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Are there any good imperial armor books to read? Just finished the vraks series and it seemed very...chaos is cool. Are there any of the books that are from a balanced perspective? or are they all going to be for the non-imperial side?

I'd say every FW book is worth it if you can get your hands on it but generally speaking, they are a bit bleaker/more realistic on how the IOM gets to the end of it's day.

They tend to win but the cost is great. I recommend the Amphelion Project since it's my personal favorite.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd say every FW book is worth it if you can get your hands on it but generally speaking, they are a bit bleaker/more realistic on how the IOM gets to the end of it's day.

They tend to win but the cost is great. I recommend the Amphelion Project since it's my personal favorite.

I will check that one out, being a nid player. So you would say they seem more realistic than the typical bolter porn from BL? I ask because when reading about the khorne berserkers they seemed like chain axe porn. Personally seemed like they should have had less impact.

Forgeworld books tend to amp up the distinction between marines and 'normal' soldiers - you see the exact same thing in vraks from the Imperial side with the Red Scorpions taking the breach in the curtain wall.

My favourite is Taros Campaign.

Basically everything by Warwick Kinrade is a good read for me (IA 3-8). However Kastorel-Novem being probably the worst from him while still being ok.

I have great respect for Alang Bligh for making Horus Heresy a game but i am not a great fan of how he writes. He started to write since Badab War and its just not the same to me as Warwick's style.

I dont know the authors of last Imperial Armours.

Badab War is (two) of my personal favorites. Some of Alan Blighs best writing.

I have all of them and would rate them as so:

Excellent - Taros and Anphelion project, Badab War
Good - Raid on Novem, Fall of Orpheus
Ok / Poor - Doom of Mymeara, Vraks

To answer your question however, most of the books are more pro Xenos than the usual bolter p8Rn GW do.
YMMV whether you like that or not but I enjoyed it.

I liked Doom of Mymeara - its not often everyone wins (by succeeding at their goals rather than annihilation) makes it a bit more interesting

Doom of Mymeara was horrible because it showed the Eldar acting like faceless horde cannon fodder, and charging in to get slaughtered. It didn't show anything about Eldar organization or methods of waging war. As for the supposed "twist" at the end, surely they could have accomplished the same objective without throwing away how many thousands of Eldar lives in headlong charges into enemy guns? Their behavior was completely at odds with how a faction that is loss averse and which goes to war to preserve a handful of Eldar lives is supposed to act.

The latter Imperial Armor books have been increasingly bad because they increasingly are just impressionistic accounts of bolter porn without any concrete details. The Taros campaign listed clear orders of battle and even some hypothesized organizational structures for the Tau. It was also notable that it was the only campaign in which the logistics actually mattered, and which ultimately decided the outcome.

IA 13 has a lot of good background into r&h in general but also explains daemonengines and certain landraider versions but more indepth.

Personal favourite is the decimator.
Which seems to work semi independantly as a Piraten merc daemonengine. Somehow.

I like decimators.

Iracundus wrote:
Doom of Mymeara was horrible because it showed the Eldar acting like faceless horde cannon fodder, and charging in to get slaughtered. It didn't show anything about Eldar organization or methods of waging war. As for the supposed "twist" at the end, surely they could have accomplished the same objective without throwing away how many thousands of Eldar lives in headlong charges into enemy guns? Their behavior was completely at odds with how a faction that is loss averse and which goes to war to preserve a handful of Eldar lives is supposed to act.

The latter Imperial Armor books have been increasingly bad because they increasingly are just impressionistic accounts of bolter porn without any concrete details. The Taros campaign listed clear orders of battle and even some hypothesized organizational structures for the Tau.

Funny that, because your first point (faceless horde cannon fodder) can be applied to Imperium in pretty much any IA book. While writing is okay, plot is often completely stupid and relying on Imperium behaving like morons the whole way (see especially Taros, where vastly superior Imperial force does pretty much every possible move to lose, Tau have one magical asspull after another from their behind to avoid losing, especially in space, and the one thing Imperium manages to do well, destroying Tau command structure somehow turns every single Tau on the planet into Chaos Terminator Lord grade combatant seeing they charge imperial lines with reckless abandon into melee range and somehow win instead of being completely slaughtered on the spot despite being really outnumbered and triumphing even in the face of Space Marine intervention).

