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At the start of 8th edition, it really felt like GW had turned the corner and really pulled itself out a long, slow decline.

We got a new edition, that despite recent fears from AoS, did not completely wipe away the old lore nor marines -it actually supplemented it. We got a new edition of the rules that was a simpler, bottom to top revision. Complete indexes for GWs entire 40K line were released at one time, in combined indexes, instead of spaced-out codex releases, so everyone had at least their basic rules at start. Different levels of product allowed you to buy into the game at convenient price points - free PDF/Rules Primer, Let’s Play, Know No Fear, First Strike And Dark Imperium sets. Start Collecting sets gave convent points to start an army, with some actual, If mild, discounts. Yearly updates were released and regular FAQs promised. Full-blown Codexes started rolling out for those who wanted “advanced” rules for their faction. New Sisters models were promised. Boxed sets of new releases made regular appearances, and GW started to interact - positively- with the online community.

However, GW has been counting some of its more subtle, but strongly disliked practices - and it fells like the honeymoon of initial happiness with 8E is wearing off.

Prices for new sets noticeably increase with each iteration, and now old kit prices are being pushed up in cost. Forgeworld prices for non-UK took a leap. GW Rules writing remains sloppy. Rulesets (such a Necromunda, Kill Team and now the Marine Codexes) are being dole out in DLC-type blocs. GW has been doubling down on Primaris releases, halting model releases for oldMarine kits. Xenos releases - especially for “new” faction Ynarri have slowed beyond a crawl in favor of Imperium vs. Chaos.

I feel my enthusiasm for GW is fast fading and suspect it will be negatively affecting any desire to collect more 40K in the future. Does anyone else feel like GW is “falling back” into old, bad habits and will it affect your own purchases or play habits?

It seems like people are willing to both pay for fragmented rule sets and like the new model lines and buy them. The player base maybe different, and not just based on country income to army cost, then from what it once was. But I really doubt GW is going to go "down" anytime soon. If anything they seem to be growing real nice.

Now parts of the player base may feel not that good, but the company is more then fine.

As old vs new habits goes. From what I understand, GW before new mangment didn't do jokes and memes on their facebook. Now I generaly don't understand jokes, so nothing changed from me. But from a buyers perspective GW stayed the same, they still sell over costed rules and models people love very much.

I think 40K has 3 things working for them.

1. The rules are the strongest they have been sense 3rd Edition. That doesn't mean they are great, but Stronger.

2. The cost of joining to play is cheaper that it has been. Starter boxes like Dark Imperium, Renegades, and Shadowspear and resellers like Amazon really make it cheap. And then if you go further, even the simplest of google searches shows ways the cost drops even further.

3. 40K game play hits the sweet spot in ease of play and competitive for people right now. Warmahordes is considered too hard. AOS is considered too easy.

I felt that quite clearly with the last Space Marine Codex.
I play from a very long time, and after a decade of almost no purchase I bought a full Alpha Legion army at the beginning of 8th.
The last releases for Chaos and Marine (and previously the pseudo-formation in Vigilus) kind of kill my enthusiasm for 8th.

I think that the near future will bring me Apocalypse with house rule to play it without card, as a full wargame and not a CCG.

In short, don't know if GW turned a corner. I surely have.

I've always thought people are way too keen to give GW the benefit of doubt, then act all surprised when they turn around and do something that goes counter to the narrative in fans' heads.

Nu gw has always been at core old game. Rules took downhill and prices still mess. Only thing that changed was pr. That went to excelent. They might be able to sell even ice at antarktis

The rules are the best they've been in a long time. The model turnaround is very impressive and keeps the excitement rolling.

GW have excellent engagement with thr community and it's actually cheaper than to collect certain armies than it was a few years ago.

The new Astartes codex has renewed excitement with the faction and has breathed new life into Primaris and Classic Marines alike.

The only complaints I can make would involve price increases but honestly I don't care that much. If I was collecting a whole new FW army (as I've don't before) I might be more upset.

