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Hey everyone I was playing a game yesterday and ran into a rules snag about extra attacks.

The pieces in play are the Abdominant, a Hypermorph Abberant with a Heavy Improvised Weapon (the stop sign), and a Regular Abberant with a Power Pick. The abberants had Might from Beyond on them +1 attack +1 str. within the auras of a Abdominant, Primus, and Iconoward with the Relic +1 Str flag.

Abdominant "The Chosen One: Each unmodified hit roll of 6 for attacks made in the Fight phase by friendly <CULT> ABERRANT units within 6" of this model scores 2 hits instead of 1."

Hypermorph Abberant 4 attacks + tail, so 8 attacks with the HIW, 1 with the tail.
Heavy Imp Weapon "Make 2 hit rolls for each attack made with this weapon."

Abberant had 3 attacks with the power pick, 3 attack with rending claws
Power Pick "Each time a model with a rending claw makes an attack with this weapon, it can make one additional attack with its rending claw."

I then used Overthrow the oppressors on them. While fighting against ADEPTUS MECHANICUS

"Use this Stratagem before a BLADED COG unit (excluding GENESTEALER units) from your army is selected to fight in the Fight phase. Until the end of the phase, each time you roll an unmodified hit roll of 6 for an attack by a model in that unit, that model can immediately make an additional hit roll against the same target using the same weapon. [b]These bonus attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks[/b]. These extra attacks are instead generated on unmodified hit rolls of 5 or 6 when targeting IMPERIUM units, or on unmodified rolls of 4, 5 or 6 when targeting ADEPTUS MECHANICUS units."

The bolded, underlined sentence is in question.

My rolls with the hypermorph were HIW 1,2,4,5,5,6,6,6 and Tail 6, , extra generated hit rolls rolls with HIW, 1,3,4,5,5,6,6,6,6,4, With the Tail 6, (dice were on fire)

Question 1, when using the HIW for the extra attacks do you make 2 attack rolls or 1? I used the weapon profile for 2 attacks.


Then the normal Abberant fought a different ADEPTUS MECHANICUS unit.

Power Pick Attacks 5,6,6, rending Claw 4,4,4. Extra Generated rolls Power Pick 3,6,5. Rending Claw 3,3,3. Extra power pick generated Rending claw Attacks 3,6,4

This is the crux of question 2, do the extra Power Pick attacks generate more Rending Claw attacks based on the weapon profile? If so, are they governed as new attacks which can trigger overthrow the oppressors?

At this point I had 2 models throw out like 40 hits so I didn't feel the need to dip into that extra reserve of 2 more attacks.

To recap, under the rules of "Overthrow the Oppressors"

Question 1

When using the HIW for the extra attacks do you make 2 attack rolls or 1? I used the weapon profile for 2 attacks.

Question 2
Do the extra Power Pick attacks generate more Rending Claw attacks based on the weapon profile? If so, are they governed as new attacks which can trigger overthrow the oppressors?

Thanks!

Each attack has two hit rolls, so with the Improvised Weapon, each extra attack makes two hit rolls.

Unclear on the wording of Power Picks, so no answer from me for them.

The Power Pick rule says "Each time a model with a Rending Claw makes an attack with this weapon, it may make one additional attack with it's Rending Claw"

As it doesn't say "When a model with a Rending Claw attacks with this weapon etc" it specifically means for every attack made gives you the same amount of rending claw attacks.
So every attack made with a pick, including additionally generated ones, should generate a separate Rending Claw attack. At least that's what I gather from that.

So using the weapon profile dictates these extra attacks. The question still stands can the 2nd iteration extra rending claw attacks trigger the overthrow the oppesssors. In the case above it didnt matter that much. But a full squad of pick abberants fighting a knight might mean 10 extra attacks ontop of the base. It creates and onion of attacks and extra attack generation.

I agree with the above interpretations, but I will point out there might be some issues the way you have quoted since one set of rules uses the term Attack (as in for each attack made, or perhaps the attack statistic) and the other uses the words "to hit roll" (overthrow the oppressor). Once again this may simply be poor GW and not using the same term for same thing, but is an "additional to hit roll" the same as an attack roll?
This of course goes straight to the question of the HIW getting two rolls to hit or one...

I see them as the same, and am certainly not arguing this side, since the follow up says "these bonus ATTACKS..." but there have been similar discrepancies argued different ways in this and other forums.

As to the extra, extra attacks, I believe each extra attack with the pick generates a claw attack as stated above. The phrase "additional attacks can not generate more attacks" seems to say that any time you roll the dice for the additional generated attacks (which the rending claw attacks are coming from via the pick), all rules generating additional attacks are gone, since there is no statement that the statement only applies to one weapon, stratagem, power, ability, etc.

I will admit I'm not 100% on this though, as the word "these" can mean only the specific attacks generated by the stratagem, and not the claw attacks generated by the pick. This is a tough one.

dreadlybrew wrote:
So using the weapon profile dictates these extra attacks. The question still stands can the 2nd iteration extra rending claw attacks trigger the overthrow the oppesssors. In the case above it didnt matter that much. But a full squad of pick abberants fighting a knight might mean 10 extra attacks ontop of the base. It creates and onion of attacks and extra attack generation.

I would assume its possible, because they are a second set of attacks not generated by the strategem.

It makes sense that any function of the weapon profile dictating conditional attacks ought to be followed.

Extra attacks obviously dont trigger extra attacks on them selves from OTO.

It looks like a good rule to Follow is the weapon profile.

this also make OTO significantly better with HIW and power picks.