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While my local meta is nowhere near uber-competitive, I have often found that my Death Guard lack anti-tank and anti-monster firepower, and I'm not a fan of blighthaulers or PBCs. So I've settled on havocs, and their natural T5 fits with the rest of the army (also the reason why my chaos lord is on a palanquin).
The only other quirk of this army list is that the DP is from the Chaos Daemons codex - giving him Fleshy Abundance to keep the FBDs in the fight for longer.

Havocs are to begin the game out of LOS with the sorcerer, while the PMs hold the line behind the FBDs to deter first turn charges (one of my regular opponents plays tyranids).
FBDs rush the enemy to clear out chaff and as a vanguard. Havocs move out of cover to take out tanks/monsters/targets of opportunity. Warptime on the chaincannon havocs to get them within range (I seldom find my FBDs get within range the first turn). PMs provide fire support and hold on to objectives. Blightlords deploy T2 to open up a second front and take objectives.

Any advice or thoughts on the list?


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Death Guard) [53 PL, 817pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord on Palanquin [6 PL, 107pts]: combi-bolter
ARTEFACT: Fugaris' Helm
WARLORD: Arch-Contaminator

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: POWERS: Smite, Miasma of Pestilence, Blades of Putrefaction

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [20 PL, 287pts]:
. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. 6x Blightlord Terminators w/ Bubotic Axe & Combi-Bolter

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [7 PL, 113pts]:
. Plague Champion: plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marines w/plasma guns
. 2x Plague Marines w/boltguns

Plague Marines [7 PL, 100pts]:
. Plague Champion: boltgun
. 2x Plague Marines w/blight launchers
. 2x Plague Marines w/boltguns

Plague Marines [7 PL, 100pts]:
. Plague Champion: boltgun
. 2x Plague Marines w/blight launchers
. 2x Plague Marines w/boltguns

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Nurgle) [33 PL, 654pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Daemon of Nurgle, wings, 2xmalefic talons
POWERS: Smite, Fleshy Abundance

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat Drone [8 PL, 158pts]: plague probe, 2x plague spitters

Foetid Bloat Drone [8 PL, 158pts]: plague probe, 2x plague spitters

Foetid Bloat Drone [8 PL, 158pts]: plague probe, 2x plague spitters

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos Space Marines: The Purge) [27 PL, 528pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Sorcerer [6PL, 98pts]: Mark of Nurgle, force stave
POWERS: Smite, Prescience, Warptime

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 150pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannons
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Havocs [7 PL, 140pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 3x Havoc w/ missile launchers
. 1x Havoc w/ autocannon
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Havocs [7 PL, 140pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 2x Havoc w/ lascannons
. 2x Havoc w/ autocannons
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Warptime on the sorcerer for the purge detachment seems odd to me personally, deathhex or miasma would make more sense.

Looks fun to play with a fair bit of synergy. I'd just make a couple of small changes.

I think the psychic powers could be mixed up a little better too. If you can find the points I'd put the sorcerer on a bike or at least a jump pack. You could give him infernal gaze which would let you target a unit for all your havocs to get full rerolls against. If he's more mobile you can also give him death hex as he'd be able to get within 12" of that riptide or hive tyrant.

You could maybe drop a unit of plaguemarines for a unit of poxwalkers to make the points and they can be used as a cheaper screen than the marines for that first turn genenstealer charge.

I did think about using poxwalkers - but actually the FBDs work well as screening units - and with the amount of overwatch they can put out, he'll want to charge from more than 9" away, making a first turn charge less likely.

Thank you both for your psychic suggestions! My understanding of the Purge rules is that you don't specifically need a Purge model to inflict the initial wounds - just that the enemy unit has suffered wounds this turn - but I suppose it's more efficient to get the buff by a targeted MW spell rather than wasting the firepower (such as it is) of the PMs.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
I did think about using poxwalkers - but actually the FBDs work well as screening units - and with the amount of overwatch they can put out, he'll want to charge from more than 9" away, making a first turn charge less likely.

Thank you both for your psychic suggestions! My understanding of the Purge rules is that you don't specifically need a Purge model to inflict the initial wounds - just that the enemy unit has suffered wounds this turn - but I suppose it's more efficient to get the buff by a targeted MW spell rather than wasting the firepower (such as it is) of the PMs.

For what it's worth, consider marker lords with combi plas.

A lord or two with combi-plasma might do the trick, but I'd have to drop something from the list to find the points.

In addition, what are your thoughts on the weapon options for the havocs? Should I look to pick up more lascannons? What are your experiences with autocannons - it's fairly heretical that as a chaos player I have little experience with them!

 Drakeslayer wrote:
A lord or two with combi-plasma might do the trick, but I'd have to drop something from the list to find the points.