This is on top of author making impression of someone having no idea how the universe works (again, from Taros book, you have such nice bits as marines needing to rescue IG tanks because their short ranged guns (gee, only 72 inch reach vs 48 inches of lascannons SM had, or 60 inches of Tau railguns) couldn't threaten Tau at range and their fragile (yup, only AV14) vehicles couldn't take as much beating as SM razorbacks and predators with their mighty AV of 11

Literally the only IA books I'd recommend are the two Badab War ones, mostly because it's Imperium vs Imperium so at least both sides are equally stupid and both have their successes and losses instead of xenos magically teleporting their whole army into the only position that Imperium didn't secure to constantly win. While yes, I agree Imperial Guard being highly competent in Mymeara was weird, at least it was capped on the level possible on tabletop, I'll take it over 10.000 points of Khornate Berserker Tau fighting 500 points of marines or IG from Taros book any day.

I don't know where you are getting some of those Taros campaign details because they are quite simply not what is written in the book.

The Taros space campaign was actually quite balanced. Though the Imperial warships were foolish enough to go chasing after the Tau battleship, they actually succeeded in taking out one of the Tau's brand new Custodian class battleships. Sure, it cost them the campaign in the end because they left their tankers unprotected. However this can be argued to reflect the glory driven nature of the Imperial Navy officers in command, especially when faced with the potential kill of a new class of enemy warship. In pure material exchange in terms of capital ships, the Imperium came out ahead. It's just that the water was more important.

Tau railguns are 72" so are not any inferior in range to the Imperial guard tank cannons, and they were on the more mobile Tau tanks. In-universe specs clocked the Tau Hammerhead at 70 kph which is far superior to the Imperial Guard's vehicles. Unlike the I go You Go alternating turns of a game, in the background the Tau could move shoot and scoot often before the Guard could respond. The Tau Pathfinders were already in hiding in the predictable line of the Guard's advance, and marked the enemy targets, which is why the Tau could strike first with Seeker missiles. When the Guard did respond with reinforcements, the Tau could stay back and not engage, using the superior mobility of their anti-grav vehicles to outpace the Guard's slower tracked vehicles.

After the Ethereal was killed, the Tau were able to mop up because the Guard were already falling back in disarray, abandoning their heavier equipment, because they were all dying of thirst. The Tau didn't charge into the Imperial lines into melee range. They engaged at range, with Manta support, and then closed in gradually to as close as 200m which is still not melee range. The Space Marines prevented the retreat from becoming a total slaughter but they were certainly not going to suddenly turn around the campaign single handedly because they are not invincible despite Imperial propaganda.

The Imperials lost because they were unimaginative and the Tau basically did hit and run and did not let the Imperium engage in a straight up slugging match (and the Imperium won the one slugging match that there was during the campaign albeit losing a Titan in the process), and then the Imperium had its critical supplies cut off. It was in fact the kind of fighting the Eldar should have been doing in Doom of Mymeara, instead of just charging into guns. The Imperial force was under strength and was the product of planning by committee, compounded by a Space Marine force that didn't coordinate much with the Guard. However I see nothing that breaks suspension of disbelief in that campaign. You seem to have been reading an entirely different book.

(This post was written with at hand reference to the first printing version of Imperial Armour Volume 3: The Taros Campaign, so these details have been checked and not reliant purely on personal memory)

Relevant references for the space battle: p. 83- 85
For the initial Guard advance and tank battles: p. 66
Guard retreat and evacuation p. 144-146

Doom of Mymeara was horrible because it showed the Eldar acting like faceless horde cannon fodder, and charging in to get slaughtered. It didn't show anything about Eldar organization or methods of waging war. As for the supposed "twist" at the end, surely they could have accomplished the same objective without throwing away how many thousands of Eldar lives in headlong charges into enemy guns? Their behavior was completely at odds with how a faction that is loss averse and which goes to war to preserve a handful of Eldar lives is supposed to act.

The latter Imperial Armor books have been increasingly bad because they increasingly are just impressionistic accounts of bolter porn without any concrete details. The Taros campaign listed clear orders of battle and even some hypothesized organizational structures for the Tau. It was also notable that it was the only campaign in which the logistics actually mattered, and which ultimately decided the outcome.

