Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys,
the Codex has been out for some itme now, and now that we more or less know how to play them, let's see how to beat them, shall we ?

So a primaris is a T4, 2W, 2A, 3+ soldier with an antitroop weapon: the bolt rifle 30" S4 AP-1 rapidfire. That's the basis.
But wht are their main characteristics as an army ?

They have antigrav tanks. They have good stratagems, good heavy hitting characters (smash captains and chaplains) plenty of bubbles and support characters (anciens, lieutenants, librarians, CM...) no invu saves at all, infiltrating and deep striking units ( invictors, reivers...), characters sniping units (even without Los) and a certain number of line troops (usually about 30-60 intercessors). They rely on their good stratagems and psy support and rerolls bubbles to make the most of their small number.
The AT part of the army is often rerolling HB or executionner repulsors: not a lot of choices but it's quite efficient with 4 rerolling S10 shots for example.

They are a mobile army, don't underestimate them: yes they can castle, but with antigrav transports infiltrating units and jump pack characters (they often play classic marine characters), they can be in your face T1, literally.

I found assassins, especially the Callidus, to be a potent opponent to primaris lists in general: they can deep strike close to the support characters or small units and kill them on the charge (a 4 wounds libby or a 3 man eliminator squad) while messing with their precious stratagems and CP.
Invu saves are another good tactics against primaris, as only the librarian can ignore them with null zone: don't let him approach and cast it on your night or terminators.
D2 weapons such as battle cannons and plasma weapons are a given: every failed wound is a dead primaris. Twice as efficient as a D1 weapon.
Lascannanons are very efficient too against their invu lacking tanks.

If you want to assault them, do it before T3, as their cc weapons will usually get +1AP on T3.

What are your personnal experiences agaiinst them ? Any favortite tactics or weapon ?

I run primarily Primaris and the following things are a problem for the various DA/IH/DW primaris lists I've run:

1) Thousand Sons. All those extra armor saves and invuls negate the bonus from the upgraded bolt rifles. Theya re also psyker heavy and the Primaris Psyker powers aren't great and their psykers come in at 100+ points.

2) Tyranids. I mean, you can field 4-5 grunts for each primaris I bring out - it really shows the biggest weakness of Primaris lists - a lack of high Rate of Fire. With the Hive Tyrants taking out my one counter - redemptor dreadnoughts, it can be a frustrating experience

3) Imperial Guard. It's both problems put together. You don't care about the 20 or so guardsmen I remove each turn and you'll field 2-3 tanks for every tank I field. I can mitigate this with oldmarines, but then I'm not primaris am I? Then we get to those cheap psykers that Deny the Witch at half the cost of mine...

Don't play the quality race with Primaris. They are already amongst the highest on the quality/cost spectrum and you don't win by playing their game. Instead, go the opposite direction and drown them in melee.

The number of times I've had to sit there and roll my palty number of rifle-butt melee attacks against hordes of cheap infantry that roll buckets against me has been as karma-like as it has been frustrating. The fact that all my fancy shooting toys are soon swarmed by sacrificial melee is just as frustrating.

They’re much more Killy than before, but they are(for the most part) as durable as before.

You pretty much handle them the same as before, but make sure your using good screens to keep Invictors away and drown them in shots.

Primaris lists are actually much more durable after the codex. Not because they gained some buff or new rules (which in some cases they did), but because they now play a lot of highly efficient troops.

Primaris were frail when you were forced to play hellblasters, inceptors and aggressors if you wanted to pack a punch, and intercessors were only a tax.

Now the intercessors are the main part of the army and at 17 points each there is nothing frail about them. In addition, Aggressors have become quite resilient for their points, and eliminators were never frail to begin with. The wounds to points ratio of marine lists has hugely improved.

Primaris really don't like S8 D2 weapons the higher the AP the better, but that said anything S5 + with D2 or D3 and AP does a number on them.