In addition, what are your thoughts on the weapon options for the havocs? Should I look to pick up more lascannons? What are your experiences with autocannons - it's fairly heretical that as a chaos player I have little experience with them!

The purge sadly does not have access to VotWL. So higher strengthAt might be necessary.
Normally i am an autocannon fetishist, as in havocs with Autocannons are imo good, BUT i run alpha legion. Or slaanesh RC, which allow me to bypass the S7 to T8 by vollume .

Purge might be good enough by allowing an extremely high hitquote, IF you manage to mark enough stuff.-

Hmm, more lascannons it is then. The list might require some reworking.

As for markers, sorcerer with smite and Infernal Gaze, chaos lord with the Daemon Shells strat, and maybe a Malignant Plaguecaster with Plague Wind (for large mobs) all give some relatively reliable ways to shell out mortal wounds - with only smite being limited to closest enemy unit.
I suppose the Orb of Unlife also works quite well on that score - I don't *really* need Fugaris' Helm given that I'll probably go down to 2 PM squads (and some poxwalkers) and so the lord won't have to stretch the aura.

Yeah I think if you can squeeze in 2 lascannon and 2 reaper in each squad you're more able to keep some of what you need alive. Because you're not getting VotLW or endless cacophony you can mix and mach without too many penalties. You might not get all the reapers in range turn 1 but you'll still get 2 in and have 4 on standby.

Then you have some redundancy instead of say lootas or Daredeos or even mortars focusing down on who ever is likely to cause them most problems, with their indirect fire.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Hmm, more lascannons it is then. The list might require some reworking.

As for markers, sorcerer with smite and Infernal Gaze, chaos lord with the Daemon Shells strat, and maybe a Malignant Plaguecaster with Plague Wind (for large mobs) all give some relatively reliable ways to shell out mortal wounds - with only smite being limited to closest enemy unit.
I suppose the Orb of Unlife also works quite well on that score - I don't *really* need Fugaris' Helm given that I'll probably go down to 2 PM squads (and some poxwalkers) and so the lord won't have to stretch the aura.

Go for miasma of pestilence instead, and prescience or deathhex imo.

Miasma is good for that indirect fire your havocs will get. Prescience as a failsafe.

Oh and give them sorcerer a combi weapon too so that he aswell as psychically can help also helps marking.

Have you considered making the purge a Devastation battery?

The free shots at the end of the enemy's movement if they get first turn is pretty good as is the field commander trait (6" bubble buff, re roll wound rolls of 1 against vehicles.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Have you considered making the purge a Devastation battery?

The free shots at the end of the enemy's movement if they get first turn is pretty good as is the field commander trait (6" bubble buff, re roll wound rolls of 1 against vehicles.

Could be fancy with lascannons or autocannons.

I agree with ulf here!

Thank you all for your suggestions!

I wonder whether I need reapers, given that I can put out a decent amount of anti-infantry with the FBDs. I could instead go for heavy bolters for the range, or autocannons which would fit well alongside lascannons so that range really isn't an issue.

Not Online!!! Sound psychic advice there - and I'll look into fitting in a combi-weapon. Might have to remove a blightlord to free up some points.

Ulf, I did think about the Devastation Battery, but my regular opponents bring Tyranids and Tau (with suits), so few VEHICLES which means the Warlord trait wouldn't be as useful. I'd also have to give up Arch-Contaminator meaning my DG lose a lot of their potency.
The free shots is very tasty, and might well be worth it - not like DG have any brilliant strats to spend CP on in any case.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Thank you all for your suggestions!

I wonder whether I need reapers, given that I can put out a decent amount of anti-infantry with the FBDs. I could instead go for heavy bolters for the range, or autocannons which would fit well alongside lascannons so that range really isn't an issue.

Not Online!!! Sound psychic advice there - and I'll look into fitting in a combi-weapon. Might have to remove a blightlord to free up some points.

Ulf, I did think about the Devastation Battery, but my regular opponents bring Tyranids and Tau (with suits), so few VEHICLES which means the Warlord trait wouldn't be as useful. I'd also have to give up Arch-Contaminator meaning my DG lose a lot of their potency.
The free shots is very tasty, and might well be worth it - not like DG have any brilliant strats to spend CP on in any case.

No, you just pay an additional CP for field commander.
That way you gain an extra Warlord/trait.

and since you neitehr have Votwl or Cacophony to worry about that seems like an actually decent investment.

But if you stated that your meta has few tanks then actually AC's might be better. Vollume with that -1 AP can seriously dent the heavier infantry and monsters you seem to face often.

Also the statagem to shoot into melee is good and fun especially if you tie the enemy up with poxwalkers then use the day of the dead stratagem while a purge havoks squad fires into them, killing some pox but replenishing more from killed enemies.

Not Online!!! Thanks for that - I'd quite forgotten that's how Field Commander works.