Yup that was pretty much my view too. Was frustrating to read as they could really have had the Eldar play a hit and run, cat and mouse, psychological-warfare kinda campaign. Especially since the Eldar werent fighting for territory or land or resources. It was effectively a rescue mission of sorts.
Instead.....they deploy a Phantom Titan

 Ratius wrote:

Doom of Mymeara was horrible because it showed the Eldar acting like faceless horde cannon fodder, and charging in to get slaughtered. It didn't show anything about Eldar organization or methods of waging war. As for the supposed "twist" at the end, surely they could have accomplished the same objective without throwing away how many thousands of Eldar lives in headlong charges into enemy guns? Their behavior was completely at odds with how a faction that is loss averse and which goes to war to preserve a handful of Eldar lives is supposed to act.

The latter Imperial Armor books have been increasingly bad because they increasingly are just impressionistic accounts of bolter porn without any concrete details. The Taros campaign listed clear orders of battle and even some hypothesized organizational structures for the Tau. It was also notable that it was the only campaign in which the logistics actually mattered, and which ultimately decided the outcome.

Yup that was pretty much my view too. Was frustrating to read as they could really have had the Eldar play a hit and run, cat and mouse, psychological-warfare kinda campaign. Especially since the Eldar werent fighting for territory or land or resources. It was effectively a rescue mission of sorts.
Instead.....they deploy a Phantom Titan

was the book written around the time FW put out the Phantom Titan?

#sales pitch!

 Ratius wrote:

Doom of Mymeara was horrible because it showed the Eldar acting like faceless horde cannon fodder, and charging in to get slaughtered. It didn't show anything about Eldar organization or methods of waging war. As for the supposed "twist" at the end, surely they could have accomplished the same objective without throwing away how many thousands of Eldar lives in headlong charges into enemy guns? Their behavior was completely at odds with how a faction that is loss averse and which goes to war to preserve a handful of Eldar lives is supposed to act.

The latter Imperial Armor books have been increasingly bad because they increasingly are just impressionistic accounts of bolter porn without any concrete details. The Taros campaign listed clear orders of battle and even some hypothesized organizational structures for the Tau. It was also notable that it was the only campaign in which the logistics actually mattered, and which ultimately decided the outcome.

Yup that was pretty much my view too. Was frustrating to read as they could really have had the Eldar play a hit and run, cat and mouse, psychological-warfare kinda campaign. Especially since the Eldar werent fighting for territory or land or resources. It was effectively a rescue mission of sorts.
Instead.....they deploy a Phantom Titan

Well FW had just produced their Phantom Titan so they were probably going to feature it as marketing. However they could have written it in better. Of all the Titans in the 40K universe, Eldar ones are the most suitable to be portrayed like the anime Evangelion, as giant alien constructs that move with a disturbingly lifelike fluidity. The story could have had the Imperial forces trying to hunt down the Phantom, like humans trying to hunt down and fight an Angel from Evangelion. The problem is GW seem to keep downgrading the Phantom with every rewriting, as if they could not bear any alien Titan having weaponry as good as, let alone better, than Imperial Titan weapons.

Personally, I liked the Fall of Orpheus very much, it's atmosphere is suitably erie and unsettling, the narrative details feel sensical and consistent with previous works.

The Orpheus sector gets gutted by the Necrons in 100 days. An Imperial campaign called the Orpheus Salvation campaign is launched but it fails since 7 years later, in 999.M41, the Orpheus sector is officially dissolved and the region re-classified again as wilderness space.

Problem I find is its putting the Necrons further up on a pedestal of invincibility as they are shown as both tough, fast, technologically advanced, and numerous (i.e. virtually no weaknesses). Abaddon fights for literally decades in the Gothic sector for the sake of acquiring Blackstone Fortresses, yet the Necrons essentially tear through an equivalent amount of worlds in under a year, with the remaining time really just mop up. If one Necron dynasty can do that, it really starts to raise issues for why earlier active Necron dynasties haven't torn down the Imperium already if a dynasty can take out 60 worlds in 100 days.

