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Made in nz
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




New Zealand

Does anyone know the reasoning behind slapping 3-10 heavy stubbers on any new primaris vehicle? The bolter is the iconic marine weapon but never represented in the new models. Even from a crunch perspective storm bolters or a heavier weapon would be a better fit for marines rather than some peashooters.
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

It's a common Mechanicus weapon. It's found on Mecnanicus vehicles and Imperial Knights.

The stubbers on Astartes vehicle indicate closer links to the AdMech.

Functionally an Ironhail stubber is better than a storm bolter, also.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





I'm curious on your sorce for stubbers indicating closer ties to the admech?

that said the stubbers are all ironhail stubbers, so it's possiable Cawl couldn't manage to adapt that tech to bolter tech. so the stubbers are a comprimise.

I'd actually kinda like that, Primaris use ironhail stubbers because Cawl actually came up short

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Across the Rubicon

It is probably because while the bolter is the iconic weapon the space marine, space marines aren't the only ones that have bolters.

If GW wants to make heavy, storm, hurricane, etc. bolters better or worse for marine vehicles they have to check the rest of IoM inventory to see if the 'Stormhammer Strikelance' Forgeworld tank not sold since 200X tankplane doesn't them as well and would make that obscure model way better than it has any right to be. Fact is a lot of guard vehicles have bolter weapons and IG players would rightfully throw a fit if space marine heavy bolters were better than their exact same bolters.

IF GW makes a brand new kind of gun, well they can create whatever rules they want to go with it and not have to worry about everything else. The only fly in this hypothesis ointment is GW makes the model fires and rules second.

   
Made in nz
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




New Zealand

My point is that surely a modified bolt rifle in the same vein as the storm bolter would look better and be more thematic than a stubber which is seen as a fairly crude weapon to be wielded by space marines. Hell, keep the heavy 3 S4 Ap -1 but change the design and name.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





part of it is the long gun barrel, bolt guns tend to have small stubby barrels. and botl rifles have wider barrels then that

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

Funny enough, a crude and easy to repair/replace/maintain weapon is exactly why it's so good as a handy, secondary armament.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think someone at GW proper just has a huge bulging, interest, in stubbers of the heavy kind.

If you noticed stubbers are even on some plague marine stuff, namely the plague burst crawler with the rothail stubber I believe.

I guess chaos has less as they are more crazy and break the long barrels, they party too hard.

Edit, On second thought I think its called a slugger, a rothail slugger, but its obviously a stubber, just lazier and more bloated.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 03:12:10


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Toronto

It indicates a bad design that they look so similar, but the arm "stubbers" on the Invictus warsuit are actually autocannons. I wouldn't be surprised if the turret on the Impulsor was the same type of weapon, but with the +1/-1 anti-air rules.
All the new autocannons (helvarins, supressors) seem to have ditched the unifying design element of the beefy cylindrical muzzle break.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 01:24:29


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I hate that GW is throwing them on ever new marine tank. It's not and never has been a marine weapon and it makes the newer tanks and walkers look cheaper and lower tech than a marine tank should.

The new turret for the hover rhino looks awful. If Cawl can suddenly have the plot magic to make hover craft for everyone and their mother (further making the setting more and more generic) then he can figure out how to make a super duper storm bolter for his abominations of guns that is his new tanks.
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Alaska

I'll probably pick up one of the transports and I'll probably replace the heavy stubber with a bolt-looking weapon but use the heavy stubber rules. I doubt many people would care. (This is assuming there isn't an option for a storm bolter or something similar.)

YELL REAL LOUD AN' CARRY A BIG CHOPPA! 
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

I'm starting to think Cawl has a virus that's overwriting every weapon STC with that of a stubber...

(Someone said that Jes Goodwin said in a VoxCast Podcast that he wished they'd used stubbers more in the past, as they're meant to be a common weapon)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 08:40:18


 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





if Jes Goodwin wishes they'd used stubbers more that might just be the real reason. to enforce the commonness. I'm given the impression that the Primaris project is, as much as anything Jes Goodwin going "ya know.. in retrospect... wouldn't this be cooler?"

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'll probably pick up one of the transports and I'll probably replace the heavy stubber with a bolt-looking weapon but use the heavy stubber rules. I doubt many people would care. (This is assuming there isn't an option for a storm bolter or something similar.)


I'll probably pick up at least two (they're more of a Razorback than a Rhino) to replace the single Repulsor in my Calgar/Lt/Apothecary/Aggressor list. Give them both the 4++ drive up, disembark, and Dakka Dakka Dakka. It looks like they're already hinting this will be the Whirlwind kit as well. I'll have to see how it builds to see how many I'll get eventually. I didn't see anything that suggests it will be the Predator replacement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 09:18:10


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Presumably it is there to link to the mechnicus design of the Primaris Marines. The Mechanicus have a thing for stubbers.

It works on the Mechanicus vehciles with their retro archaic look.

