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Hey mates. Personally am loving the new Invictor Tactical Warsuit and as it stands, I plan to field ateast 2x of them in my army for the potential they can bring. That being said, while I personally plan to magnetize mine, I am curious to know which main weapon do you like best between the two of them and why? The Ironhail Autocannon is great for the consistent 6x Autocannon Shots, but the Incendium Cannon has a ton of potential as well with the 2D6 auto-hits.

depends how you're going to sue it, if you make full use of iit's infiltration ability the flame cannon sounds like a great weapon

BrianDavion wrote:
depends how you're going to sue it, if you make full use of iit's infiltration ability the flame cannon sounds like a great weapon

Yes, burn the closest unit to make your charge longer.

 p5freak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
depends how you're going to sue it, if you make full use of iit's infiltration ability the flame cannon sounds like a great weapon

Yes, burn the closest unit to make your charge longer.

Since it can walk to 1" away from a unit before firing, not really an issue. In response to the op I like the look of the flamer too but not used one yet. The autocannon will give greater flexibility if you dont want to get stuck into melee early though.

Dudeface wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
depends how you're going to sue it, if you make full use of iit's infiltration ability the flame cannon sounds like a great weapon

Yes, burn the closest unit to make your charge longer.

Since it can walk to 1" away from a unit before firing, not really an issue. In response to the op I like the look of the flamer too but not used one yet. The autocannon will give greater flexibility if you dont want to get stuck into melee early though.

Not an issue when you set it up more than 9" away from enemy models ?

It s a highly mobile, forward deploying unit that is relatively easy to damage and with a degrading BS - this says "Take the flamer!" to me ;-)

If you want longer ranged fire support look elsewhere, a set of suppressors are a good option now.

Autocannon Dreads do the same job of the auto-invictor for cheaper, so I'd go with the flamer

It's a perfect answer to ghostkeels and I can't wait to use them against my friend

 p5freak wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
depends how you're going to sue it, if you make full use of iit's infiltration ability the flame cannon sounds like a great weapon

Yes, burn the closest unit to make your charge longer.

Since it can walk to 1" away from a unit before firing, not really an issue. In response to the op I like the look of the flamer too but not used one yet. The autocannon will give greater flexibility if you dont want to get stuck into melee early though.

Not an issue when you set it up more than 9" away from enemy models ?

10" movement, easy charges, or am I forgetting something that infiltrating units can't do (I've not used many this edition, definitely not recently)? it'll be hard to fail early charges with these guys.

If you want to clear a screen turn 1 and then charge the autocannon will hit on 4s while the flamer will autohit. With all the dakka it has you should easily be able to clear a screen without problem and then charge the unit behind and kill it in CC turn 1.

So I think it depends on what role it will most likely have in the game. If you want a support fire platform that can move 10" and then fight with its fist in melee when the enemy get close I would take the autocannon. Its just 10 points more expensive than a normal auto cannon dread but has a really good melee weapon, 4" extra movement and trade 2 autocannon shots for about 12 bolter/heavy bolter shots. Totally worth it, sure it has lower T and degrades but it also has 5 extra wounds to make up for it + better deployment rule.

If you are gonna play it aggressively most of the time I would take 3 with flamers and a few scout squads and really put pressure on the enemy from turn 1.

 p5freak wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
depends how you're going to sue it, if you make full use of iit's infiltration ability the flame cannon sounds like a great weapon

Yes, burn the closest unit to make your charge longer.

Since it can walk to 1" away from a unit before firing, not really an issue. In response to the op I like the look of the flamer too but not used one yet. The autocannon will give greater flexibility if you dont want to get stuck into melee early though.

Not an issue when you set it up more than 9" away from enemy models ?

Its in the deployment phase. You can still move 10". It doesn't use the "Deep Strike" style rules that GW keeps giving a different name to for some dumb reason, but an "infiltrate" style rule.
Something that Kommandos and Flayed Ones should have also had, really.

Invictors Dread wants to go close. So I believe the Heavy Flamer is better choice.

Due to its deployment method, I'm gonna vote Incendium. Deploy just outside 9" of TWO enemy units, move 6", vaporize one of then with the Incendium, and charge the other.

-

I'd go autocannon all day. It's just the better weapon. Longer range with higher str and damage and about the same number of shot - you just gotta roll to hit.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'd go autocannon all day. It's just the better weapon. Longer range with higher str and damage and about the same number of shot - you just gotta roll to hit.

But at that point, why not just use Ven Dread with 2 Twin Autocannons? It's cheaper, has higher T, has a better BS (that does NOT degrade) and actually has 8 shots instead of 6. The only downside is that it's an Index option, which shouldn't be a downside at all

Which is why I'd use the Incenduim if using the Invictor. While not the best option, it's the best match for the platform

-

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'd go autocannon all day. It's just the better weapon. Longer range with higher str and damage and about the same number of shot - you just gotta roll to hit.

