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Quick question.

If I were to use the SM codex and certain successor chapter tactics - going full Raven Guard pushes disbelief slightly imo - to represent an Alpha Legion Counterinsurgency/Recon/Headhunter cell using Vanguard...would that get frowned on in the following:

FLGS
GW
GW Tournament
Independent Tournament

Just curious as to your thoughts and experiences in any of the above settings.

I currently don't play in any of the above venues so can't provide info around meta/attitudes of players or organisers.

Cheers

As with all things. the only way to know is to actually ask those venues.

Personally i wouldn't care as long as it is fully declared before playing. bonus points for a very well painted built and customized army.

Bit more info: It would all be Phobos pattern and adhere fully to the SM codex rules so to all intents and purposes WYSIWYG and legal - no cultists or homebrew gubbins.

They will just have the heraldry of the 20th.

i would nto care and actually really alpha legion as another chapter to me just means they finally revealed themselves within said chapter. As long as weapons are wysiwyg on models and I am not having to remember equipment and counts as models all over the place its fine in any setting.

Side ntoe its actually cool imo to run alpha legion as a ... oh look these new primaris are now chaos/renegade because alpha legion shenanagins and infitrating marines in to receive the primaris upgrades.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Bit more info: It would all be Phobos pattern and adhere fully to the SM codex rules so to all intents and purposes WYSIWYG and legal - no cultists or homebrew gubbins.

They will just have the heraldry of the 20th.

Then yeah no one will care. if you are worried in the case of tournaments go ahead and check in first with the TO

Edit: if i could make a suggestion. you should totally fully paint the guys like generic marines but mark the models with secret alpha legion symbols in ether a similar colored highlighter (maybe) or a phosphorescent paint. take a black light and reveal your deception when you win

 Desubot wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Bit more info: It would all be Phobos pattern and adhere fully to the SM codex rules so to all intents and purposes WYSIWYG and legal - no cultists or homebrew gubbins.

They will just have the heraldry of the 20th.

Then yeah no one will care. if you are worried in the case of tournaments go ahead and check in first with the TO

Edit: if i could make a suggestion. you should totally fully paint the guys like generic marines but mark the models with secret alpha legion symbols in ether a similar colored highlighter (maybe) or a phosphorescent paint. take a black light and reveal your deception when you win

Good suggestion but knowing me I wouldn't be revealing anything often : )

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Bit more info: It would all be Phobos pattern and adhere fully to the SM codex rules so to all intents and purposes WYSIWYG and legal - no cultists or homebrew gubbins.

They will just have the heraldry of the 20th.

Na no issue, that would be a totally "legit" marine army.
Just unusually experienced if you get my meaning

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Bit more info: It would all be Phobos pattern and adhere fully to the SM codex rules so to all intents and purposes WYSIWYG and legal - no cultists or homebrew gubbins.

They will just have the heraldry of the 20th.

Na no issue, that would be a totally "legit" marine army.
Just unusually experienced if you get my meaning

Hydra Dominatus then

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Bit more info: It would all be Phobos pattern and adhere fully to the SM codex rules so to all intents and purposes WYSIWYG and legal - no cultists or homebrew gubbins.

They will just have the heraldry of the 20th.

Na no issue, that would be a totally "legit" marine army.
Just unusually experienced if you get my meaning

Hydra Dominatus then

All the way, until the throne room is ours.

If the primary difference is a paint job, no one will care. Start running CSM as Intercessors and you'll need TO approval

Would this work for an Unforgiven army?

ERJAK wrote:
If the primary difference is a paint job, no one will care. Start running CSM as Intercessors and you'll need TO approval

Considering consistent kitbashes that are clear nobody should care.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Would this work for an Unforgiven army?

Probably?

I just started the same project.
Got some pauldrons from shapeways with nice Alpha heraldry and started to build / paint an all primaris alpha legion alias "the Chained Alphas" - Cawl did some shenanigans with Alpharius geneseed, obviously...

I'm not sure witch chapter traits are usable, since I don't want to go full Ravenguard.
Obviously "stealthy" is necessary, but I've got no idea for the second choice... maybe the leadership thing (-Ld within 3") or the duellist trait. (open for suggestions at this point)

Nibbler wrote:
I just started the same project.
Got some pauldrons from shapeways with nice Alpha heraldry and started to build / paint an all primaris alpha legion alias "the Chained Alphas" - Cawl did some shenanigans with Alpharius geneseed, obviously...

I'm not sure witch chapter traits are usable, since I don't want to go full Ravenguard.
Obviously "stealthy" is necessary, but I've got no idea for the second choice... maybe the leadership thing (-Ld within 3") or the duellist trait. (open for suggestions at this point)

That's not how al works.
AL isnt just sneaky, AL is decentral, every one supposedly can do anything that is required.
So naturally you'd want a generalistic improvement trait.
Thirdly, AL isn't just sneaky but also about Informationen.
Deception and planning ahead.

My homebrew chapter, Night Ravens are all Primaris and are ostensibly Raven Guard successors but are rumoured to actually be Night Lord successors. With the old codex I ran them with Raven Guard chapter tactics, but with the new create your own rules I’m planning to go with stealthy and fearsome aspect.

For Alpha Legion I think the best fit would be Stealthy for the sneakiness and Bolter Fusillades. This effectively gives all your bolter units the Captain aura. I think that’s a pretty good way to represent the alpha legion being able to operate independently of HQs. I think that would be a pretty good way to run an Alpha Legion force.