What Spoletta said. It's like they're getting battalion cp for running vanguard detachments. And now superior deployment and no LoS shooting and sniping. It's a whole different army really.

Plasma. And all variants thereof. Secondly, any damage 2 source, even with poor AP.

autocannon level weapons has and always will be the reason low toughness 2W models will never be a severe threat. Too easy to mass, counter too reliably.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
autocannon level weapons has and always will be the reason low toughness 2W models will never be a severe threat. Too easy to mass, counter too reliably.

Intercessors are much more dangerous now with an extra -1 AP from Turn 2, a pretty solid anti-horde weapon option in the auto bolt rifle, an extra attack on the charge, more damage from range with bolter discipline and the standard bolt rifle, and a selection of powerful stratagems that no longer require extensive amounts of CP investment to unlock. And that's just the main line troopers. I really don't think there are enough autocannons around to truly take on a horde of 60 Intercessors before falling to attrition, which now happens much quicker than it used to. Sure, 60 takes up half a list, but even 30 are pretty difficult to handle effectively with a handful of new, tasty T6 and T7 units ready to cause much more trouble for you so your target priority becomes a bit more difficult.

No, you shoot the weapons that one-shot the primaris at the primaris. The new dread thing can be tarpitted, smitten, etc. Intercessors are only improved on the marine player turn. They still die just like before the codex.

60 intercessors?
I have never seen a marine player run that many REGULAR marines before let alone primaris extra-costly ones.
That is, in a standard game.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
60 intercessors?
I have never seen a marine player run that many REGULAR marines before let alone primaris extra-costly ones.
That is, in a standard game.

It's over 1020 points at cheapest without HQ's or any of the other things you need to have a viable list, it's basically a squew list,
But it does have it's own hard counters. Double leviathan builds are a think and they would eat that list as would any list with multiple avanger gattling knights.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
60 intercessors?
I have never seen a marine player run that many REGULAR marines before let alone primaris extra-costly ones.
That is, in a standard game.

Must be different metas. Many players, who like me - joined in 8th edition, field those numbers. I mean its the easiest way to fill out troop slots and intercessors were good at thier job before CodexII. I ran 50 intercessors even in my DW list, not counting the Primaris officers or the 10 Hellblasters.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
60 intercessors?
I have never seen a marine player run that many REGULAR marines before let alone primaris extra-costly ones.
That is, in a standard game.

Must be different metas. Many players, who like me - joined in 8th edition, field those numbers. I mean its the easiest way to fill out troop slots and intercessors were good at thier job before CodexII. I ran 50 intercessors even in my DW list, not counting the Primaris officers or the 10 Hellblasters.

My csm army that is autocannon heavy would've had a field day

How to beat Primaris?

Autocannon spam!

3+ to wound, -1AP...

Something my 3 Leman Russ Exterminators can do very well!

Drukhari are now a bit of a double-edged sword against them where you have one EXCEEDINGLY potent tool to deal with them and they have some exceedingly potent tools to deal with you.

Drukhari hate everything to do with bolt rifles, the new dreadsuits (which are ideal for hunting Venoms and other -1 to hit 4+5++ vehicles) and the low-T high-sv/Wounds infantry vs our Splinter weaponry. Intercessors in cover are a bitch to deal with for everything except the Disintegrators, which is why you want to bring as many disintegrators as you can.

You used to be able to swarm Wyches across the board and tie up marine armies with them, but with shock assault and their bolt pistol attacks in the following shooting phase I think that's a thing of the past.

Talos/Grot+Dissie spam is going to be the build I think, going into a "marines aren't trash" meta.That was already kind of where things were, but it'll be even more consolidated now. If it ain't got S5+ Ap-1 D2 melee attacks it aint gak for dealing with primaris.

Kabal battalion with 3x5 warriors, Archons with the RR wounds relic, 3x dissie ravagers, then a battalion 3x5 wracks and haemies and Taloi for the rest of your points I think is a good meta list for the cycle we'll be going into.