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I’m just curious if there were any single Space Marines or even a chapter size of Space Marines realizing their legion was committing treason and chose to stay loyal instead. Just thinking about creating a chapter of Space Marines that used to belong to a traitor legion that decided to stay loyal. Seems like a decent background for a new chapter.

Thanks

SG

There are countless examples of marines from legions who followed Horus that remained loyal to the Imperium. Many end up becoming founding members of the institutions that are integral to the post-Heresy Imperium.

Tons. In fact, one supposed Ultramarine descendant chapter is suspiciously close in both location and looks to Iron Warrior grand battalion who choose to remain loyal instead of rebelling (and that's just most obvious example). One whole Forge World HH book deals with blackshields (marines who left their legion and changed allegiance). There were even marines who decided to quit both sides altogether but alas, that plotline was incompetently squished by Black Library.

 ServiceGames wrote:
I’m just curious if there were any single Space Marines or even a chapter size of Space Marines realizing their legion was committing treason and chose to stay loyal instead. Just thinking about creating a chapter of Space Marines that used to belong to a traitor legion that decided to stay loyal. Seems like a decent background for a new chapter.

Thanks

SG

such a chapter with a background already exists belive it or not. it's the Grey Knights...
I'm not kidding you, the Grey Knight where founded by Marines selected from members of the Knights errant, many of them being former memebrs of the traitor legions. Janus is confirmed to be a former 1k son

The HH novels make it clear that pretty much every legion had loyal and disloyal elements to some degree or another. Most of Horus's early problems were due to a good chunk of his legions not wanting to turn cloak and having to deal with them.

Barabas Dantioch. Epic Badass and Iron Warrior.

Da Butcha wrote:
Barabas Dantioch. Epic Badass and Iron Warrior.

Iron without, GOLD WITHIN

great char.

The only traitor legion that didn't have loyalist elements was the Word Bearers because they had 50ish(?) years to secretly kill them all off before the Heresy kicked off.

But yeah, some of the coolest characters in the FW 30k books are loyalist traitors. My favorite is Kyr Vhalen.

Yeah there’s some cool fluff about a badass ven dread waging a one man war on his former legion mates and other traitors.
To the point that they nuke him from orbit rather than lose more men trying to take him out, even then it’s heavily implied that he survived.

What about the Alpha Legion?
I haven't come through all of the heresy books, but sometimes it seems, as they are originally loayal traitors who practice traitorous loyalty...

Deathwatch Black Shields are an open invitation for redemption stories.
That said they're probably mostly Alpha Legion laughing their asses off about getting information, repairs plus anti-xenos training and equipment upgrades handed to them on a plate.

Nibbler wrote:
What about the Alpha Legion?
I haven't come through all of the heresy books, but sometimes it seems, as they are originally loayal traitors who practice traitorous loyalty...

From what I know, AL warbands, and even individuals, vary wildly in their agendas. Some might be secret loyalists while others are outright Chaos worshippers.

Sure. I've always liked the headcanon that Silver Skulls are Iron Warriors, Flesh Tearers are World Eaters, Raven Guard are Thousand Sons, etc.

Plenty of creative wiggle room.

Alpha legion?

Grey Knights are indeed formed of loyal Lunar Wolves/Sons of Horus mostly aren't they?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Alpha legion?

Grey Knights are indeed formed of loyal Lunar Wolves/Sons of Horus mostly aren't they?

nah a mix of various individuals

 Coolyo294 wrote:
The only traitor legion that didn't have loyalist elements was the Word Bearers because they had 50ish(?) years to secretly kill them all off before the Heresy kicked off.

But yeah, some of the coolest characters in the FW 30k books are loyalist traitors. My favorite is Kyr Vhalen.

Spoiler:

Barthusa Narek is arguably a loyalist Word Bearer.

Engrenages wrote:
Barthusa Narek is arguably a loyalist Word Bearer.

Only really in that he wants to kill Lorgar. IIRC he still believes in overthrowing the Emperor, but doesn't support the Legion's descent into Chaos.

I think it would be harder to find traitors in the Loyalist Legions than loyalists in the Traitor Legions.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
Barthusa Narek is arguably a loyalist Word Bearer.

Only really in that he wants to kill Lorgar. IIRC he still believes in overthrowing the Emperor, but doesn't support the Legion's descent into Chaos.

I remember him being loyal to the Emperor in his own (twisted) way, I'd have to re-read the books he appears in.

Garviel Loken; one of Horus’s Mourneval, he stayed loyal to the end. Nathaniel Garro of the Death Guard as well. Lucius was loyal (although crazy) for a while before he switched on Istvaan. He also killed his EC friend/rival (who stayed loyal) when he went Chaos. There are a ton more. Most died as heroes or were stripped of their chapter and moved into other roles to hide them from the shame of their legions turning to Chaos.

I wonder about a 2nd purge amongst the traitors. Fighting against humanity to unite it under one government might seem like hubris driven cruelty. Naked imperialism serving only one madman. Betraying that government might seem righteous. But what about watching your rebellion mutate and devolve into something worse than what you had rebelled against? After a while might some element amongst the rebels realize what was happening?

 Red Marine wrote:
I wonder about a 2nd purge amongst the traitors. Fighting against humanity to unite it under one government might seem like hubris driven cruelty. Naked imperialism serving only one madman. Betraying that government might seem righteous. But what about watching your rebellion mutate and devolve into something worse than what you had rebelled against? After a while might some element amongst the rebels realize what was happening?

In the legions that didn't fall too hard too fast to chaos, it's probable that some marines realized that things went horribly wrong at some point. But if they did anything about it, they'd certainly be seen as weaklings and/or traitors by the chaos worshippers and as already corrupted by the Imperium. The odds of anyone surviving in that situation aren't great...

There's a bit in The First Heretic where, immediately after Monarchia with the Word Bearers gathered as a legion, Lorgar announces that his judgment has been called into question, so as a team-building exercise they're going to kill every last man, woman, and child on a nearby planet. Nobody thinks to say "Gee Glorious Aurelian, Father to us all, are you sure you're not just some genocidal madman?"

I suspect that part of the reason the Traitor Legions fell so easily is that they were already in the business of apocalyptic genocidal crusading, so doing it in the name of Horus rather than the Emperor was just more business-as-usual.

 Anfauglir wrote:
Sure. I've always liked the headcanon that Silver Skulls are Iron Warriors, Flesh Tearers are World Eaters, Raven Guard are Thousand Sons, etc.

Plenty of creative wiggle room.

I think/hope you mean Blood Ravens, not Raven Guard, there.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:
Sure. I've always liked the headcanon that Silver Skulls are Iron Warriors, Flesh Tearers are World Eaters, Raven Guard are Thousand Sons, etc.

Plenty of creative wiggle room.

I think/hope you mean Blood Ravens, not Raven Guard, there.

I'm almost positive that both the Silver Skulls & Blood Ravens were started by former Thousand Sons.

The Blood Ravens / Loyalist Corvidae connection has never been explicitly confirmed (and IMO it never should be, leave the mystery) but there's a mountain of circumstantial evidence pointing in that direction