Aash wrote:
My homebrew chapter, Night Ravens are all Primaris and are ostensibly Raven Guard successors but are rumoured to actually be Night Lord successors. With the old codex I ran them with Raven Guard chapter tactics, but with the new create your own rules I’m planning to go with stealthy and fearsome aspect.

For Alpha Legion I think the best fit would be Stealthy for the sneakiness and Bolter Fusillades. This effectively gives all your bolter units the Captain aura. I think that’s a pretty good way to represent the alpha legion being able to operate independently of HQs. I think that would be a pretty good way to run an Alpha Legion force.

And we have a winner.
Of course the new sneaky marines would also probably be veeeerry much liked

I do something along these lines with my mostly primaris space marine force. I use death guard head and scythe upgrades from forgeworld and a crossed scythe emblem from shapeways as the shoulder pad insignia and painted in the old legion colours.
The main reason is I have quite a big 30k death guard legion army and i wanted to use sicarans and some other units with them and so far I haven't had any opponents or TO's have any issues

aldo1234 wrote:
I do something along these lines with my mostly primaris space marine force. I use death guard head and scythe upgrades from forgeworld and a crossed scythe emblem from shapeways as the shoulder pad insignia and painted in the old legion colours.
The main reason is I have quite a big 30k death guard legion army and i wanted to use sicarans and some other units with them and so far I haven't had any opponents or TO's have any issues

You should be able to run sicarians with DG though?

Really to do Alpha Legion representation we would need a pre-game phase like Blucher!

I definitely get what you mean and the Bolter Fusilade thing sounds pretty decent...
Maybe I hop on that train and use that.

IIRC there are no traits that represent a tactical advantage in a way that seems fitting for alpha legion like legions...

Nibbler wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Nibbler wrote:
I just started the same project.
Got some pauldrons from shapeways with nice Alpha heraldry and started to build / paint an all primaris alpha legion alias "the Chained Alphas" - Cawl did some shenanigans with Alpharius geneseed, obviously...

I'm not sure witch chapter traits are usable, since I don't want to go full Ravenguard.
Obviously "stealthy" is necessary, but I've got no idea for the second choice... maybe the leadership thing (-Ld within 3") or the duellist trait. (open for suggestions at this point)

That's not how al works.
AL isnt just sneaky, AL is decentral, every one supposedly can do anything that is required.
So naturally you'd want a generalistic improvement trait.
Thirdly, AL isn't just sneaky but also about Informationen.
Deception and planning ahead.

I definitely get what you mean and the Bolter Fusilade thing sounds pretty decent...
Maybe I hop on that train and use that.

IIRC there are no traits that represent a tactical advantage in a way that seems fitting for alpha legion like legions...

Well there once was a stratagem that got nerfed into the ground.

As long as you're using the correct models (as required by the rules) you can make your chapter THE ALPHA LEGION just fine. You can't, RaW, use Chaos Marine models with Loyalist rules, however.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
As long as you're using the correct models (as required by the rules) you can make your chapter THE ALPHA LEGION just fine. You can't, RaW, use Chaos Marine models with Loyalist rules, however.

As if someone would actually care.
What really matters is that the unit is identifiable easily.

As a fellow alpha legion player I find the idea intriguing. Particularly the chance at using exodus and other assassination elements. While I wouldn't have a problem with it and I doubt my gaming groups would either I'm just not sure loyalist rules actually do it better overall.

What's the basics of the list your considering?

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Bit more info: It would all be Phobos pattern and adhere fully to the SM codex rules so to all intents and purposes WYSIWYG and legal - no cultists or homebrew gubbins.

They will just have the heraldry of the 20th.

Yeah I can't see an event having a problem with that. They're Primaris so they're obviously not from the chaos Dex, and you're using their intended codex, it's basically just a different paintjob, and since its not a "known" successor, you're not locked to anything like some successor chapters would be. And if you pick lore friendly abilities like Stealthy, itll probably be pretty obvious for most opponents.

For what it's worth, I think lore wise I like Stealthy and Tactical Withdrawal for alpha legion, but you could argue almost any of these with alpha legion depending on the cell in question. I could see some of the shooting or melee buffs being used to display their skill at arms and how they love to fight other marines for the challenge for example.

dominuschao wrote:
As a fellow alpha legion player I find the idea intriguing. Particularly the chance at using exodus and other assassination elements. While I wouldn't have a problem with it and I doubt my gaming groups would either I'm just not sure loyalist rules actually do it better overall.

What's the basics of the list your considering?

Well I need to get the generic SM codex first.

No cultists/operatives I just think the new Phobos range suits AL better than the CSM codex.

Having read Praetorian of Dorn.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
As a fellow alpha legion player I find the idea intriguing. Particularly the chance at using exodus and other assassination elements. While I wouldn't have a problem with it and I doubt my gaming groups would either I'm just not sure loyalist rules actually do it better overall.

What's the basics of the list your considering?

Well I need to get the generic SM codex first.

No cultists/operatives I just think the new Phobos range suits AL better than the CSM codex.

Having read Praetorian of Dorn.

Scouts as agents /infiltratators?

Nah, going to dispense with old marines.

Eliminators, or whatever the sniper Primaris are called, will fulfil that role.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Nah, going to dispense with old marines.

Eliminators, or whatever the sniper Primaris are called, will fulfil that role.

used mine from shadowspear for some ghostly Chosen with combibolters.
They are great models.