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2019/08/16 06:57:57
Subject: [2000] - Drukhari - Is this list viable for ITC?
I guess the title says it all. So I was up last night getting my son back to sleep and, as you do, decided to mess about with army lists. I have two 2k ITC tournaments at the start of September which both need lists submitted around the same time so I can’t really use one as a practice run. I do have a more standard list if this is a steaming pile of...
The list harks back to my old 5th/6th edition blasterborn alpha strikes but how does it translate to an 8th edition meta?
As I see a lot of questions regarding meta, there is a lot of imperial, chaos and eldar soup. Triple knights definitely gaining traction so hopefully the blasters help there. I feel the list is good for denying max secondaries. (butchers is the only Killy one I can think of maxing, hmmm maybe headhunter as well)
Do I have enough to achieve VPs myself?
Cheers!
Jon
2019/08/17 01:40:57
Subject: [2000] - Drukhari - Is this list viable for ITC?
For your archons, I think a huksblade is better bang for your buck. The +1S doesn't quite beat a venom blade's poison for wounding, but the -2AP and D3 damage does. As enemy psykers show up, pitch in for the Helm of Spite for one of these guys. The archon with the Writ of the Living Muse ... maybe he shouldn't have a blsater, as you'' want to keep the ravagers at long range ... otherwise ...
Your 7 blasters are not enough anti-tank. I run 3 venoms with Trueborn, yielding 4 blasters in each unit, for 12 blasters. *And* I run 2 to 3 scourge units with haywire blasters, 8 to 12 of those guns. And sometimes, *that's* not enough anti-T (you said 3 Imp Knight armies are in your meta? Yikes!), given how swingy D6 damage can be. The ravagers' DisCans, even with reroll 1s to hit and wound, struggle with T6 targets (yes, I run 3 DisCan ravagers). The change I would make would be with the many shredder units in the second detachment, given plenty of anti-I in all of your venoms. I would work in Trueborn (index) and focus the S8 guns in dedicated anti-T units. Also, find some scourges. A couple less kabalites here or there, and you can have index Trueborn putting an average of 7 wounds on tanks (with reasonable dice, anyway).
Scourges are very tough to screen from vehicles, even if they Deep Strike. If your local terrain is really good, then you won't need to reserve the scourges and they can lay down mortal wound mayhem turn 1. Their long hop of wings and haywires' good medium range, you ought to be able to hit tanks in 4 outta the 6 deployment patterns. Hammer and Anvil is not your friend.
I don't know as Yvraine has a place here. Didn't her Soul Burst mechanisms go to h2h? I don't have her post-May rules, but she seems to have dropped out of the GT meta ... well, the last two GTs I went to.
Butcher's Bill is almost always my opponent's easy 4 secondary points. With no raiders, your opponent can only get 3 points for Big Game or Marked for Death (I can't imagine Yvraine being power level 7), so that's good. Recon will be easy for your list, and using Screaming Jets, Behind Enemy Lines, too.
Make sure to park venoms on the 2nd floor (or higher) of ruins as often as possible (ravagers, too), since their weakness is being assaulted. If the venom dies, your passengers get to disembark in cover. Given 11 venoms, I would think that 2 to 3 will be assaulted per turn, just so many being on the table. If the venom lives after being assaulted, be sure to disembark the kabs/trueborn before flying out of combat, otherwise, the passengers can't shoot, counting as having 'Fallen Back".
As an after thought, you'll need to distinguish the Flayed Skull venoms from the Black Heart, as they won't benefit from Inured to Suffering (FNP).
I see your games going well in the first two turns in scoring objectives and secondaries. Once an opponent's army starts to reach all board edges, that's when you'll lose or win, pending on what he has to assault the venoms (Blood Angels Smash Company might be particularly tough). If you're still fielding 5 venoms at the end of turn 4, I think your games will come out in your favor.
But you really need a lot more S8 & haywire.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/17 05:55:03
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Thanks for the feedback, in terms of the archons and yvraine, they’d go in the 12th venom, with yvraine possibly on foot so that I can use her psychic phase. WotLM archon should have a splinter pistol so he’s cheap and just babysits the ravagers.
Yvraine is only in there because of the rule of 3, if I could I’d have 4 archons.
In terms of the blasters, I’d say 40-50% of the meta will have 1-3 knights in some form of soup, 30% will be hordes, and the rest of the field will be a mix. So whilst I need to be able to deal with the knights I also need to deal with the hordes hence shredders. In terms of triple crusader I’m not sure there is any way to go toe to toe with that, in our codex without compromising how we deal with other threats, so I’d be picking off supporting units for kill 1 and playing the objective game. If I can bracket a knight every turn to 2 turns would that be enough?
I’m also thinking we will have to account for marine drop pods now as well.