 Stormonu wrote:

Prices for new sets noticeably increase with each iteration, and now old kit prices are being pushed up in cost. Forgeworld prices for non-UK took a leap. GW Rules writing remains sloppy. Rulesets (such a Necromunda, Kill Team and now the Marine Codexes) are being dole out in DLC-type blocs. GW has been doubling down on Primaris releases, halting model releases for oldMarine kits. Xenos releases - especially for “new” faction Ynarri have slowed beyond a crawl in favor of Imperium vs. Chaos.

Costs will always increase. It's what they do with it that matters.

1) Increased communication
2) Regular reveals
3) Support for specialty games
4) Rollout of other types of games (Warcry, Underworlds, standalone board games)
5) Regular FAQs with designer insight
6) Beta rules
7) Tournament support
8) Podcasts
9) Live streams
10) Surveys with real results
11) Give-aways
12) R&D for things like Contrast
13) Better kits (though more mono-pose in some places)
14) Limited external testing

 Cybtroll wrote:
I felt that quite clearly with the last Space Marine Codex.
I play from a very long time, and after a decade of almost no purchase I bought a full Alpha Legion army at the beginning of 8th.
The last releases for Chaos and Marine (and previously the pseudo-formation in Vigilus) kind of kill my enthusiasm for 8th.

I think that the near future will bring me Apocalypse with house rule to play it without card, as a full wargame and not a CCG.

In short, don't know if GW turned a corner. I surely have.

This plus the OP.

GW played a gotcha on me too.

The way they introduced Restartes alienated much of their core support.
Making all marines 2 wnds and just releasing better models would have been the way to go imho.

Yeah, catch up on the Tyranid fleet off the edge of the Milky Way -
make new heroes, introduce new factions this way.

Get a new Abaddon this way.
The Tyranids will betray the Chaos and send them scurrying,
with Chaos weakening Tyranids just enough for new heroes to push them back...

But, GW decided to piss on everyone over 30 instead.
As if they never learned from Fantasy...

Just running roughshod over people's hardcore hobby - not at all cool.
So, I too have turned a corner with GW.

I looked forward to 8th.
Then had hopes for 9th.
Now, forget about it.

I expect the worst.
The Repuslor is repulsive, the new units
(jump pack dudes who hover with heavy weapons, "Aggressors" - srsly? )
... silly for anyone over 8,
contrast paints... meh.

Just meh.

Let's address each of your concerns one by one shall we?

Prices for new sets noticeably increase with each iteration

we've gotten some new price increases but it's not quite as bad as you say. And TBH with the upcoming brexit concerns we proably should have expected a price hike. most of the price hikes where GW tweeking the price of old things up to make them less of a absolute steal compared to the newer stuff then they where, it's unfortunate but expected.

Forgeworld prices for non-UK took a leap

that does suck but it's inevitable I suspect.

GW Rules writing remains sloppy

won't argue there although most gaming rules sets have the odd hole in them.

Rulesets (such a Necromunda, Kill Team and now the Marine Codexes) are being dole out in DLC-type blocs

god people who make this complain have no idea how young and ignorant they sound.. First of all gaming expansions predates the concept of DLC for video games by decades. EVERY table top game gets supplements. thats just how it works. and they got supplements well before DLC was a thing. The suppelements guys are proper expansions for the game, adding new rules and things they didn't have room for in the core book well expanding the game. These are not Horse Armor, nor is it the ME3 from the ashes DLC.

GW has been doubling down on Primaris releases, halting model releases for oldMarine kits.

that's hardly a bad thing, the old marine line was completed to the point of bloation. we do not need new kits for old marines.

Xenos releases - especially for “new” faction Ynarri have slowed beyond a crawl in favor of Imperium vs. Chaos.

prior to 8th edition most chaos models where old eneugh to drink. some serious attention to chaos was needed.

we've gotten some new price increases but it's not quite as bad as you say. And TBH with the upcoming brexit concerns we proably should have expected a price hike. most of the price hikes where GW tweeking the price of old things up to make them less of a absolute steal compared to the newer stuff then they where, it's unfortunate but expected.