Iracundus wrote:
The Orpheus sector gets gutted by the Necrons in 100 days. An Imperial campaign called the Orpheus Salvation campaign is launched but it fails since 7 years later, in 999.M41, the Orpheus sector is officially dissolved and the region re-classified again as wilderness space.

Problem I find is its putting the Necrons further up on a pedestal of invincibility as they are shown as both tough, fast, technologically advanced, and numerous (i.e. virtually no weaknesses). Abaddon fights for literally decades in the Gothic sector for the sake of acquiring Blackstone Fortresses, yet the Necrons essentially tear through an equivalent amount of worlds in under a year, with the remaining time really just mop up. If one Necron dynasty can do that, it really starts to raise issues for why earlier active Necron dynasties haven't torn down the Imperium already if a dynasty can take out 60 worlds in 100 days.

In the Necron lore, the Dynasties aren't united and there is a lot of fierce, violent rivalry between them. They fight for very, Very petty reasons. Most of the Necron incursions haven't been wanting to target the imperium, but the actual planets themselves.

Necron view planets/systems of a dynasty as the Phaerons property of a dynasty. If an imperial world is a part of a Phaerons dynasty "land" they may be extremely lucky and be allowed to live there if they swear loyalty and give tithes to the owner. But the vast majotlrity the imperial population is exterminated like insects. And its not beyond another dynasty destroying another dynasties planet out of nothing more than petty jealousy and spite.

Thats why if the silent king ever returns and unites the dynasties again, then basically the entire galaxy will be void of life. Necron tech is much, much more advanced than even the IoM tech from the dark age of technology, and the Necrons had this 60 million years ago, before we were even single cells in an ooze puddle.

I enjoyed the fact they took the Crons up a power level.
All of the old fluff had them significantly more technologically advanced than basically anyone else and when they strike they tend to strike with overwhelming tactical ability and speed.
Only the dogedness of the IG kept them at bay for a while.

Also like the idea that the system is now classified as lost rather than some banner weilding all glory to the Emperor fightback (been there seen that).

 Ratius wrote:
I enjoyed the fact they took the Crons up a power level.
All of the old fluff had them significantly more technologically advanced than basically anyone else and when they strike they tend to strike with overwhelming tactical ability and speed.
Only the dogedness of the IG kept them at bay for a while.

Also like the idea that the system is now classified as lost rather than some banner weilding all glory to the Emperor fightback (been there seen that).

The IG didn't really hold them at bay for long at all. It was more than a system that was lost. It was a whole sector. What Abaddon fought decades for (and never did get), was gained by the Necrons in a little over 3 months. 60 star systems in 100 days.

While I don't have any objection per se to the Necrons winning, the utter steamrolling they did strains suspension of disbelief in so far as we are also expected to believe that somehow they are being held back from steamrolling over the rest of the galaxy as effortlessly as well. That and their hyping up to have no weaknesses of any real consequence. No faction in 40K should be made out to be invincible. That was my problem with the old Necrons as well. They were made out to be hyper advanced, super tough, and numerous. Basically having it all.

Yes but theres a huge (likely incalculable) difference between taking the Cadia sector and Orpheus.

The Imperium had Cadia reinforced to the nth degree and were in all likely hood waiting for Abby to attack (knew CSM abilities, tactics, wargear)

Orpheus was a degenerating system with little heavy defense or readiness versus somewhat of an unknown 9and technologically superior) foe.

I dont think you can compare the two imo.

 Ratius wrote:
Yes but theres a huge (likely incalculable) difference between taking the Cadia sector and Orpheus.

The Imperium had Cadia reinforced to the nth degree and were in all likely hood waiting for Abby to attack (knew CSM abilities, tactics, wargear)

Orpheus was a degenerating system with little heavy defense or readiness versus somewhat of an unknown 9and technologically superior) foe.

I dont think you can compare the two imo.

I wasn't comparing to Cadia at all. I was referring to the Gothic Sector, which seems to be a fairly typical sector aside from those Blackstone Fortresses. Abaddon fought decades over the sector in the Gothic War, and still didn't win in the end. There is a whole magnitude of difference in terms of the time spent vs. the Necrons sweeping through the entire Orpheus sector in 100 days, and in the process demolishing 90% of one of the largest Imperial fleets seen since the Heresy.