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Here is the situation; we are playing maelstrom and in my turn I draw "Blood and Guts" which says - Score 1 victory point if an enemy unit was destroyed during the fight phase of this turn... I fail to score it in my turn and during my opponents turn they destroy one of my vehicles in their fight phase. I blow it up and the mortal wounds kills the unit attacking my vehicle. My question is does that count for Blood and Guts? Does a kill caused by an explosion in the fight phase count as a kill in the fight phase?

 KingGarland wrote:
Here is the situation; we are playing maelstrom and in my turn I draw "Blood and Guts" which says - Score 1 victory point if an enemy unit was destroyed during the fight phase of this turn... I fail to score it in my turn and during my opponents turn they destroy one of my vehicles in their fight phase. I blow it up and the mortal wounds kills the unit attacking my vehicle. My question is does that count for Blood and Guts? Does a kill caused by an explosion in the fight phase count as a kill in the fight phase?

BRB, Page 226 wrote:At the end of every turn (yours and the enemy’s), you must check to see if you have achieved any of your active Tactical Objectives...

Yes, you have met the cards criteria ("An enemy unit was destroyed during the fight phase of this turn", how it was destroyed is irrelevant), thus achive the Tactical Objective.

Agreed. It just says that a unit had to be destroyed, and that happened.

Just make sure the card doesn't say "your fight phase" or something similar.

nekooni wrote:
Just make sure the card doesn't say "your fight phase" or something similar.

If they're saying it correctly/word for word, it kind of does The other player's turn is still part of the battle round, but it's not part of this turn.

Breton wrote:

nekooni wrote:
Just make sure the card doesn't say "your fight phase" or something similar.

If they're saying it correctly/word for word, it kind of does The other player's turn is still part of the battle round, but it's not part of this turn.

Which is why I'm pointing out that the specific wording needs to be checked.

As long as the card remains in play, every turn is "this turn".

 flandarz wrote:
As long as the card remains in play, every turn is "this turn".

Lots of cards remain in play when they're unacheivable. This turn is this turn. Its up to you to discard it.

Edit: Or RAI/House Rule it. Assuming the quotations/representations of the card wording have been correct.

Breton wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
As long as the card remains in play, every turn is "this turn".

Lots of cards remain in play when they're unacheivable. This turn is this turn. Its up to you to discard it.

Edit: Or RAI/House Rule it. Assuming the quotations/representations of the card wording have been correct.

Incorrect. You can score Maelstrom cards whenever they say you can. The Defend Objective X cards are a good example of this. You can get the various "kill thing" objectives in either turn. There's no restriction in the rules to only being able to score Maelstrom cards during your own turn. If you have them in hand you check to see if you completed them every turn.

Are you seriously suggesting "this turn" refers to the specific turn the card was drawn? Because that isn't supported by any parsing of the actual rule

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting "this turn" refers to the specific turn the card was drawn? Because that isn't supported by any parsing of the actual rule

Agreed. This turn refers to whatever turn it is currently. It isn't locked to the turn you drew it.

The conditions if you score an objective card is checked at the end of every players turn. If the card says this turn it is the current turn that just ended. Its not the turn where the card was drawn, unless the card says so.

I would agree that within the context of the rules 'this turn' is the turn in which you are attempting to score the objective.

As for the suggestion that this (this turn = turn it's drawn, not the active turn) isn't supported by any parsing of the actual rule; someone has been interprettted as having parsed it in such such a manner which would indicate that this untrue.

The pertinent point is can it correctly be parsed in such a manner, which I beleive is no.

However I do have a sense of deja-vu when it comes to grammatical matters...

Breton wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
As long as the card remains in play, every turn is "this turn".

Lots of cards remain in play when they're unacheivable. This turn is this turn. Its up to you to discard it.

Edit: Or RAI/House Rule it. Assuming the quotations/representations of the card wording have been correct.

As others have pointed out, "this turn" always refers to the current turn. That's just how English works.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting "this turn" refers to the specific turn the card was drawn? Because that isn't supported by any parsing of the actual rule

No, its supported by "parsing" the words "this turn".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flandarz wrote:

Breton wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
As long as the card remains in play, every turn is "this turn".

Lots of cards remain in play when they're unacheivable. This turn is this turn. Its up to you to discard it.

Edit: Or RAI/House Rule it. Assuming the quotations/representations of the card wording have been correct.

As others have pointed out, "this turn" always refers to the current turn. That's just how English works.

Yes, the current turn. Not the turn AFTER the current turn. The example in the original had the turn it was drawn end, and the scoring occur in the NEXT turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:
The conditions if you score an objective card is checked at the end of every players turn. If the card says this turn it is the current turn that just ended. Its not the turn where the card was drawn, unless the card says so.

51 Overwhelming Firepower says "Shooting Phase of your turn"
52 Blood And Guts says "this turn"
53 No Prisoners says during "your turn".
54 Area Denial says "Shooting Phase of your turn"
55 Psychological Warfare "this turn"
56 Master The Warp "This Turn"


Different wording can/should be checked for different meaning. Difficulty, and Risk/Reward Value can come from the complexity of the task - kill an entire unit - or from the time constraints of doing something simpler on a mandated schedule - Manifest or Deny a power on THIS TURN.