That royaly sucks for armies that GW didn't give new stuff with their codex though. I get the old marines phase out, it isn't nice for people who bought the models, specialy if they just bought them. But at least there is the new primaris stuff. It is a totaly different thing, when your options are priced hiked old kits or finecast stuff that breaks apart in to dust

god people who make this complain have no idea how young and ignorant they sound.. First of all gaming expansions predates the concept of DLC for video games by decades. EVERY table top game gets supplements. thats just how it works. and they got supplements well before DLC was a thing. The suppelements guys are proper expansions for the game, adding new rules and things they didn't have room for in the core book well expanding the game. These are not Horse Armor, nor is it the ME3 from the ashes DLC.

But GW doesn't really make supplements. They cut crucial parts of the codex, like they did with chaos or now with marines, and make people buy two books instead of one. On top of it the supplements aren't equal, the WS have 1 old unit from index and one new footslogging khan and a few relics. Ultramarines get the same stuff, and more relics, more succesor rules and more characters. But the books cost the same.

Space Marines have always been about peurile wish-fulfilment.

Absolutely nothing has changed in that regard, except your perspective.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Space Marines have always been about peurile wish-fulfilment.

Absolutely nothing has changed in that regard, except your perspective.

Have they though?

Also exe,watch it or you turn into an ironwarrior

GW as a company never changed their spots. They simply got an active PR team to make it feel and look better.

They straight out lied about all the positive changes they were making to the game removing bloat.

The prices they feel they can get away with. They just are more at ease now than they were at 8ths launch. They won't ever change to be great. The idea of new GW was always a dream people wanted to believe but was wrong.

The only thing they really do great, is most of the models I still very much enjoy, not the prices, or the sloppy writing, the models themselves. As well they have one of the best customer services I've ever dealt with.

They didn't turn a corner, they never changed, they just put on a new suit and put on a good show. The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist. I'm not saying GW is the devil, I'm just saying they did make people think they were new, when they really aren't and hid in plain sight.

Basically what angryangel is trying to say, a parfumed turd is still a turd.

But GW doesn't really make supplements. They cut crucial parts of the codex, like they did with chaos or now with marines, and make people buy two books instead of one

what exactly did they cut from Chaos? I play chaos and I'm not seeing it.
and yeah they did cut various chars from the codex, but I suspect they did it because codex space marines had grown to big, I'd rather we get supplements then see things get squatted myself.

On top of it the supplements aren't equal, the WS have 1 old unit from index and one new footslogging khan and a few relics. Ultramarines get the same stuff, and more relics, more succesor rules and more characters

Umm no thats completely wrong, I'll grant that Ultramarines got more characters then white Scars did (but short of releasing a massive wave of new WS plastic characters that was inevitable) but everything else.. utterly wrong/

Let's count down everything you claim shall we?

More Relics:
White Scars:7 relics and 8 special issue wargear
Ultramarines: 7 relics and 8 special issue wargear.

More sucessor Rules:
both have the same sucessor rules. So not sure what you're saying here. unless you're refering to the page of sucessor chapter paint schemes in the ultramarines book, which is easily explained. those chapters wheren't shown in codex space marines. so they wanted to show them in the Ultramarines supplement. meanwhile all the white scars sucessors are shown in the actual codex. (Ultramarines do account for 60% of the chapters out there)

Anyway white scars and ultramarines both have the same number of warlord traits, psykic powers etc.

I think this is less about GW "turning a corner" and more about some people not liking what GW is selling. Which is fine, but the company clearly has a different strategy than it did, say, five years ago, and the hobby is in much healthier shape than it's ever been.

