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I've just been watching the GMG reviews, and looking at the GW pricing of the new codex, supplements and cards...

So firstly, as an 'old school' SM player I'm very happy to see that all of the SM units are still in the Codex (how many one here were saying the new codex would be Primaris only?).

Right, now my army is Ultramarines, although apart from the Chapter Tactic and captain's Sanctic Halo it's all vanilla SM units and loadouts. Is it worth getting the Ultramarines supplement and cards as well as the core codex and cards? £62.50 RRP (£50 from Element) is an awful lot to replace a codex I already have. £35 RRP (£28 from Element) is a little easier to stomach, and the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is in the core codex anyway. Are the any of standard relics worth taking instead of the Sanctic Halo?

Finally, what do you guys do with your old codexes and cards? Mine are pristine and only a year old. No use to me once I buy the new codex and I'm assuming no use to anyone else as well?

Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place. The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Well, I think you'll feel more comfortable if you buy the new stuff, the codex and the supplement.

I’ve got a shelf full of old codexes going all the way back. Sometimes I drag them down for historical references, but mostly they collect dust. Maintaining current rules is irritating, but one of the ongoing costs of the hobby. Minis last forever, and are only occasionally invalidated, but books need to be replaced every d6 years.

I’m a little behind on the rumor train, but suspect I’ll be picking up the Ultra’s supplement. If nothing else that’s where all the named characters are going to be, and I suspect there should be some fun stuff there. I’m never fond of slapping down the cash for rules, and the $40 + $30 for the codex + supplement cuts into my mini’s budget. With the more aggressive rules turnover, I’m not picking up any data cards or the like though. There is a limit on how much I’ll spend on stuff that goes obsolete so quick these days.

Datacards are an additional annoyance when the rules change, but playing Maelstrom of War missions without them is a faff.

Well, these new codexes are a little under the usual shelf life, correct? GW usually replaces editions around 3-5 years. This is JUST under 3 years. Hopefully this doesn't become the trend, and GW just realized how broken their toys were and "hotfixed" the entire codex.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, these new codexes are a little under the usual shelf life, correct? GW usually replaces editions around 3-5 years. This is JUST under 3 years. Hopefully this doesn't become the trend, and GW just realized how broken their toys were and "hotfixed" the entire codex.

Indeed, under the usual shelf-life.
This seems to be a new way for GW to ''gather'' money.
In the 7th edition, we had several supplemental books.
Now they seem to release codices in smaller cycles (at least SM and CSM).
I guess they will release several supplement codices with popular chapter.
The beginning has already been made with UM and WS.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Datacards are an additional annoyance when the rules change, but playing Maelstrom of War missions without them is a faff.

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

I'm not even bothering with the generics, just waiting for the Raven Guard.

This is not like codexes of yore where it was more often than not just updating rules to the new edition.

This is a sizable model release as well as interesting rules design updates.

 Kanluwen wrote:

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

Really?

They're both bundled here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Ultramarines-Essentials-Collection-EN-2019

 Brother Castor wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

Really?

They're both bundled here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Ultramarines-Essentials-Collection-EN-2019

Yeah, it looks like there was some stuff I didn't think about since it doesn't affect the way I usually run stuff.

The faction cards contain:
-36 Tactical Objectives(same as the base book)
-20 Stratagems(less than the main book)
-7 Psyker Powers from the Indomitus Discipline

All of that stuff is strictly Ultramarines.

The main book cards contain:
-36 Tactical Objectives
-38 Stratagems
-3 Combat Doctrines
-13 Psychic Powers(the Librarius and Obscuration Disciplines)
-7 Litanies(the new Chaplain bits)

I don't run Chaplains and I have no qualms with just consulting the table for Psyker Powers, the Doctrines, or Stratagems, so I stand corrected--the main book stuff might be helpful.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place.

Riiight.
You see "They made an error".
I see: "Their plan is proceeding right on track."