You know what happens when you get to the turn after the current turn? It becomes "this turn".

 flandarz wrote:
You know what happens when you get to the turn after the current turn? It becomes "this turn".

You know what happens when you have to pay your bills on this day, and then the next day comes before you do? You're too late to pay your bills on this day.

I've already said I don't care if you house rule or RAI it. Everyone playing by the same rules is generally fair. There are some I'd house rule as well. I'd add the "Or Previous turn" condition from 61 Kingslayer to 65 Big Game Hunter. I'd let people redraw/regenerate objectives they never had a chance to fulfill because not-their-choice - i.e. Drawing Witch Hunter vs a Black Templar (or other army that happened to chose not to take a psyker - thus outside the player's control, as they don't build their opponent's list) army - No 10,000 year old Heretic Space Marine Lord is going to tell Kharn it's imperative he kill the Black Templar Librarian because they'd know full well BT don't have them. But that's not how it's written.

Sorry Breton you're just simply wrong.

You're adding extra stuff to the rules that aren't there. It doesn't say "the turn this card is drawn". It says "this turn". As was stated above, you check to see if you have completed any of your cards at the end of every turn. Every turn you check is "this turn". You're the one house-ruling it. As you said, if that's what you and your opponents agree to, that's fine.

As for the "bill" analogy, it's way off base. If my water bill literally said "pay on this day" instead of "pay on September 25th", then I could pay any day I feel like and the company would have no legal footing to levee late fees against me. So, if the card said "if you destroy a unit on the turn this card is drawn" you would be correct. But it doesn't. House-rule as you desire, but myself and seemingly everyone else involved in the thread will play it RAW.

Breton wrote:


You know what happens when you have to pay your bills on this day, and then the next day comes before you do? You're too late to pay your bills on this day.

If the bill says i have to pay it on this day i am never late. Because it is always this day. Unfortunately bills have a certain date, and if that date passes i am to late to pay it.

This turn on an objective card always refers to the current turn, its either mine, or the opponents turn.

 flandarz wrote:
You're adding extra stuff to the rules that aren't there. It doesn't say "the turn this card is drawn". It says "this turn". As was stated above, you check to see if you have completed any of your cards at the end of every turn. Every turn you check is "this turn".

Citation required from the man who's complaining about "adding words".

You're the one house-ruling it.

I'm not doing anything with it, other than pointing out exactly what it says, that different cards/rules say different things for their expected timings/conditions, and what that means by RAW.

As you said, if that's what you and your opponents agree to, that's fine.

As for the "bill" analogy, it's way off base. If my water bill literally said "pay on this day" instead of "pay on September 25th", then I could pay any day I feel like and the company would have no legal footing to levee late fees against me. So, if the card said "if you destroy a unit on the turn this card is drawn" you would be correct. But it doesn't. House-rule as you desire, but myself and seemingly everyone else involved in the thread will play it RAW.

Yes, my analogy is way off base, because every day is this day. This doesn't at all refer to a specific iteration of a thing. Any turn can be "This turn" but "this turn" isn't any turn.

Lets have an experiment. Give me your phone number. If I call you this morning, you pay me $1,000. If I call you This Afternoon you don't pay me $1,000. How many mornings will you pay me $1,000 for? Just the one, probably, but do I get to wait until I need money this morning to do it?

The rules for Tactical Objectives literally tell you to check at the end of each turn.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The rules for Tactical Objectives literally tell you to check at the end of each turn.

I didn't say they didn't. I said this particular objective says "This Turn" for its completion condition. Other objectives say different conditions. Basic English comprehension says this particular objective has a time condition of one turn. You can check it at the end of all the turns you want, but you only have the one turn to meet the time condition.

Breton wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The rules for Tactical Objectives literally tell you to check at the end of each turn.

I didn't say they didn't. I said this particular objective says "This Turn" for its completion condition. Other objectives say different conditions. Basic English comprehension says this particular objective has a time condition of one turn. You can check it at the end of all the turns you want, but you only have the one turn to meet the time condition.

"This turn" is the turn when the objective is checked, not when it is drawn.

Citation provided: Score 1 victory point if an enemy unit was destroyed during the fight phase of this turn...

At the end of the turn, when you check your cards, did you destroy a unit during the Fight Phase? If yes, you score. If not, then you hold the card until it's applicable, or you replace it.

If you had a Tactical Objective that said: "If you call Flandarz this morning, he has to pay you $1000 dollars" then, yes, any morning in which you call me would be "this morning". I wouldn't like it, but I'd accept that, as written, thems the rules. Pretty sure you'd have to "discard" it after use though, as I'm relatively certain that's how Tactical Objectives work once you achieve what it asks of you.

"This turn" is any turn during which you check your Tactical Objectives. Any other interpretation is wrong. Sorry.

Breton wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The conditions if you score an objective card is checked at the end of every players turn. If the card says this turn it is the current turn that just ended. Its not the turn where the card was drawn, unless the card says so.