Five years ago, GW was keeping WFB on life support, and then gutted it for AOS, which was a perfectly good half of a ruleset. 40k was an almost unplayable mess. The Hobbit miniature game was a shell of the LOTR days, and specialist games were dead.

Now? AOS is vibrant, with new factions and points/army books/tournaments that it should have gotten in the first place. 40k has the best rules it's ever had, albeit with model support overwhelmingly imperium focused. GW is actively selling necromunda, AT, bloodbowl, and Aeronautica imperialias, Within the core games, there is a broad range of sub games (apocalypse, warcry, underworlds, kill team). Middle Earth SBG is getting support.

Prices still suck, but the stuff we're buying.

The main complaint that I would agree with is that GW seems to love releasing rules in supplements, which gets ludicrously expensive if you try to keep up. Of course, with the realities of the modern era, codices are like, semi necessary. Battlescribe has virtually all of the information required, and the rest is widely available. I'm convinced that GW switched to this model of codices because they realized that only the die hards were buying them anyway.

If GW hasn't done enough to earn your business, don't buy from them. They're a profit seeking enterprise, so they charge what they think they can get. I buy very few of GW's new releases, although I have bought big on eBay's bigger sales. Compared to the past, GW is actually making products I want and think I will use.

 Stormonu wrote:
Does anyone else feel like GW is “falling back” into old, bad habits and will it affect your own purchases or play habits?

Their "habits":
I'm a cynic. I was never of the opinion that they'd changed. They merely added a fresh layer of PR to things. A lot of you though bought it though....

Buying/Prices:
When they make models I'm not interested in? I just don't buy them.
I'm not spending $ on miniatures that I don't like the look of.
I also don't spend $ replacing existing models just because there's a newer version of the same. I might buy the new, but just being new isn't enough of a reason. For ex: I own 2500 pts worth of Sisters of Battle. It's entirely likely that I won't buy much of the upcoming release.

When they raise prices on things I might consider to a point I'm not willing to pay? I don't buy them. If I really want that item though? Then I'll look for used pieces. Someone will sell/trade one off at a price I'm willing to pay. Or maybe there's a re-caster out there who wants my $.... Now if it's a unit that I want because of rules (opposed to the exact sculpt)? Then I'll convert/scratch build it. Or maybe I already own something that will work just fine as a proxy?

I don't buy into their sub-games. Kill Team, Titanticus, Blackstone, War Cry, the up coming Areonatica.... Those are $ sinks that are on a clock. I'm not opposed to playing them though if someones got the rules & extra pieces to share. But I'm not investing.

Play:
GWs rules have always been.... questionable. Some editions better/worse than others. I am not afraid to walk away from an edition if I find its rules/playstyle not to my taste. I'm close to doing that with 8e. I don't like the CP system, I dislike endless errata, & I view the terrain and vehicle rules to be targeted to simpletons.
And so after a year? I've only pulled two forces out of storage: My SW &, because of how armies can be built, my box full of Dreadnaughts. 3 if you want to count my Khorne Demons - but I really pulled them out for AoS....
So right now my 40k gaming is about 1 game every 3 weeks or so.

The complaint earlier about DLC style release was aimed at Specialist games and is extremely accurate. As mentioned by some others, it's not about supplements, it's about shorting the initial release and dragging a "full game" release out over a year or more.

Necromunda launched with no real proper campaign, no rules for really playing on 3D tables (instead of the boardgame included in the box), and two gangs which could only take weapon options for the scant number of weapons in the initial gang boxes. In addition only two gangs were released, with the others coming months, and many months later. Several months after each release, Forgeworld released additional weapon packs (of extremely common weapons in Necromunda - the types available to all gangs since the very first rendition of the game)...only then magically allowing the previous plastic gangs to take them (sure hope you didn't model up your gangs before getting access to the full armory!)

Rules were poorly written (easily the worst writing I've ever seen in a GW product, let alone...any gaming product). It became worse as the extra releases came out with various books including contradicting information, incorrect stats...even some random Warhammer 40K stats shoe-horned into a game which doesn't use Warhammer 40K weapon profiles.