Ulf, you're an evil genius - that's brilliant! Will definitely look to work that into the list.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Not Online!!! Thanks for that - I'd quite forgotten that's how Field Commander works.

Ulf, you're an evil genius - that's brilliant! Will definitely look to work that into the list.

Muhahaha.
One last thing I just thought of is a potential swap of havoks for obliterators (cheaper and more surviveable) and squeezing in some nurgle deamons, so you can heal obliterators, the drones and other deamons
If your short on cp I do like the Traitorous 20 with some rogue psychers for cheap and reliable smites to trigger the purges ability.

Please Don't take this as critizem at all, I'm an ideas guy. I vomit out ideas and sees what sticks to the wall.

Praise Nurgle.

Obliterators is something I could do - I've already got the models, but I've always found them to be very swingy. I'll either bomb on damage or on strength, and then they'll fail to kill what I wanted em to, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth given how much they cost. But it is certainly a list I could see myself running.

Do the Traitorous 20 actually generate CP? I thought there were some limitations with the Blackstone traitors.

All thoughts and criticism are welcome!

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Obliterators is something I could do - I've already got the models, but I've always found them to be very swingy. I'll either bomb on damage or on strength, and then they'll fail to kill what I wanted em to, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth given how much they cost. But it is certainly a list I could see myself running.

Do the Traitorous 20 actually generate CP? I thought there were some limitations with the Blackstone traitors.

All thoughts and criticism are welcome!

Command rerolls. You remember they exist?

Yes I recall, but I've never had any luck with obliterators. Example: I roll for S, and roll a 1. My target has T8 so I use the re-roll, and re-roll it into another 1. And then when I come to roll up for damage, I also roll low, and then I've already used the command re-roll.

I know this sounds like one of those things, and it is, except it's happened nearly every game in which I've deployed oblits. That's why I'm only lukewarm on them.

If you are never lucky, then yes oblits are not for you i know that feeling

Ah, I'm not salty - it's always a great laugh when it happens and I've had friends offer to buy me new dice.
After a while I've just decided to treat it like Darkest Dungeon and to try and reduce how much RNG determines the game.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Ah, I'm not salty - it's always a great laugh when it happens and I've had friends offer to buy me new dice.
After a while I've just decided to treat it like Darkest Dungeon and to try and reduce how much RNG determines the game.

Indeed, yet still i get annoyed when I constantly lowroll.
Especially if I field my renegades, i mean i scrape the barrell quite figuratively with my 31. Mechanized and now the dice gods deem it fair to punish me further?
Why!

Edit :
To come to the point, have you considered bikers for the purge detachment?

Sorry to hear about your unlucky renegades - bad enough without the dice gods shafting you.

It just so happens that I've got about 9 nurgle bikers - a holdover from 6th and 7th (yes I did that, no I'm not ashamed of my T6 bikers). I've also got a biker lord/sorcerer to lead them in an outrider detachment.

Combined with the FBDs, they make for an atypically speedy nurgle army, and they have proved successful in the past, though they left the PMs in the dust.

Supposing I were to take the FBD + DP detachment, and the Devastation Battery with some bikers, what should I do about the battalion? feel like that is the weak link.

Honestly?
I have no idea, if you were any other legion i'd put down a bunch of cultists and folded the bikers into the battalion.

For me plague marines did work though, i play them and my ghostly new additions sometimes as plague marines of the AL Brand.

Alternative if you explained to me for what you the cp need i might be better able to judge.
I do not really know deathguard.

I mostly suggested the bikers because of the ammount of shots a 3 man unit can vomit out.
With the purge rerolls that would be rather nasty for such a cheap unit.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Obliterators is something I could do - I've already got the models, but I've always found them to be very swingy. I'll either bomb on damage or on strength, and then they'll fail to kill what I wanted em to, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth given how much they cost. But it is certainly a list I could see myself running.

Do the Traitorous 20 actually generate CP? I thought there were some limitations with the Blackstone traitors.

All thoughts and criticism are welcome!

Yeah you can make a battalion for cp.
I'll post the basic but with the purge I'd add 2x rogue psychers for 30 points each to trigger purge abilities.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Servants of the Abyss) [13 PL, 194pts] ++

+ HQ +

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

+ Troops +

Chaos Beastmen [1 PL, 24pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

++ Total: [13 PL, 194pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Obliterators is something I could do - I've already got the models, but I've always found them to be very swingy. I'll either bomb on damage or on strength, and then they'll fail to kill what I wanted em to, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth given how much they cost. But it is certainly a list I could see myself running.

Do the Traitorous 20 actually generate CP? I thought there were some limitations with the Blackstone traitors.

All thoughts and criticism are welcome!