 Brother Castor wrote:
The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Yup. 8e is here to stay. Right up until 9e arrives. Probably around 2021/22
Make no mistake, once GW has thoroughly milked 8e they'll switch editions on you. And start the whole cycle over.

ok, here's how I see it, first of all from another thread I know you don't run any UM characters. So that's not nesscary, the UMs grant some addtional relics and the like, as well as new psykic powers, from a power gamer POV? it's porably worth it. I'm going to assume however you're not just some meta chaser looking for "MOAR POWERFUL" options. and I think it'll depend on the fluff. the fluff for each book seems to give a general rundown on the chapter, it's history and how it's orginized, it also details each chapter (wanna know whose the captain of the Ultramarines 9th company? here's your chance!) obviously if you're intreasted in the fluff behind the ultramarines this is proably a more intreasting book then not. if it's poorly written fluff and/or you don't care, the book loses value.

over all, I'd suggest if you're on the fence waiting until the book is released and you can preview it in hand

ccs wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place.

Riiight.
You see "They made an error".
I see: "Their plan is proceeding right on track."

Whilst I agree this nets them more money because we all have to re-buy our codex, I don't think this was the original plan. It's not consistent with how the Chaos SM codex was updated, and it invalidates all of the Index Astartes rules in WD, including the current month's that will be on sale (briefly) at the same time as this new codex. No, this seems like a change of direction to fix the rules and allow expansions going forward (i.e. selling us new rules for new units without making us resent paying for rules we've already bought).

I dont think i will buy a new codex book in the future. 12 months after release its outdated. From now on it will be the epub version. That isnt using up space, and doesnt collect dust. GW really needs to think about updating these epubs for a small fee when rules change or points get changed, lets say 5€, and i get to download the updated version.

GMG review = garbage

 Brother Castor wrote:

Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place. The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Not really. Nothing so far that GW hasn't done before. Multiple versions of codex inside same edition is already done before. Marines are particularly suspectible for that due to them being the poster boys so when GW changes design pattern marines are first in line.

Nothing GW has done past years indicates they have stopped rulebook and codex rerelease pattern. If anything it keeps getting faster. Which actually makes sense seeing new book released is print me some money button...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I agree this nets them more money because we all have to re-buy our codex, I don't think this was the original plan. It's not consistent with how the Chaos SM codex was updated, and it invalidates all of the Index Astartes rules in WD, including the current month's that will be on sale (briefly) at the same time as this new codex. No, this seems like a change of direction to fix the rules and allow expansions going forward (i.e. selling us new rules for new units without making us resent paying for rules we've already bought).

GW invalidating fast rules they just sold is also nothing new for GW The same old pattern they have done for like 20+ years keeps going on.

 Brother Castor wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You don't need both sets of cards if you're wanting to play Ultramarines.

Really?

They're both bundled here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Ultramarines-Essentials-Collection-EN-2019

It's rather annoying they way they've set it up, and it does look to be delibrate. The SM pack should have been for those doing successor chapters or for the DA, BA & SW folks to update their card set. The UM & WS sets *should* have been able to stand on their own.

Well I bought the new codex and managed to sell my old codex and datacards on eBay. Admittedly for only 15% of their original price, but still, it's better they've gone to someone who wants them than in the recycling

 Brother Castor wrote:
. selling us new rules for new units without making us resent paying for rules we've already bought.

I would realy like it, if they managed to achive that. Would be very nice of them.

And in a really nice gesture, friends from my local gaming group just bought me a copy of the Ultramarines supplement for my birthday

 Brother Castor wrote:
And in a really nice gesture, friends from my local gaming group just bought me a copy of the Ultramarines supplement for my birthday

awesome! it's a great supplement

ccs wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place.

Riiight.
You see "They made an error".
I see: "Their plan is proceeding right on track."

 Brother Castor wrote:
The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Yup. 8e is here to stay. Right up until 9e arrives. Probably around 2021/22
Make no mistake, once GW has thoroughly milked 8e they'll switch editions on you. And start the whole cycle over.

Why tho? The profit margin on the rulebooks themselves likely aren't great (especially the core books) and they're pirated constantly.

Also, creating an entire new edition is a metric F***ton of man hours compared to doing what AoS did and just making some slight mechanical tweeks and then coming out with new codexes and campaign books.

If they stayed in 8th...ish, they could keep selling new rulebooks but wouldn't have to bust arse for 6 months getting a whole new edition done.

ERJAK wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Whilst I like the improved rules I can't help feeling that this is an admission by GW that they got the SM rules wrong in the first place.

Riiight.
You see "They made an error".
I see: "Their plan is proceeding right on track."

 Brother Castor wrote:
The Chaos Marines codex 2.0 at least didn't require gamers with the original edition to re-buy their rules. Perhaps this is proof that 8th edition is here for good, and that 8th edition codexes will start to be re-released instead of the core rules...