People anxious to play their most beloved gangs from the original game ended up waiting up to 6-8 months to finally get a basic plastic starter box because GW wanted to string out release. Releasing the basic six gangs at the game's initial release would have not stressed their logistics or finances at all.

Instead of getting a proper rulebook with all the gangs and rules for the "real" way to play Necromunda, people ended up buying 5-6 books just to have all the rules for their stuff. That's asinine. They eventually came around to releasing two big hardbound books a year or so after release - the way the game should have been released originally. Compare it to the original boxed Necromunda game...all the rules, all the gangs, all the weapons, the full campaign, and hell a solid chunk of 3D actual terrain in the box itself. An actual complete starting game. Supplements were just that - supplements, not an episodic "buy the rest of the rules every couples months".

This game, of all of them, suffered the most from GW's pedantic "it's not on the sprue, you can't have it!" nonsense. The game died pretty quick in our group, and a lot of long-time die-hard Necromunda players simply didn't even bother. Sure, it probably made GW a few more bucks, but this kind of stupid release policy/style is how you lose customers. The game may be in an okay state now, and might be so in the future - but they royally fethed up the good will with a lot of long time Necromunda fans.

GW is doing well and they should be happy, but in my personal opinion - yes they've turned full profit-monster, and have driven me away from future purchases. When your sales methods interfere with releasing an actual quality product, I lose interest. I'm a massively passionate wargamer, but I don't play games when it comes to buying a product. Sell a good product or don't. Don't screw around and pull this nonsense. Just sell the damn product; a complete, finished product.

For myself, I’m unwilling to pay for constantly evolving rules about twice a year (Chapter Approved and another Supplement). Were it a reasonable subscription to stay up to date on rules, I’d be down. I’d subscribe to a system for say, $30 or so dollars a year (CAD) that kept me up to date with the system. But rulebook plus codex(es) plus CA each year plus other supplements? The rulebook, index, and codex I’ve purchased since the start of 8th ($200 CAD?) are essentially outdated already, and we’re still in the same edition!

I’m glad for updates and points adjustments... but that’s fixing the materials I’ve already bought, and charging me for it. I feel ripped off by that. There’s an ethics issue for me. Chaos had their codex rereleased... to scoop more sales. Done right before the SM codex is getting revamped with expansion books... and no doubt Chaos SM are going to be milked (again) in the same fashion.

I can’t justify spending money on GW rules. And with rules again in constant flux, I get wallet paralysis when I think about buying more units for 40k.

Kill Team? I’m buying all sorts, new and used, to make new Kill Teams. I’m considering buying some more Marines and Guard to specifically make Kill Teams with. But who knows? Next year guardsmen may be 8 points each... Scions could lose deep strike. Leman Russ May drop to 10 wounds... and I’d have to pay $50 to buy the rules update!

For me, 40k has returned to the state I left in 7th. Too much flash, too much cash, and not enough substance or satisfaction. When things settle down again, my interest will return.

7th Edition Imploded under rules bloat.

8th Edition killed the rules bloat with super streamlined one size fits all indexes.

Now everyone has a codex.
Also we have white dwarf rules.
And FAQs.
Also some event suppliments,with more rules.
Now we have expansion books so you can literally Space Marine, your Space Marines with your Space Marine Space Marine Space Marine Rules. [Index, Codex, Viglius, SM Mk2, White Dwaf Blood Ravens, New Codex Suppliments. - That's Six sources for SM rules guys! Not counting FAQs.]

I for one, am super concerned. The train has no sign of breaks. We're releasing more factions, we're releasing more books, more suppliments - Hey wait, I forgot your Space Marines also have two, soon to be three Chapter Approveds too! - and more add ons.

It's not at Crisis point yet, but it's getting there. I'm going to the LGT Shortly, and I have no idea how the hell I'm supposed to have memorised everyone else's FAQ so when someone tells me they can do some broken thing I have to be able to point out that no, they can't.