It doesnt work and looks out of place on marine vehicles, it looks too low tech for them.
   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






I figure it's because stubbers have more range than than storm bolters for the most part
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





I will say, I find it really out of keeping with the current "lets bring the imperium into the 42M" trend they are striking. It's the same as exhaust ports and fossil fuel powered vehicles. WHY? YOU HAVE SUPER PLASMA POWER, hell, even the marines are toting around nuclear reactors on their backs. Why are they still burning fuels? (See: Baneblade and dreadnaught has gas tanks and exhaust ports)

Recently had the misfortune of downloading and playing Warhammer: Firewarrior. One of the fluffier moments in that game that I really liked was the training mission, where they put you into a room with a holo screen that has all the records of the different races.

The level of disdain that the Tau look upon the weapons of the imperium is obvious. I think the term is "Archaic bolt thrower technology...". It's funny. You have the capability to outfit every space marine in existence with plasma rifles or whatnot, but you still just use these stubbers, and bolt guns. It's pointless and immersion breaking.
   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will say, I find it really out of keeping with the current "lets bring the imperium into the 42M" trend they are striking. It's the same as exhaust ports and fossil fuel powered vehicles. WHY? YOU HAVE SUPER PLASMA POWER, hell, even the marines are toting around nuclear reactors on their backs. Why are they still burning fuels? (See: Baneblade and dreadnaught has gas tanks and exhaust ports)

Recently had the misfortune of downloading and playing Warhammer: Firewarrior. One of the fluffier moments in that game that I really liked was the training mission, where they put you into a room with a holo screen that has all the records of the different races.

The level of disdain that the Tau look upon the weapons of the imperium is obvious. I think the term is "Archaic bolt thrower technology...". It's funny. You have the capability to outfit every space marine in existence with plasma rifles or whatnot, but you still just use these stubbers, and bolt guns. It's pointless and immersion breaking.


I assume the cost to make a plasma gun is a tad higher than the cost to make a bolt gun.

If you got 5 guys to arm and can afford either 1 plasma gun or 5 boltguns you'd be better off with the bolt guns
   
Made in ch
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






To me, heavy stubbers scream Astra Militarium.

Primaris have an even more accentuated sci-fi look than regular marines, making the stubber even more out of place imho.
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





 fraser1191 wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will say, I find it really out of keeping with the current "lets bring the imperium into the 42M" trend they are striking. It's the same as exhaust ports and fossil fuel powered vehicles. WHY? YOU HAVE SUPER PLASMA POWER, hell, even the marines are toting around nuclear reactors on their backs. Why are they still burning fuels? (See: Baneblade and dreadnaught has gas tanks and exhaust ports)

Recently had the misfortune of downloading and playing Warhammer: Firewarrior. One of the fluffier moments in that game that I really liked was the training mission, where they put you into a room with a holo screen that has all the records of the different races.

The level of disdain that the Tau look upon the weapons of the imperium is obvious. I think the term is "Archaic bolt thrower technology...". It's funny. You have the capability to outfit every space marine in existence with plasma rifles or whatnot, but you still just use these stubbers, and bolt guns. It's pointless and immersion breaking.


I assume the cost to make a plasma gun is a tad higher than the cost to make a bolt gun.

If you got 5 guys to arm and can afford either 1 plasma gun or 5 boltguns you'd be better off with the bolt guns


You're talking about Astartes here, not Astra Militarum. If the fluff is to be believed, there are less than 20k Astartes currently on the books, is that right? Lets say it is. Crafting 20k Plasma guns is a walk in the part for the Mechanicus. Hell, it's so easy the outfitted entire units with them (Hellblasters). Also, did I remember correctly that outside of Planetary defense issues (ala Non-Astartes matters), there is no such thing as "cost" in the imperium? It's just bodies and bullets? No one really pays with money anymore? All worlds pay a "tax" to Terra, in bodies.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


You're talking about Astartes here, not Astra Militarum. If the fluff is to be believed, there are less than 20k Astartes currently on the books, is that right? Lets say it is.


Not even remotely correct. At minimum there's "a thousand chapters of a thousand marines". In reality there's many more chapters, most of which maintain far more than a thousand marines once non-line boys are accounted for (who still need to be fully kitted out). And that's before we add in the shenanigans that ensued once Cawl's Primaris FedEx van showed up.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Also, did I remember correctly that outside of Planetary defense issues (ala Non-Astartes matters), there is no such thing as "cost" in the imperium? It's just bodies and bullets? No one really pays with money anymore? All worlds pay a "tax" to Terra, in bodies.


Again, wildly inaccurate. There's no "imperial credit" as a standardized currency across the realm. There are however, an innumerable number of local currencies that are used by individual worlds, subsectors and mercantile empires.

As for the Tithe, it's based entirely on what the world can provide. Some worlds give food. Some give raw materials. Some give refined goods. And some give meat for the grinder.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 13:36:52


 
   
Made in us
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran





Mississippi

40K life is cheap, tech is not.

In RT and oldCrumnda, plasma was super rare, in the range of 1 plasma weapon to 100 other weapons. The weapons were so valuable that the “overheat” was the weapon safety venting mechanism, cooking the owner to save the weapon. There were hints that the tech to make plasma weapons was lost, and the ones in existance were relics of older days - days of the heresy or older.