Yup. 8e is here to stay. Right up until 9e arrives. Probably around 2021/22
Make no mistake, once GW has thoroughly milked 8e they'll switch editions on you. And start the whole cycle over.

Why tho? The profit margin on the rulebooks themselves likely aren't great (especially the core books) and they're pirated constantly.

You'd have to discuss the fine details with them. Me? I'm just telling you what the pattern is based on almost 30 years of experience. I see nothing that'd indicate this pattern won't continue.
As for the pirating? Other than raising the prices, I don't think they're worried about it. Proof: They keep printing books.

ERJAK wrote:
Also, creating an entire new edition is a metric F***ton of man hours compared to doing what AoS did and just making some slight mechanical tweeks and then coming out with new codexes and campaign books.

Basically because that's what the designers & developers get paid to do.
When the pile of FAQs & Errata get too unwieldly.
When they come up with a significant rules change.
PR & hype.
And just because an edition officially changes doesn't mean that the whole wheel gets re-invented each time. Perfect current example; AoS as you pointed out. But you're still buying/pirating whatever the new books are....

I despise codexes. GW uses them as nothing more than an unnecessary cash cow - a "tax" on players. To make matters worse, the release of an FAQ 2 weeks late makes the book incorrect - and this is before even mentioning the supplements or the campaign books etc.

Sumilidon wrote:
I despise codexes. GW uses them as nothing more than an unnecessary cash cow - a "tax" on players. To make matters worse, the release of an FAQ 2 weeks late makes the book incorrect - and this is before even mentioning the supplements or the campaign books etc.

Yeah I also hate paying for Minis, GW should give me those for free, I mean plastics cheap, why not just charge us 100 bucks and give us a full 2000 point army with the rules and a pony!?

BrianDavion wrote:

Sumilidon wrote:
I despise codexes. GW uses them as nothing more than an unnecessary cash cow - a "tax" on players. To make matters worse, the release of an FAQ 2 weeks late makes the book incorrect - and this is before even mentioning the supplements or the campaign books etc.

Yeah I also hate paying for Minis, GW should give me those for free, I mean plastics cheap, why not just charge us 100 bucks and give us a full 2000 point army with the rules and a pony!?

The difference is that for all GW's faults, the Miniatures are the best in the business. The aesthetic might not be to everyone's taste but the quality of the miniatures is second to none.

Their books, on the other hand, are literally not worth the paper they are printed on.

I don't know, I have seen some really good Russian, Polish and China models of w40k models, and they have more detail and are more crisp then what GW achives with their stuff. Now I don't play for decades, but in athe time I did, I have never heard someone say 3ed party rasin models, came in looking bad, bendy or with holes. While GW stuff I have seen with pen sized holes in them and air bubbles 0,75cm in diameter.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Sumilidon wrote:
I despise codexes. GW uses them as nothing more than an unnecessary cash cow - a "tax" on players. To make matters worse, the release of an FAQ 2 weeks late makes the book incorrect - and this is before even mentioning the supplements or the campaign books etc.

Yeah I also hate paying for Minis, GW should give me those for free, I mean plastics cheap, why not just charge us 100 bucks and give us a full 2000 point army with the rules and a pony!?

The difference is that for all GW's faults, the Miniatures are the best in the business. The aesthetic might not be to everyone's taste but the quality of the miniatures is second to none.

Their books, on the other hand, are literally not worth the paper they are printed on.

I would argue that GW's strong point is that the aesthetic is often diverse enough to appeal many tastes, but the style consistent enough to make it feel like a whole ensemble.
I agree on the rest.

Karol wrote:
I don't know, I have seen some really good Russian, Polish and China models of w40k models, and they have more detail and are more crisp then what GW achives with their stuff. Now I don't play for decades, but in athe time I did, I have never heard someone say 3ed party rasin models, came in looking bad, bendy or with holes. While GW stuff I have seen with pen sized holes in them and air bubbles 0,75cm in diameter.

we're not talking finecast though we're talking plastic. and GW's plastic models are pretty good, also BCB is refering to design insomuch as anything else. and all those russian, polish and chinese models are, eaither recasts or "stuff that just apes actual GW product. which means they don't need to be creative and come up with their own stuff

whenever I see the first solid rumour of a new book coming out for my faction, I eBay my previous one at the going rate. I've very rarely sold anything and regretted it. usually get about 50% of the original purchase price back.