But at that point, why not just use Ven Dread with 2 Twin Autocannons? It's cheaper, has higher T, has a better BS (that does NOT degrade) and actually has 8 shots instead of 6. The only downside is that it's an Index option, which shouldn't be a downside at all

-

Yeah, in my SM armies I usually don't go out with 3 Ven Dreads with dual autocannons led by one or two Techmarines.
The Invitor looks a bit strange if you ask me. I'll stay away from it atm.

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'd go autocannon all day. It's just the better weapon. Longer range with higher str and damage and about the same number of shot - you just gotta roll to hit.

But at that point, why not just use Ven Dread with 2 Twin Autocannons? It's cheaper, has higher T, has a better BS (that does NOT degrade) and actually has 8 shots instead of 6. The only downside is that it's an Index option, which shouldn't be a downside at all

Which is why I'd use the Incenduim if using the Invictor. While not the best option, it's the best match for the platform

-

It's got more wounds and secondary weapons I suppose. Not to mention close combat ability (a pretty big deal). Actually in the comparison. It's quite OP compared to a venerable dread. LOL.

I get that the flamer is a "close range weapon". It's just not a lot better at close range damage than the autocannon and the autocannon can still hit targets at long range. Sure it overwatches better - that is the main advantage of the flamer and that could come in handy. It's not gonna save you from a lot of tough units charging you though and that is where the T6 is gonna hurt you.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'd go autocannon all day. It's just the better weapon. Longer range with higher str and damage and about the same number of shot - you just gotta roll to hit.

But at that point, why not just use Ven Dread with 2 Twin Autocannons? It's cheaper, has higher T, has a better BS (that does NOT degrade) and actually has 8 shots instead of 6. The only downside is that it's an Index option, which shouldn't be a downside at all

Which is why I'd use the Incenduim if using the Invictor. While not the best option, it's the best match for the platform

-

It's got more wounds and secondary weapons I suppose. Not to mention close combat ability (a pretty big deal). Actually in the comparison. It's quite OP compared to a venerable dread. LOL.

I get that the flamer is a "close range weapon". It's just not a lot better at close range damage than the autocannon and the autocannon can still hit targets at long range. Sure it overwatches better - that is the main advantage of the flamer and that could come in handy. It's not gonna save you from a lot of tough units charging you though and that is where the T6 is gonna hurt you.

And a venerable dread hits on 2s, so it has way more firepower while sitting far away from any enemies, so there's no reason to have a CCW

The flamer is heavy so first turn it hits with -2 ap. With 2d6 one can clear much more than chaff.

Yeah, the Invictus definitely has a use as a distraction carnifex that can actually do work if your opponent ignores the distraction.

Hide it behind a ruin or a wall as best you can during deployment, then during turn 1 run around the corner and provide beatings.

Heck, if you are an Ultramarines one you could also run away and flame again if you wanted if you get counter charged!

 p5freak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
depends how you're going to sue it, if you make full use of iit's infiltration ability the flame cannon sounds like a great weapon

Yes, burn the closest unit to make your charge longer.

It moves 10 and shoots 12", it can easily charge something else and the overwatch keeps it from just being charged by a squad of guardsmen and ignored for a few turns. It's definitely the right way to go. The way these things are meant to be used I doubt youd ever really need the autocannon profile

As much as I love Dakka, I have enough of that, I think. This guy is going to be using the Flamer if I get one.

It's big, it's tough, it's durable. It can deploy 9" from the opponent’s deployment zone...

Incendium Cannon for me. Burny burny goodness

Depending on your opponent’s forces you can either

a) Make use of Concealed Position to deploy it so it is immediately in threat range. If you get T1 it’s got a fair amout of dakka punch through any screens and hit something big and juicy with that Invictus fist. If you don’t get T1 then it’ll need a fair amount of attention to bring it down.

or

b) In those circumstances where you don’t want to deploy it ahead you can keep it with your main force and apply some fearsome firepower and CC potential for anything that gets to close.

The twin ironhail autocannon is sweet too, don’t get me wrong (what’s not to love about the equivalent of 3 autocannons on a single arm).

However to me the main thing the warsuit offers that similar untis don't is being able to start the game so it can immediately get up close and mess with the opponents forces. It likely to be moving, and charge/ be charged, here I think the burny burny goodness beats the impressive dakka.

I went looking through my codex at these two last night ... and I can’t believe GW pointed the Invictus cheaper than the Redemptor.

However, Mad Doc”s thread about body horrors has given me an idea - I’d like to get hold of the Invictus model and replace the roll cage with a transparent “glass” sarcophagus, in which the shape of a fetal positioned, mortally wounded marine’s body can be seen floating inside.

 Stormonu wrote:
I went looking through my codex at these two last night ... and I can’t believe GW pointed the Invictus cheaper than the Redemptor.

However, Mad Doc”s thread about body horrors has given me an idea - I’d like to get hold of the Invictus model and replace the roll cage with a transparent “glass” sarcophagus, in which the shape of a fetal positioned, mortally wounded marine’s body can be seen floating inside.

I have a hunch...

...that the incendium cannon cost is incorrect.

For 1 point more than a heavy flamer its two heavy flamers plus 4".