51 Overwhelming Firepower says "Shooting Phase of your turn"
52 Blood And Guts says "this turn"
53 No Prisoners says during "your turn".
54 Area Denial says "Shooting Phase of your turn"
55 Psychological Warfare "this turn"
56 Master The Warp "This Turn"


Different wording can/should be checked for different meaning. Difficulty, and Risk/Reward Value can come from the complexity of the task - kill an entire unit - or from the time constraints of doing something simpler on a mandated schedule - Manifest or Deny a power on THIS TURN.

That actually supports the argument others are making, not yours. The cards have different timing windows - some are only applicable during your turn, some during "this turn". When you check at the end of a turn any "this turn" objectives you've completed can be scored. Any "your turn" objectives can only be scored during your own turn. That's basic, unambiguous English.

 flandarz wrote:
Citation provided: Score 1 victory point if an enemy unit was destroyed during the fight phase of this turn...

At the end of the turn, when you check your cards, did you destroy a unit during the Fight Phase? If yes, you score. If not, then you hold the card until it's applicable, or you replace it.

I'm not sure you know what a citation is... Your "citation" does not appear on page 331 of the BRB (you see mentioning the source of your quotation or paraphrasing i.e. BRB, and Page Number 331 is a citation) - is it perhaps on another page? Did you perhaps just make that up? Repeating your assertion is not a "citation". Pretending your repetition of your assertion is a citation is dishonest. Page 331 does NOT say EVERY TURN is THIS turn.

If you had a Tactical Objective that said: "If you call Flandarz this morning, he has to pay you $1000 dollars" then, yes, any morning in which you call me would be "this morning". I wouldn't like it, but I'd accept that, as written, thems the rules. Pretty sure you'd have to "discard" it after use though, as I'm relatively certain that's how Tactical Objectives work once you achieve what it asks of you.

"This turn" is any turn during which you check your Tactical Objectives. Any other interpretation is wrong. Sorry.

This turn is a singular turn. This turn isn't any turn, else they wouldn't need the added wording for Kingslayer on Previous Turns. You could just check This Turn, and see the warlord has indeed been destroyed for several turns.

The Capture and Control objectives (1X) and Take and Hold (2X) say at the end of your turn. Storm and Defend say "at the end of two consecutive" - not as singularly specific as "This Turn". Any/Every end of your turn could/would qualify.

This Turn is a singular and specific turn. This morning is a singular and specific morning. This thread is a singular and specific thread. This Turn is NOT That Turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:


That actually supports the argument others are making, not yours. The cards have different timing windows - some are only applicable during your turn, some during "this turn". When you check at the end of a turn any "this turn" objectives you've completed can be scored. Any "your turn" objectives can only be scored during your own turn. That's basic, unambiguous English.

Basic unambiguous English says that turn is this turn? "This Turn" being used to allow scoring on Not-Your-Turn is a potentially valid use of English, but it's far from unambiguous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"This turn" is the turn when the objective is checked, not when it is drawn.

Again, Citation needed. Especially from someone with such a stickler reputation for the RAW, you should actually be providing said RAW. What page will we find the instruction to read This Turn as the turn when the objective is checked?


[size=9]Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:


That actually supports the argument others are making, not yours. The cards have different timing windows - some are only applicable during your turn, some during "this turn". When you check at the end of a turn any "this turn" objectives you've completed can be scored. Any "your turn" objectives can only be scored during your own turn.

For what it's worth, I think you're right about the This (including Opponent) Turn, Your (Not Including Opponent) Turn rationale, and the people arguing every turn is this turn have been playing it the right way, for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately that frequently leads to something wrong for the wrong reasons. There's some discipline in arguing this sort of thing - being able to read just what's there and what isn't, and being able to admit the RAW isn't always right and proving the way you want to play is RAW isn't the ultimate victory, Did you come up with this on your own, or did the This Morning/This Afternoon Timing Window thing tip you off?

Breton wrote:
Again, Citation needed. Especially from someone with such a stickler reputation for the RAW, you should actually be providing said RAW. What page will we find the instruction to read This Turn as the turn when the objective is checked?

It has already been cited, multiple times. Also, the game requres the English Language to function. The game also doesn't give you the instruction for what "roll" means, or that dice are numbered 1-6.

Nothing in the rules tells you to lock the card to the turn you drew it on, so you don’t.

The rules tell you to check each turn/battle Round (depending on the mission) so that’s what you do.

Seems like a thread of “one guy vs consensus” which we get quite often in YMDC.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Breton wrote:
Again, Citation needed. Especially from someone with such a stickler reputation for the RAW, you should actually be providing said RAW. What page will we find the instruction to read This Turn as the turn when the objective is checked?

It has already been cited, multiple times. Also, the game requres the English Language to function. The game also doesn't give you the instruction for what "roll" means, or that dice are numbered 1-6.

No, it hasn't. You've made the claim several times, but neither you, nor anyone else, has quoted the page number and section explicitly stating which way "this turn" is supposed to be read.