It's definitely getting to the point where rules bloat is becoming a problem, and army construction at this point almost requires taking an actual class to understand and know all the options and how keywords interact and what you can or cannot take together.

Naming conventions aren't helping, keeping intercessors apart from inceptors and impulsors and invictors and incursors is getting...more than a wee bit ridiculous, and having to deal with terms like "Drukhari" or "Astra Militarum" outside of a role playing session is nauseating.

 Vaktathi wrote:
It's definitely getting to the point where rules bloat is becoming a problem, and army construction at this point almost requires taking an actual class to understand and know all the options and how keywords interact and what you can or cannot take together.

Naming conventions aren't helping, keeping intercessors apart from inceptors and impulsors and invictors and incursors is getting...more than a wee bit ridiculous, and having to deal with terms like "Drukhari" or "Astra Militarum" outside of a role playing session is nauseating.

Rules bloat is allready a problem.
106 documments is too many documents.

A note on price increases - GW is largely getting a pass because most UK/Europe based miniature companies are also rasing their prices. Between the unknowns of Brexit and the prolonged trade war between the US and China, a lot of these companies are looking at a higher cost of production.

Its not like GW is raising the prices on a whim, its an industry wide shift caused by the current political climate.

I'm still a huge fan of the speed in which GW is responding to its fan base. They've made a controversial yet interesting decision to finally assign the Marines faction a role as the 'swiss army knife' faction and away from being the 'medium stat line' faction

It does feel like GW is making mistakes almost as fast as they make good decisions and fix previous mistakes, but that's kind of what the fan base has asked for. In Video Games to Board Games, internet-connected players are largely demanding a fail-fast environment and shirking slower moving systems. We may be seeing the twilight of the Age of the Grognard.

Considering their earnings, no.

Has GW turned another leaf ?
If by leaf you mean they are doing whatever cutthroat underhanded thing they can get away with to make money from their loyal mom and dad client base than yes.

But, they are a company that makes models. The models are very nice and I enjoy owning and painting them. As long as grandparents and parents will fork out 100's of £ for their kids plastic soldiers at x mas and birthdays this ain't changing..

My gripe is that the way they handle ranges and releases is a bit insane...now. What I mean here they seem to be putting in a lot of time effot and resources into these side show "specialist games" (Warcry, titanicus, nighthaunts necromunda etc.).

They keep on churning out these various niche kits, lets not forget how expensive injection molds are..."allegedly". So while they are releasing some warcry or whatever...(what even is that..?) there are large swathes of40k that are lingering around with crappy finecast and incomplete ranges...

I thought about buying an emperors champion to paint and slowly dip my toes into a templars army, but as soon as I read that's its resin I just didn't bother looking at any more of their models. I know so many people that wont invest into flayed one's, aspects or many other kits units because they are failcast. Which is a big big big shame..
So my question is, if WHFB wasn't profitable, how is using resource and investment into making injection mold kits for necromunda or warcry or titnicus going to making them money over 40k that kits are sitting at finecast??
They seem to have have so many different systems to juggle the release schedule now is a mess and rather then release things well, they do it haphazardly over many months and it seems to be really annoying to the player base because:

A) the players feel the release for their specialist game is being done haphazard without a real plan, and its very slow moving to get the rules complete. E.G Elbows example with necromunda

B) Players who play exclusively 40k(which is good half if not more of the player/customer base) see it as a waste of time and resource.

Now I have a feeling this is due to the feedback they got about not doing enough specialist games. But in typical corporate fashion they seemed to have gone in complete overdrive to detriment of everything else. But I guess the sales must be there if its worth chasing the release schedule..
The rules one is an obvious one. Until we can get some sort of rolling ruleset PDF that's updated on regular basis (maybe some sort of subscription service as other have suggested) I don't think GW will change. They can charge £4.50 less for a PDF rather than a physical book, they will keep on making those books.

