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I've just been watching the GMG reviews, and looking at the GW pricing of the new codex, supplements and cards...

So firstly, as an 'old school' SM player I'm very happy to see that all of the SM units are still in the Codex (how many one here were saying the new codex would be Primaris only?).

Right, now my army is Ultramarines, although apart from the Chapter Tactic and captain's Sanctic Halo it's all vanilla SM units and loadouts. Is it worth getting the Ultramarines supplement and cards as well as the core codex and cards? £62.50 RRP (£50 from Element) is an awful lot to replace a codex I already have. £35 RRP (£28 from Element) is a little easier to stomach, and the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is in the core codex anyway. Are the any of standard relics worth taking instead of the Sanctic Halo?

Finally, what do you guys do with your old codexes and cards? Mine are pristine and only a year old. No use to me once I buy the new codex and I'm assuming no use to anyone else as well?

Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place. The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Well, I think you'll feel more comfortable if you buy the new stuff, the codex and the supplement.

I’ve got a shelf full of old codexes going all the way back. Sometimes I drag them down for historical references, but mostly they collect dust. Maintaining current rules is irritating, but one of the ongoing costs of the hobby. Minis last forever, and are only occasionally invalidated, but books need to be replaced every d6 years.

I’m a little behind on the rumor train, but suspect I’ll be picking up the Ultra’s supplement. If nothing else that’s where all the named characters are going to be, and I suspect there should be some fun stuff there. I’m never fond of slapping down the cash for rules, and the $40 + $30 for the codex + supplement cuts into my mini’s budget. With the more aggressive rules turnover, I’m not picking up any data cards or the like though. There is a limit on how much I’ll spend on stuff that goes obsolete so quick these days.

Datacards are an additional annoyance when the rules change, but playing Maelstrom of War missions without them is a faff.

Well, these new codexes are a little under the usual shelf life, correct? GW usually replaces editions around 3-5 years. This is JUST under 3 years. Hopefully this doesn't become the trend, and GW just realized how broken their toys were and "hotfixed" the entire codex.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, these new codexes are a little under the usual shelf life, correct? GW usually replaces editions around 3-5 years. This is JUST under 3 years. Hopefully this doesn't become the trend, and GW just realized how broken their toys were and "hotfixed" the entire codex.

Indeed, under the usual shelf-life.
This seems to be a new way for GW to ''gather'' money.
In the 7th edition, we had several supplemental books.
Now they seem to release codices in smaller cycles (at least SM and CSM).
I guess they will release several supplement codices with popular chapter.
The beginning has already been made with UM and WS.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Datacards are an additional annoyance when the rules change, but playing Maelstrom of War missions without them is a faff.

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

I'm not even bothering with the generics, just waiting for the Raven Guard.

This is not like codexes of yore where it was more often than not just updating rules to the new edition.

This is a sizable model release as well as interesting rules design updates.

 Kanluwen wrote:

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

Really?

They're both bundled here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Ultramarines-Essentials-Collection-EN-2019

 Brother Castor wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

Really?

They're both bundled here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Ultramarines-Essentials-Collection-EN-2019

Yeah, it looks like there was some stuff I didn't think about since it doesn't affect the way I usually run stuff.

The faction cards contain:
-36 Tactical Objectives(same as the base book)
-20 Stratagems(less than the main book)
-7 Psyker Powers from the Indomitus Discipline

All of that stuff is strictly Ultramarines.

The main book cards contain:
-36 Tactical Objectives
-38 Stratagems
-3 Combat Doctrines
-13 Psychic Powers(the Librarius and Obscuration Disciplines)
-7 Litanies(the new Chaplain bits)

I don't run Chaplains and I have no qualms with just consulting the table for Psyker Powers, the Doctrines, or Stratagems, so I stand corrected--the main book stuff might be helpful.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place.

Riiight.
You see "They made an error".
I see: "Their plan is proceeding right on track."

 Brother Castor wrote:
The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Yup. 8e is here to stay. Right up until 9e arrives. Probably around 2021/22
Make no mistake, once GW has thoroughly milked 8e they'll switch editions on you. And start the whole cycle over.

ok, here's how I see it, first of all from another thread I know you don't run any UM characters. So that's not nesscary, the UMs grant some addtional relics and the like, as well as new psykic powers, from a power gamer POV? it's porably worth it. I'm going to assume however you're not just some meta chaser looking for "MOAR POWERFUL" options. and I think it'll depend on the fluff. the fluff for each book seems to give a general rundown on the chapter, it's history and how it's orginized, it also details each chapter (wanna know whose the captain of the Ultramarines 9th company? here's your chance!) obviously if you're intreasted in the fluff behind the ultramarines this is proably a more intreasting book then not. if it's poorly written fluff and/or you don't care, the book loses value.

over all, I'd suggest if you're on the fence waiting until the book is released and you can preview it in hand

ccs wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place.

Riiight.
You see "They made an error".
I see: "Their plan is proceeding right on track."

Whilst I agree this nets them more money because we all have to re-buy our codex, I don't think this was the original plan. It's not consistent with how the Chaos SM codex was updated, and it invalidates all of the Index Astartes rules in WD, including the current month's that will be on sale (briefly) at the same time as this new codex. No, this seems like a change of direction to fix the rules and allow expansions going forward (i.e. selling us new rules for new units without making us resent paying for rules we've already bought).

I dont think i will buy a new codex book in the future. 12 months after release its outdated. From now on it will be the epub version. That isnt using up space, and doesnt collect dust. GW really needs to think about updating these epubs for a small fee when rules change or points get changed, lets say 5€, and i get to download the updated version.

GMG review = garbage

 Brother Castor wrote:

Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place. The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Not really. Nothing so far that GW hasn't done before. Multiple versions of codex inside same edition is already done before. Marines are particularly suspectible for that due to them being the poster boys so when GW changes design pattern marines are first in line.

Nothing GW has done past years indicates they have stopped rulebook and codex rerelease pattern. If anything it keeps getting faster. Which actually makes sense seeing new book released is print me some money button...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I agree this nets them more money because we all have to re-buy our codex, I don't think this was the original plan. It's not consistent with how the Chaos SM codex was updated, and it invalidates all of the Index Astartes rules in WD, including the current month's that will be on sale (briefly) at the same time as this new codex. No, this seems like a change of direction to fix the rules and allow expansions going forward (i.e. selling us new rules for new units without making us resent paying for rules we've already bought).

GW invalidating fast rules they just sold is also nothing new for GW The same old pattern they have done for like 20+ years keeps going on.

 Brother Castor wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

Really?

They're both bundled here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Ultramarines-Essentials-Collection-EN-2019

It's rather annoying they way they've set it up, and it does look to be delibrate. The SM pack should have been for those doing successor chapters or for the DA, BA & SW folks to update their card set. The UM & WS sets *should* have been able to stand on their own.