'm interest in what you think I should add to my lot of my marines. I've just fired off what's on my mind. Any input will be appreciated cheers.

Try to find people in your local community that aren't hyper-competitive players and you'll do just fine. One of the things I love about 8th edition is that your infantry units really matter and have some big benefits over non-infantry units (walking through walls, going up ruins, easier access to cover, etc.). Deathwatch marines are extremely potent marines to boot, with your whole army getting the special ammunition, and loads of benefits for mixing and matching units.

Soup is pretty much just taken as a given now. Don't feel bad for running it.

You will lose a lot of games as you learn 40k, so don't get discouraged. Cut your teeth right now on these games, and learn as you go. You'll have a lot of fun with Deathwatch! Once you have a few games under your belt, you'll have a much better understanding of why some of the suggestions you'll be receiving may matter. Right now, I would say focus on not trying to be everywhere. Your guys are extra lethal, but they die just like regular Marines. Try to split your opponent's forces apart so you can turn your entire army on just a part of their army. Once that part is eliminated, return to the other half. Consider units that allow you to perform this function better. Don't be afraid of the sacrifice play either.

Good luck!

It sounds like you actually have quite a sizeable force with all of those boxes. Building them up into full, legal 40k squads will be the first step, but most of those you could definitely use in pure Deathwatch.

I'd say a good thing to add might be a couple of Razorbacks. Those with Assault Cannons on top are a pretty good small transport for 5-man deathwatch squads and add some good toughness and firepower to your army. They're also not too expensive points or money wise.

One of the nice things about Deathwatch is that because of the relative expense points-wise of the models, you can fill out a 1500 or 2000 point list very quickly. It sounds like the only thing you might need are a couple of HQ's to fill out a battalion detachment, and then fill in the last points you need with whatever models you like the most!

I wouldn’t worry about soup, especially Space Marine soup. People don’t like it because some people cherry pick the best units from 3 different forces, not because there’s 2 different types of marines.

Macabre Galatic wrote:
How important is it to have tank fire power?

IMO very.

But all you need to do to answer this for yourself is to go look at what people are actually playing in your gaming club.

There's most likely a new space marine codex coming out in the next month or two so might want to hold off for that.

ccs wrote:

Macabre Galatic wrote:
How important is it to have tank fire power?

IMO very.

But all you need to do to answer this for yourself is to go look at what people are actually playing in your gaming club.

I don't agree with that you need tanks for firepower at all.

Most lists have something in them that are good against tanks so if you only show up with 1-3 vehicles and can't hide them then they are usually very juicy targets for your enemies anti tank weapons. Going full on with vehicles so you have more tanks than they have anti tank guns is one way to go or you could go with just infantry. If you only have relative cheap,compared to tanks, infantry models then your opponent isn't going to be happy when he turns his expensive anti tank guns and kill at most a single marine with each shot. Also way easier to hide infantry so they can't be targeted at all.

Just make sure you have options if the opponent have lots of tanks and you don't. A thunder hammer to the face is probably the best anti tank marines can field and they are not on tanks And if that doesn't suit you then there are quite a few infantry options with high firepower comparable to tanks.

My advice is to don't get back into 40k. 40k is in a very bad place right now. You're better off playing Kill Team or Apocalypse. If your local club has any semblance of sense they should soon realise that playing 100-150 PL apoc games is a far better experience than 2k 40k games.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
My advice is to don't get back into 40k. 40k is in a very bad place right now. You're better off playing Kill Team or Apocalypse. If your local club has any semblance of sense they should soon realise that playing 100-150 PL apoc games is a far better experience than 2k 40k games.

My advice meanwhile is to ignore anything BCB says

BrianDavion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
My advice is to don't get back into 40k. 40k is in a very bad place right now. You're better off playing Kill Team or Apocalypse. If your local club has any semblance of sense they should soon realise that playing 100-150 PL apoc games is a far better experience than 2k 40k games.

My advice meanwhile is to ignore anything BCB says

I think he has a good point. And he gave valid alternatives.

Gitdakka wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
My advice is to don't get back into 40k. 40k is in a very bad place right now. You're better off playing Kill Team or Apocalypse. If your local club has any semblance of sense they should soon realise that playing 100-150 PL apoc games is a far better experience than 2k 40k games.

My advice meanwhile is to ignore anything BCB says

I think he has a good point. And he gave valid alternatives.

The OP is asking for input on how to do it, not people's opinions of the state of the meta.

As other posters have said, there's rumors of a new Space Marine Codex coming, you'd do well to wait. As a matter of fact, you might want to return the Codex you recently purchased, it could be obsolete in a few weeks.

Most of the Deathwatch lists I've played are heavy on infantry, they have exceptional firepower and you want to play to your strengths. You can look at some winning competitive lists on BoK to see how other people build their armies.

Your question - how important is it to have tank firepower - is complicated. Yes, it's important to have, but the units in the Deathwatch Codex are overcosted compared to other options. Assassin / Mechanicum / Guard detachments are popular choices for adding heavier guns. A Cadian detachment featuring Leman Russes / Basilisks / Valkyries will go a lot further on the tabletop. A couple Vindicare assassins can make a huge difference in the performance of your army.

Please keep the discussion polite and on topic.
Thanks,
ingtaer.

Cheers for all the input guys, didn't expect this much to digest, it's all good tho.

So I know near enough nothing about the rules of 40k but I do know that this 8th edition is the best one yet, in terms of mechanics and how easy it is to understand. So why have some of you said 40k is in a bad place right now? I don't want to get full blown into 40k but my local meta options I have are - play the only guy I know who plays KT or join my gaming club that is all about 40k, so I can get more social, helps that it's in a big room in a pub. Booze lol.