This is the biggest shame of all: I don't feel comfortable trying to encourage my friends to get into the hobby with the knowledge the models GW charge for are extortionate, and the books they might need to use those models are basically inaccurate from launch, require an errata and might even become obsolete 2 months later.. I know what GW is and I can deal with it. But I wont encourage anyone to play their games due to their business practices

To summarise, its just same gak different days.

 Argive wrote:
Has GW turned another leaf ?
If by leaf you mean they are doing whatever cutthroat underhanded thing they can get away with to make money from their loyal mom and dad client base than yes.

But, they are a company that makes models. The models are very nice and I enjoy owning and painting them. As long as grandparents and parents will fork out 100's of £ for their kids plastic soldiers at x mas and birthdays this ain't changing..

My gripe is that the way they handle ranges and releases is a bit insane...now. What I mean here they seem to be putting in a lot of time effot and resources into these side show "specialist games" (Warcry, titanicus, nighthaunts necromunda etc.).

They keep on churning out these various niche kits, lets not forget how expensive injection molds are..."allegedly". So while they are releasing some warcry or whatever...(what even is that..?) there are large swathes of40k that are lingering around with crappy finecast and incomplete ranges...

I thought about buying an emperors champion to paint and slowly dip my toes into a templars army, but as soon as I read that's its resin I just didn't bother looking at any more of their models. I know so many people that wont invest into flayed one's, aspects or many other kits units because they are failcast. Which is a big big big shame..
So my question is, if WHFB wasn't profitable, how is using resource and investment into making injection mold kits for necromunda or warcry or titnicus going to making them money over 40k that kits are sitting at finecast??
They seem to have have so many different systems to juggle the release schedule now is a mess and rather then release things well, they do it haphazardly over many months and it seems to be really annoying to the player base because:

A) the players feel the release for their specialist game is being done haphazard without a real plan, and its very slow moving to get the rules complete. E.G Elbows example with necromunda

B) Players who play exclusively 40k(which is good half if not more of the player/customer base) see it as a waste of time and resource.

Now I have a feeling this is due to the feedback they got about not doing enough specialist games. But in typical corporate fashion they seemed to have gone in complete overdrive to detriment of everything else. But I guess the sales must be there if its worth chasing the release schedule..
The rules one is an obvious one. Until we can get some sort of rolling ruleset PDF that's updated on regular basis (maybe some sort of subscription service as other have suggested) I don't think GW will change. They can charge £4.50 less for a PDF rather than a physical book, they will keep on making those books.

This is the biggest shame of all: I don't feel comfortable trying to encourage my friends to get into the hobby with the knowledge the models GW charge for are extortionate, and the books they might need to use those models are basically inaccurate from launch, require an errata and might even become obsolete 2 months later.. I know what GW is and I can deal with it. But I wont encourage anyone to play their games due to their business practices

To summarise, its just same gak different days.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these side releases are just to maintain IP in the eyes of the law

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Space Marines have always been about peurile wish-fulfilment.

Absolutely nothing has changed in that regard, except your perspective.

Have they though?

Also exe,watch it or you turn into an ironwarrior

Smelling of dirt and entitlement?

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Has GW turned another leaf ?
If by leaf you mean they are doing whatever cutthroat underhanded thing they can get away with to make money from their loyal mom and dad client base than yes.

But, they are a company that makes models. The models are very nice and I enjoy owning and painting them. As long as grandparents and parents will fork out 100's of £ for their kids plastic soldiers at x mas and birthdays this ain't changing..

My gripe is that the way they handle ranges and releases is a bit insane...now. What I mean here they seem to be putting in a lot of time effot and resources into these side show "specialist games" (Warcry, titanicus, nighthaunts necromunda etc.).

They keep on churning out these various niche kits, lets not forget how expensive injection molds are..."allegedly". So while they are releasing some warcry or whatever...(what even is that..?) there are large swathes of40k that are lingering around with crappy finecast and incomplete ranges...