Terrain will be a mixed bag, one tournament will have a consistent layout to even the playing field but the other will have different terrain on different tables.
I do have a more standard list with 3x ravagers, 2x RW, mandrakes, and kabalites in venoms but I don’t know that that list would deal with knights any better.
2019/08/17 10:37:52
Subject: [2000] - Drukhari - Is this list viable for ITC?
Well, I'd think about an outrider detachment with Harlie Skyweavers w/ haywire cannons led by a Shadowseer.
Otherwise, very good advice from Brother as always: Trueborn and Scourges can be force multipliers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/17 10:42:06
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Jdredsox wrote: Yvraine is only in there because of the rule of 3, if I could I’d have 4 archons.
Clever!
Jdredsox wrote: In terms of the blasters, I’d say 40-50% of the meta will have 1-3 knights in some form of soup, 30% will be hordes, and the rest of the field will be a mix. So whilst I need to be able to deal with the knights I also need to deal with the hordes hence shredders. In terms of triple crusader I’m not sure there is any way to go toe to toe with that, in our codex without compromising how we deal with other threats, so I’d be picking off supporting units for kill 1 and playing the objective game. If I can bracket a knight every turn to 2 turns would that be enough?
"Bracket" a knight? What do you mean? Kill one? Pin one? Oh, maybe bring one down a performance grade?
Anyway, no, I don't think so.
I think your 12 (!?, I counted 11) venoms have all the anti-horde you need, plus, they're filled with 4 splinter rifles each. At 12" you have 11x4x2 shots from kabs, and then 10 dice x 12 from venoms. 88 +120 dice. Out of 208 dice (we'll skip rerolls) ~138 hit, ~69 wound. That's 46 dead guardsmen, most daemon footers, etc on their 5+. 23 dead marines or 3+ dorks. That's nearly 3 daemon princes. Anything with a 2+, you'll hit with the ravagers (like filthy Centurions that are now 4 wounds! ).
Even at 18", you have 11x4x1 dice, plus, 8x12 venom shots. 18" to 24" the venoms still roll 5 dice each and 4 from the kabs. The shreddars are not needed. Your anti-I concerns are covered.
7 blasters (we'll keep the one you're thinking of taking away from WotLM Ravager Babysitter): 5 shots at BS3 + 2 at archon BS2 yields 6 hits (rounding up). Hunting Knights means 3 wounds at S8 vs. T8. Of those three, 2 sting, because you might Vect his 4++ strategem. On average that's 7 wounds, which is only halfway to degrading a Castellan (28 wounds total). With great dice for you and bad dice for him, you could bag a Knight, but that's nearly all of them wounding, none saved, and the damage being roll with 5s and 6s to generate the 24 to 28 points to bring one down in one salvo. Pretty thin.
Though venoms are super mobile, this MathHammer assumes you haven't sent the blaster bearing kabs to different corners of the table, concentrating them where the Knight will be (easily done, though).
Jdredsox wrote: In terms of the blasters, I’d say 40-50% of the meta will have 1-3 knights in some form of soup, 30% will be hordes, and the rest of the field will be a mix. So whilst I need to be able to deal with the knights I also need to deal with the hordes hence shredders. In terms of triple crusader I’m not sure there is any way to go toe to toe with that, in our codex ...
Yes, the blaster Trueborn and the Scourges' haywires. One could chose Dark Lances for scourges or ravagers or even kabalites. Druhkari do have anti-Knight capability. If I were going to tailor the list to beat 2+ knights, it's easily done, at the sacrifice of being TAC (and needing to go first).
All that said, harlies have super mobile haywire guns, if you're going to spend money, otherwise, I have found that scourges, at $30 for 5 of them, one of GW's better box deals, as the boxes come with lotsa guns bits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/17 16:20:10
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Thanks for going into such detail on this. Definitely a lot more I need to consider. Would the following lost be moving more in the right direction? Or would I be better switching to a more standard list?
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
+ Fast Attack +
Scourges [5 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine
Scourges [5 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine
10 blasters and the 8 haywire blasters does you much better.
I would have as many venoms in the Black Heart detachment for Innured to Suffering instead of the extra movement Flayed Skull gets you. I rarely have problems getting venoms where I want them to go. And the FS's Cover Save denial is meh, IMHO. Plus, the kabs will get the bump Black Heart's gets your Power from Pain. Auto-pass morale turn 3 which doesn't seem like much, but often 4 kabs get dusted and you've a 5+ Morale check that could lose the last guy ... but not turn 3 on.
Time to empty your wallet!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/18 00:31:57
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Well, in the ''Tactical'' Forum you'll see two recent threads showing the Druhkari lists used in the ETC 2019 event.
Some of these lists might give you some inspiration.
Frankly, Trueborn and Scourges are hardly found but lists with lots of flyers.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
).