Yeah you can make a battalion for cp.
I'll post the basic but with the purge I'd add 2x rogue psychers for 30 points each to trigger purge abilities.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Servants of the Abyss) [13 PL, 194pts] ++

+ HQ +

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

+ Troops +

Chaos Beastmen [1 PL, 24pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

++ Total: [13 PL, 194pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Tbh, the Traitorous 32 are still better and even cheaper.

Renegades and heretics i mean.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Obliterators is something I could do - I've already got the models, but I've always found them to be very swingy. I'll either bomb on damage or on strength, and then they'll fail to kill what I wanted em to, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth given how much they cost. But it is certainly a list I could see myself running.

Do the Traitorous 20 actually generate CP? I thought there were some limitations with the Blackstone traitors.

All thoughts and criticism are welcome!

Yeah you can make a battalion for cp.
I'll post the basic but with the purge I'd add 2x rogue psychers for 30 points each to trigger purge abilities.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Servants of the Abyss) [13 PL, 194pts] ++

+ HQ +

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

+ Troops +

Chaos Beastmen [1 PL, 24pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

++ Total: [13 PL, 194pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Tbh, the Traitorous 32 are still better and even cheaper.

Renegades and heretics i mean.

Not Online and I disagree on this part lol.
The disloyal 32 is cheaper by 24 points and is more bodies but the Traitorous 20 have twice the armour save, better hit chance and better leadership (will almost never lose anything to moral tests). Also better in melee and can kill a guardsman for +3 to advance or charge rolls for that unit (21" charge threat range 16" average) and the beastmen hit with 3x str 5 attacks on the charge each. Not to mention access to 30 point psychers which would benefit purge units.
So personally I go with the 20>32 but Not Online is really good, so I think it's just a matter of preferance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again that is just if you need cp and can't fit a deamon detachment in.

Tbf, I don't really need a battalion for CP - the whole point of the list is that it should generate a lot of its own re-rolls and be generally self-sufficient.

I'll need 2CP for the Devastation Battery (one for the detachment and then a spare for the free shooting in the event I don't get first turn). Other than that, I don't plan on throwing around that many strats. Maybe VotLW for the Blightlords.

I'll write up a new list when I get home today.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Obliterators is something I could do - I've already got the models, but I've always found them to be very swingy. I'll either bomb on damage or on strength, and then they'll fail to kill what I wanted em to, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth given how much they cost. But it is certainly a list I could see myself running.

Do the Traitorous 20 actually generate CP? I thought there were some limitations with the Blackstone traitors.

All thoughts and criticism are welcome!

Yeah you can make a battalion for cp.
I'll post the basic but with the purge I'd add 2x rogue psychers for 30 points each to trigger purge abilities.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Servants of the Abyss) [13 PL, 194pts] ++

+ HQ +

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

Traitor Commissar [4 PL, 50pts]

+ Troops +

Chaos Beastmen [1 PL, 24pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

Traitor Guardsmen [2 PL, 35pts]

++ Total: [13 PL, 194pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Tbh, the Traitorous 32 are still better and even cheaper.

Renegades and heretics i mean.

Not Online and I disagree on this part lol.
The disloyal 32 is cheaper by 24 points and is more bodies but the Traitorous 20 have twice the armour save, better hit chance and better leadership. Also better in melee and can kill a guardsman for +3 to advance or charge rolls for that unit (21" charge threat range 16" average) and the beastmen hit with 3x str 5 attacks on the charge each. Not to mention access to 30 point psychers which would benefit purge units.
So personally I go with the 20>32 but Not Online is really good, so I think it's just a matter of preferance.

What better leadership?

5 is equal to average 5.
The beastmen will never get into melee regardless so they can be discarded, they are such a small unit they also can't hold a line. Have no ranged weapon that is worth the salt. the traitor guardsmen themsevles are stupid equipped, flamer melee equipment in some cases even lacking laspistol or melee weapon for a single grenade. and sacrificing a member for 3 inch more advance, on a unit that DOES NOT want to enter melee ( and i say that as a khornate R&H player) is hillariously stupid.

For 24 pts i get 3 mortars, a weapon that is extremely usefull for the purge trait and fills an actuall weakness of CSM namely no indirect fire.
or better 4 Heavy weapon teams with heavy stubbers and 2 heavy stubbers in the units.

In case of Weaponry the Commander of the renegades beats the commisar 9/10 times. (by costing literally half as much and having acess to chainsword and a lasgun)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Tbf, I don't really need a battalion for CP - the whole point of the list is that it should generate a lot of its own re-rolls and be generally self-sufficient.

I'll need 2CP for the Devastation Battery (one for the detachment and then a spare for the free shooting in the event I don't get first turn). Other than that, I don't plan on throwing around that many strats. Maybe VotLW for the Blightlords.

I'll write up a new list when I get home today.

then you could say feth the battalion and just go with the good units?

as hillarious as this sounds, that might actually work with that army setup and factions you have chosen.