There’s loads of reasons people complain. The rules are kind of spread all over the show. There’s lots of documents needed, and at one point (may still be the case) there was an FAQ answer that was only on the Facebook page. If you’re just looking to get some games in down the boozer, sounds like a double win to me! I wouldn’t worry about what people consider issues.

Macabre Galatic wrote:
Cheers for all the input guys, didn't expect this much to digest, it's all good tho.

So I know near enough nothing about the rules of 40k but I do know that this 8th edition is the best one yet, in terms of mechanics and how easy it is to understand. So why have some of you said 40k is in a bad place right now? I don't want to get full blown into 40k but my local meta options I have are - play the only guy I know who plays KT or join my gaming club that is all about 40k, so I can get more social, helps that it's in a big room in a pub. Booze lol.

8th edition is in a great place to learn the game. Or rather was. Mechanically it is broad as a ocean, deep as a puddle.

it is also now a relatively bloated mess with a lot of differing books more or less required to gain the full efficency of an army. (DW codex + CA + FAQ is absolutely required. meaning that you pay for 2 books at the very least)

Overall IT IS a lot better balanced then it was for a long time so there's that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

phillv85 wrote:
There’s loads of reasons people complain. The rules are kind of spread all over the show. There’s lots of documents needed, and at one point (may still be the case) there was an FAQ answer that was only on the Facebook page. If you’re just looking to get some games in down the boozer, sounds like a double win to me! I wouldn’t worry about what people consider issues.

ayy.
Beer and pretzels still works fine enough.

People complain, mostly, because they want to turn 40K into something it isn't - then they get mad when it doesn't work and damn GW for delivering a product that isn't fit for a purpose it wasn't designed to fulfill.

Entitlement, basically.

There are some astonishing gaps and oversights in the rules, but if you don't ever buy a Forge World book you won't encounter any of them and they can all be resolved with common sense or a roll-off.

EDIT - Also, hail Scarborough. I was born in Harrogate and raised in York/Leeds.

Macabre Galatic wrote:
Cheers for all the input guys, didn't expect this much to digest, it's all good tho.

So I know near enough nothing about the rules of 40k but I do know that this 8th edition is the best one yet, in terms of mechanics and how easy it is to understand. So why have some of you said 40k is in a bad place right now? I don't want to get full blown into 40k but my local meta options I have are - play the only guy I know who plays KT or join my gaming club that is all about 40k, so I can get more social, helps that it's in a big room in a pub. Booze lol.

Unfortunately, you'll find that there are a lot of people on Dakka that say you shouldn't even play the game. There are even people here that literally say they aren't playing the game. I find it's generally best to ignore such advice - you can here because you're enjoying the game, not to hear how you shouldn't enjoy the game.

If we ignore the people that just say you shouldn't play though, and instead focus on "what is a weakness of the game", then there are some issues that people have.

#1 - Burnout. It can happen with any game, but since it takes so long to play a 40k game compared to some other games, burnout can feel especially hurtful in 40k. You sink maybe $80 into a cool new unit, get a couple games in with it, and maybe then realize that the unit isn't living up to what you hoped it would do, and now it's just a pretty model in your collection as opposed to a fun unit you're playing with. This is compounded by a strong release schedule, frequent FAQs/changes, and a meta that can shift very quickly, meaning even your top-tier armies/units may not get a whole ton of games in to really feel like they were worth the cost. NOTE: This only tends to happen when you get involved with the competitive folks, or your group starts turning competitive as you rush to "keep up" with friends that drop a bunch of money, get a ton of amazing more competitive stuff, and then you feel like you're stuck losing game after game.

#2 - Arm-Chair Generalling. A LOT of people on Dakka say the game doesn't have much depth. Often they're saying that because the game lacks complexity. Other editions had rules for vehicle wrecks, or jumping down ledges, or facings, etc. and these things are gone. Now, statline-wise, there's very little difference between a vehicle and a non-vehicle unit. However, 40k is indeed quite deep. There is a lot to learn, and a lot to remember, and lots of important decisions that you need to make. For example; models in a unit have a unit coherency of 2", so each model must remain within 2" of another model, right? Well, there's a lot of play in that. You can morph the foot-print of your unit to stay tight together and holed up behind line of sight, or ensure that chargers can't fit between the bases of your models, or block off an area from your opponent. You can instead stretch out, keeping the unit in range of an aura-benefit, or holding 2 objectives at once, or blocking off a larger deep-strike bubble. You can form circles near a character for heroic intervention or provide bubble-wrap to prevent enemies from tagging a powerful shooter from getting stuck in close combat. So, there's a few options for how to keep that unit in coherency, but the important depth is in making the right decision in the moment, because you get a lot to choose from, it's easy to miss a possibly better play, or worse you'll think a play is optimal when an opponent then shows you that, nope, you were wrong and this play is actually a horrible idea.

#3 - Wanting to play a different game. Again, a LOT of Dakka-ites self-profess to this one; they want to play a different game. Thankfully, for some people, this dream has come true through Apocalypse, Kill Team, and 30k (Horus Heresy). Apocalypse is great for people that want to play in the 40k universe, but have massive battles. The regular 40k system, and the game-play it encourages, do not tend to be very conducive to a fun massive battle game, so Apocalypse is very appreciated (mark my words though, on Dakka, give it 3 months and people will be complaining about "X is broken/useless" or "why don't they do X? The game would be so much better!"). Kill Team is phenomenal for tight squad-based gameplay. Again, the regular 40k system isn't so hot at small-scale battles, where a particularly resilient or deadly unit can end the game suddenly and lead to a bad play experience. Lastly, there are some people that really miss some of the fiddly-bits of older editions, like an all-or-nothing AP system, vehicle facings, and vehicle armour, and those folks tend to love 30k Horus Heresy.