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Just wanted to confirm, you cannot use the strategems that say to choose an Adeptus Astartes on a blood angel or deathwatch yeah? Or does it take a codex detachment to unlock and you can use it on anyone with the right keyword?

p174 of the Codex defines who can use the abilities - roughly translated (I'm using a German codex) it's limited to the chapters from the vanilla codex. Other chapters are not allowed to use these rules and abilities.

Pg 8 BRB FAQ

 Xenomancers wrote:
Pg 8 BRB FAQ

This. The example given in that FAQ is Death Guard being buffed by a CSM strat despite the fact that the same wording is in CSM with reference to Death Guard. Strats can be applied based on keyword only, and page 174 applies to access when it states "make use of".

dode74 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Pg 8 BRB FAQ

This. The example given in that FAQ is Death Guard being buffed by a CSM strat despite the fact that the same wording is in CSM with reference to Death Guard. Strats can be applied based on keyword only, and page 174 applies to access when it states "make use of".

Unless they are from Codex: Chaos Daemons or Codex: Tyranids, because GW logic.

So from the wording I can see two interpretations. One is that only space marines can be affected by it or two, only a space marine detachment can unlock. I would probably assume it’s the former but secretly hope it’s the latter.

GameDadZ wrote:
So from the wording I can see two interpretations. One is that only space marines can be affected by it or two, only a space marine detachment can unlock. I would probably assume it’s the former but secretly hope it’s the latter.

The first "interpretation" is flat out wrong. Period.

How is the first one wrong? In the codex there is a specific page that stares space marines exclude DW, BA, DA, SW. They do not count as space marines in that codex.

The strategems in the book are called space marine strategems, which would indicate that the strategems can either only be used on codex marines or can only be activated if you have codex marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How is the first one wrong? In the codex there is a specific page that stares space marines exclude DW, BA, DA, SW. They do not count as space marines in that codex.

The strategems in the book are called space marine strategems, which would indicate that the strategems can either only be used on codex marines or can only be activated if you have codex marines.

GameDadZ wrote:
How is the first one wrong? In the codex there is a specific page that stares space marines exclude DW, BA, DA, SW. They do not count as space marines in that codex.

The strategems in the book are called space marine strategems, which would indicate that the strategems can either only be used on codex marines or can only be activated if you have codex marines.

Because being a "Space Marine Stratagem" means literally nothing. What matters is what the keywords in the stratagem state (they state ADEPTUS ASTARTES). See also the FAQ regarding CSM and Death Guard.

Now, will GW Special Snowflake FAQ it like Tyranids and Daemons? Probably, but until then if you have access to the stratagems you can use them on any unit that qualifies.

Space marine actually does mean something in this book as written on page 174.

GameDadZ wrote:
Space marine actually does mean something in this book as written on page 174.

Yes, and that has zero bearing on what units you can use the Stratagems on, only what detachments unlock them.

Anyone got a pick of page 8 of the BRB?

Even if they did, I'm like 99% sure it'd be against the forum rules (and possibly illegal) to post it here.

GameDadZ wrote:
Anyone got a pick of page 8 of the BRB?

No, but the Battle Primer is available for free.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Warhammer-40k-Battle-Primer-English-3.pdf

And the Page 8 of the FAQ's here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

 BaconCatBug wrote:

GameDadZ wrote:
Space marine actually does mean something in this book as written on page 174.

Yes, and that has zero bearing on what units you can use the Stratagems on, only what detachments unlock them.

This is the literally correct (as in reading what the words mean, no more no less) reading, otherwise a WHIRLWIND stratagem could be used on a Tactical squad because Tactical Squads are space marines and thus eligible for the Space Marine Stratagem. If the Stratagem said <CHAPTER> then its a different kettle of fish because the same book that has the stratagem says DA BA etc can't be <CHAPTER> But - unless this changed in the PDF - they are still ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

Of course not all them might work like they're supposed to. If you had a combination UM/Deathwatch army, You could, hillariously, take a Watch Captain, and - as long as you don't have Marneus -make him a Chapter Master, but you'd have to choose a Space Marine Codex legal <CHAPTER> i.e. ULTRAMARINES as Watch Captain has the Captain keyword and the Rites of Battle ability (according to Battlescribe anyway, I don't have a Deathwatch codex).

You would need a proper Space Marine detachment to unlock the stratagem. Who it affects would then come down to keyword application.

In the case of the DG, they can use the Tide of Traitors stratagem on their cultists, but they still need a CSM detachment in order to access that stratagem card.

I dont have the SM book, but thats how it goes for the referenced DG interaction.