I thought about buying an emperors champion to paint and slowly dip my toes into a templars army, but as soon as I read that's its resin I just didn't bother looking at any more of their models. I know so many people that wont invest into flayed one's, aspects or many other kits units because they are failcast. Which is a big big big shame..
So my question is, if WHFB wasn't profitable, how is using resource and investment into making injection mold kits for necromunda or warcry or titnicus going to making them money over 40k that kits are sitting at finecast??
They seem to have have so many different systems to juggle the release schedule now is a mess and rather then release things well, they do it haphazardly over many months and it seems to be really annoying to the player base because:

A) the players feel the release for their specialist game is being done haphazard without a real plan, and its very slow moving to get the rules complete. E.G Elbows example with necromunda

B) Players who play exclusively 40k(which is good half if not more of the player/customer base) see it as a waste of time and resource.

Now I have a feeling this is due to the feedback they got about not doing enough specialist games. But in typical corporate fashion they seemed to have gone in complete overdrive to detriment of everything else. But I guess the sales must be there if its worth chasing the release schedule..
The rules one is an obvious one. Until we can get some sort of rolling ruleset PDF that's updated on regular basis (maybe some sort of subscription service as other have suggested) I don't think GW will change. They can charge £4.50 less for a PDF rather than a physical book, they will keep on making those books.

This is the biggest shame of all: I don't feel comfortable trying to encourage my friends to get into the hobby with the knowledge the models GW charge for are extortionate, and the books they might need to use those models are basically inaccurate from launch, require an errata and might even become obsolete 2 months later.. I know what GW is and I can deal with it. But I wont encourage anyone to play their games due to their business practices

To summarise, its just same gak different days.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these side releases are just to maintain IP in the eyes of the law

That combined with spitballing. put out some minis for specialsit games, protect their IP, and if some are giant hits they can focus on it. GW is a big eneugh company and 40k and AOS are both big eneugh and popular eneugh IPs that they absolutely should be doing some spitballing to see if they can find new games in their IPs that might catch on big

So a few comments

Regarding specialist games:

They aren't on a limited timeline because they all come with 40k rules in the box. Blackstone Fortress may come to an end eventually, but Taddeus the Purifier and Pious Vorne will be a part of my Sisters army forever.

I'm buying ratlings for my guard because I want Rein and Raus to have some company.

Kill Team needs to get a bit better at this- the Rogue Trader Box was good; Kellermorph was awesome. I'm hoping they use kill team as a vehicle to introduce new Drukari characters and Aspects in plastic. It would have been the perfect vehicle.

They could also do that with Inquisition. Anyway, my point is that specialist games make 40k better, not worse.

Next, releasing games a bit a time:

In the beginning, I didn't like this either- it does drive prices of a full ruleset higher. It actually prevented me from buying Necromunda at release, because I knew I'd be able to get a full book later. However, I've begun to see things a little bit differently.

For some folks, paying $100 per month for three months is easier than getting the same stuff for a single payment of $250. Some people's lives don't really allow them to ever accumulate large lump sums, but they can handle paying in installments.

The 150$ Necrobox was absolutely an incomplete rule set at release, but a lot of people could afford it, and they got everything they needed to start playing on day one.

Conversely, if the whole game had been available on day 1, the box would have cost $230-250 and you would have had to wait the extra year for it to be released.

Even now that the full books are out, you still need the rules ($70), Gangs of the Underhive ($60) and a gang ($50), which is STILL $30 more than the box, and it comes with two gangs, not one.

Could I afford to buy two Kill Team books at $50 each and a commanders set for $70 over a period of 8 months? Yep.

Would I have been able to buy a single book that included all three sets for say $120... Honestly, maybe not- even thought it would have saved me $50 in the long run. May sound stupid, but honestly, a lump sum like that has more value elsewhere whereas a $50 drop in the bucket every now and again was doable.

Other people will of course, have different experiences and opinions, but that's my take on it.