Cawl’s Arrival changed that, now plasma is everywhere again in the Imperium.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

I don't mind the stubber fetish on the tanks. At least they made them AP-1 so they function more like Bolt rifles.

But I do mind that they are called "stubbers" yet have long barrels. What's up with that?

   
Made in ca
Stalwart Tribune





Its probably so bolter discipline can technically work on vehicles but not anymore since theyre not bolters. They have the same S4 Ap0 D1.

Admech 4500
Drukhari 4000
1750
Imperial knights 1200

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Stormonu wrote:
40K life is cheap, tech is not.

In RT and oldCrumnda, plasma was super rare, in the range of 1 plasma weapon to 100 other weapons. The weapons were so valuable that the “overheat” was the weapon safety venting mechanism, cooking the owner to save the weapon. There were hints that the tech to make plasma weapons was lost, and the ones in existance were relics of older days - days of the heresy or older.

Cawl’s Arrival changed that, now plasma is everywhere again in the Imperium.


No this is not the case.

Plasma is rare and presumably takes skill to produce, at lease on the scale of solely equipping large formation of men or space marines, but it has never been lost technology. There is even a Forgeworld in the fluff that specialises in producing plasma.

All Cawl did was produce a new subtype of very powerful plama guns
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

Plasma Tech was never lost, Anti Grav Tech was never lost.

The AdMech retreated into a conservative dogma of not sharing any technology. Some things became increasingly rare, but the Imperial Regent has changed things a bit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 15:32:49


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, did I remember correctly that outside of Planetary defense issues (ala Non-Astartes matters), there is no such thing as "cost" in the imperium? It's just bodies and bullets? No one really pays with money anymore? All worlds pay a "tax" to Terra, in bodies.


The Imperium is a command economy. There is currency, in the form of "thrones", which are mentioned moderately frequently, and credits [presumably the credits are local-issue currency for citizens who will never see the sky and thrones are interplanetary for rogue traders and planetary nobles], and people do get paid and buy things, but the greater Imperial apparatus does not deal with money; it commands that things be made and they are on pain of death.

The Departmento Munitorium and Administratum passes edicts specifying the quotas of things [tanks, men, food, tooling, industrial resources, etc.] that a planet must meet, and those planets meet those quotas. In exchange for meeting those quotas, the planetary lords keep their jobs and keep their lives, and receive the materials that their planet needs to survive that can't be produced indigenously.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/09 20:40:01


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, did I remember correctly that outside of Planetary defense issues (ala Non-Astartes matters), there is no such thing as "cost" in the imperium? It's just bodies and bullets? No one really pays with money anymore? All worlds pay a "tax" to Terra, in bodies.


The Imperium is a command economy. There is currency, in the form of "thrones", which are mentioned moderately frequently, and credits [presumably the credits are local-issue currency for citizens who will never see the sky and thrones are interplanetary for rogue traders and planetary nobles], and people do get paid and buy things, but the greater Imperial apparatus does not deal with money; it commands that things be made and they are on pain of death.

The Departmento Munitorium and Administratum passes edicts specifying the quotas of things [tanks, men, food, tooling, industrial resources, etc.] that a planet must meet, and those planets meet those quotas. In exchange for meeting those quotas, the planetary lords keep their jobs and keep their lives, and receive the materials that their planet needs to survive that can't be produced indigenously.


Rocks are not free, citizen.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




San Jose, CA

McGibs wrote:It indicates a bad design that they look so similar, but the arm "stubbers" on the Invictus warsuit are actually autocannons. I wouldn't be surprised if the turret on the Impulsor was the same type of weapon, but with the +1/-1 anti-air rules.
All the new autocannons (helvarins, supressors) seem to have ditched the unifying design element of the beefy cylindrical muzzle break.


I think GW wants stubbers to be the traditional chemical explosion projectile weapon class. whereas bolters are rocket propelled smart mass-reactive boomboom which are significantly more expensive & are limited in rate of fire. With more chord afoot in the galaxy (mass cultists, poxwalkers, etc), Genestealer cults/Nids & orks are hordes and you need a ton of high ROF shootyshoots. The larger ones (autocannon-esque) are just like autocannons at this point.

at least that's what's reasonable based on their actions as of late.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nothing about that abomination of mixed messages and design inconsistencies is reasonable.

Who ever designed that thing did a nice job sculpting wise, they just need to be told not to drink 8 redbull and watch the matrix on loop while designing 40k miniatures as it's got dumb fluff, dumb design and it make the redemeptor dread look dumb by association.

Stealth dreadnaught would have been stretching the fluff but a light weight dreadnaught would have been suitable.

But this is a steath mech with a flame thrower and machine guns, both extremely stealthy weapons.
It then gets a heavy bolter pistol so it can shoot people in CC by wielding a weapon in it's CCW that it's simultaneously using to beat people with.
Clearly the adult supervision lacking that day.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 21:22:10


 
   
 
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