I think people stacking these things need to be aware of the impending point increase in the future. I imagine something like 30 points is more appropriate.

It wants to be in melee, that requires moving, thus flamer.

They also do really similar damage and you can get better long range shooting out of contemptors and vendreads.

Yeah, I'd say flamer is just superior.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nekooni wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'd go autocannon all day. It's just the better weapon. Longer range with higher str and damage and about the same number of shot - you just gotta roll to hit.

But at that point, why not just use Ven Dread with 2 Twin Autocannons? It's cheaper, has higher T, has a better BS (that does NOT degrade) and actually has 8 shots instead of 6. The only downside is that it's an Index option, which shouldn't be a downside at all

Which is why I'd use the Incenduim if using the Invictor. While not the best option, it's the best match for the platform

-

It's got more wounds and secondary weapons I suppose. Not to mention close combat ability (a pretty big deal). Actually in the comparison. It's quite OP compared to a venerable dread. LOL.

I get that the flamer is a "close range weapon". It's just not a lot better at close range damage than the autocannon and the autocannon can still hit targets at long range. Sure it overwatches better - that is the main advantage of the flamer and that could come in handy. It's not gonna save you from a lot of tough units charging you though and that is where the T6 is gonna hurt you.

And a venerable dread hits on 2s, so it has way more firepower while sitting far away from any enemies, so there's no reason to have a CCW

The ironhail does do fairly impressive long range damage, even at -1 to hit, but the degrading table is a serious consideration unless you're running iron hands, and so is single wound models. Against single wound models the ironhail does less than half the damage of the flamer. Considering you generally want to be shooting chaff and letting your powerfist take care of the other stuff, I still say stick with the flamer.

I do enjoy though that for once GW has created an actual choice as far as weapon options go.

ERJAK wrote:
I do enjoy though that for once GW has created an actual choice as far as weapon options go.

I feel like this is a theme with this new codex, it's not the case for everything but way more options are worth considering.

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Hey mates. Personally am loving the new Invictor Tactical Warsuit and as it stands, I plan to field ateast 2x of them in my army for the potential they can bring. That being said, while I personally plan to magnetize mine, I am curious to know which main weapon do you like best between the two of them and why? The Ironhail Autocannon is great for the consistent 6x Autocannon Shots, but the Incendium Cannon has a ton of potential as well with the 2D6 auto-hits.

If I see the sprue correctly, and it works like the other Dreads, I'm not sure you need to magnetize the gun arm?

2D6 should average 7 shots a turn - which should average 7 hits a turn. The Autocannon should average 6 shots, and 4 hits. 7 D1 hits with some gamble to it, vs 4 D2 hits. The range is also a factor, but but not much of one for an infiltrator. I expect to go Autocannon most of the time.

Breton wrote:

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Hey mates. Personally am loving the new Invictor Tactical Warsuit and as it stands, I plan to field ateast 2x of them in my army for the potential they can bring. That being said, while I personally plan to magnetize mine, I am curious to know which main weapon do you like best between the two of them and why? The Ironhail Autocannon is great for the consistent 6x Autocannon Shots, but the Incendium Cannon has a ton of potential as well with the 2D6 auto-hits.

If I see the sprue correctly, and it works like the other Dreads, I'm not sure you need to magnetize the gun arm?

2D6 should average 7 shots a turn - which should average 7 hits a turn. The Autocannon should average 6 shots, and 4 hits. 7 D1 hits with some gamble to it, vs 4 D2 hits. The range is also a factor, but but not much of one for an infiltrator. I expect to go Autocannon most of the time.

More like 3 hits if you are moving with your dread. If you are taking advantage of the infiltrating och melee capabilities it is more likely you are moving and then its 7vs3 hits. But since it is so cheap you could use it as a stationary dakka dread that gets to keep its fist.

I kinda wish it had 2 different data sheets so I could take 3 with the flamer and 3 with the autocannon At its current price I wouldn't mind 6 of them. Only 800pts.

Klickor wrote:


More like 3 hits if you are moving with your dread. If you are taking advantage of the infiltrating och melee capabilities it is more likely you are moving and then its 7vs3 hits. But since it is so cheap you could use it as a stationary dakka dread that gets to keep its fist.

I kinda wish it had 2 different data sheets so I could take 3 with the flamer and 3 with the autocannon At its current price I wouldn't mind 6 of them. Only 800pts.

True, I'm assuming UM, Tactical Doctrine, and Scions. I'd be more inclined to take 7 S5 -1 D1 than 3 S7 -1 2 most of the time. But range, and S7 for T5/6 will come into play as well depending on what you play against most often. Given this setup, you're most likely looking to use the fist than the shoota or the burna in either case. As for taking six, I'm sad this isn't a Fast Attack choice. I'd like to take 3 of these, and 3 Redemptors. Making the opponent focus on the infiltrating "Dreads" because they're closer should buy some time for the Redemptors and/or Repulsors etc. to get into position. If they don't focus on the infiltrating Dreads, it should be easy-ish to take advantage of that. Your opponent is going to shoot at something, might as well make neither choice the right choice.