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For example, can i use the new SM stratagem transhuman physiology on my BA units ? The keywords match.



However, the new codex SM says :

"Note that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in terms of Organisation and fighting styles. These chapters therefor cannot make use of any of the rules in this section and instead have their own rules in other publications"

But, there is a FAQ entry in the BRB update 1.5 released before the new SM codex, that says :

Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from one codex to target a unit
from another?
A: Yes, so long as the unit the Stratagem is being used on
has the appropriate keywords (note that the Stratagems
in Codex: Chaos Daemons and Codex: Tyranids are specific
exceptions to this, as discussed in the relevant FAQs
and Errata).

FAQs still overrides codex, even if its older ?

As per the FAQ, you can until the FAQ says otherwise.

 p5freak wrote:
For example, can i use the new SM stratagem transhuman physiology on my BA units ? The keywords match.

Spoiler:

However, the new codex SM says :

"Note that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in terms of Organisation and fighting styles. These chapters therefor cannot make use of any of the rules in this section and instead have their own rules in other publications"

But, there is a FAQ entry in the BRB update 1.5 released before the new SM codex, that says :

Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from one codex to target a unit
from another?
A: Yes, so long as the unit the Stratagem is being used on
has the appropriate keywords (note that the Stratagems
in Codex: Chaos Daemons and Codex: Tyranids are specific
exceptions to this, as discussed in the relevant FAQs
and Errata).

FAQs still overrides codex, even if its older ?

The Blood Angels aren't making use of it. Your Codex Space Marine Chapter is making use of it on your Blood Angels.

I’d say yes. However I think that the route to conclusive proving this is not quite as simple as has been presented.

Codex: SM has the restrictions at the start of the section “Legacy of the Primarches”, this sections includes the Stratagems.
The 1.5 FAQ:

Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from one codex to target a unit from another?
A: Yes, so long as the unit the Stratagem is being used on has the appropriate keywords (note that the Stratagems in Codex: Chaos Daemons and Codex: Tyranids are specific exceptions to this, as discussed in the relevant FAQs and Errata).
For example, you can use the Tide of Traitors Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Space Marines on a unit of Cultists from a Death Guard Detachment (from Codex: Death Guard) if your army has both an Alpha Legion Detachment and a Death Guard Detachment in a single Battle-forged army.
Also note that the only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction.

This could mean that the specific (i.e. Codex) overrides the general (i.e. rulebook FAQ). So would result in 'no you can’t'.

However Codex: Chaos Space Marines (both original and revised) include a similar restriction at the start of the section The Lost and the Damned, which is the section C:CSM has their Stratagems.

‘Note that the Death Guard and Thousand Sons Legions deviate significantly in terms of organisation and therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section; instead they have bespoke rules and abilities detailed in their own codexes’

The example that is specifically used in the FAQ to demonstrate the inter compatibility of Stratagems has the same kind of restriction applied to them as those as in C:SM. Given the clear parallels between these two scenarios the precedent has clearly been set, and the rules do allow C:SM Stratagems to target Adeptus Astartes units of other armies (e.g. BA, DA...).

Breton wrote:

The Blood Angels aren't making use of it. Your Codex Space Marine Chapter is making use of it on your Blood Angels.

Yes, i need a codex space marine detachment to unlock their stratagems.

Breton wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
For example, can i use the new SM stratagem transhuman physiology on my BA units ? The keywords match.

Spoiler:

However, the new codex SM says :

"Note that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in terms of Organisation and fighting styles. These chapters therefor cannot make use of any of the rules in this section and instead have their own rules in other publications"

But, there is a FAQ entry in the BRB update 1.5 released before the new SM codex, that says :

Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from one codex to target a unit
from another?
A: Yes, so long as the unit the Stratagem is being used on
has the appropriate keywords (note that the Stratagems
in Codex: Chaos Daemons and Codex: Tyranids are specific
exceptions to this, as discussed in the relevant FAQs
and Errata).

FAQs still overrides codex, even if its older ?

The Blood Angels aren't making use of it. Your Codex Space Marine Chapter is making use of it on your Blood Angels.

I think this is the logic I would subscribe to until a time when we might get an FAQ to clarify.

 Stux wrote:

Breton wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
For example, can i use the new SM stratagem transhuman physiology on my BA units ? The keywords match.

Spoiler:

However, the new codex SM says :

"Note that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in terms of Organisation and fighting styles. These chapters therefor cannot make use of any of the rules in this section and instead have their own rules in other publications"

But, there is a FAQ entry in the BRB update 1.5 released before the new SM codex, that says :

Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from one codex to target a unit
from another?
A: Yes, so long as the unit the Stratagem is being used on
has the appropriate keywords (note that the Stratagems
in Codex: Chaos Daemons and Codex: Tyranids are specific
exceptions to this, as discussed in the relevant FAQs
and Errata).

FAQs still overrides codex, even if its older ?

The Blood Angels aren't making use of it. Your Codex Space Marine Chapter is making use of it on your Blood Angels.

I think this is the logic I would subscribe to until a time when we might get an FAQ to clarify.

I think that FAQ already answers the question.
C:CSM has exactly the a restriction (i.e. only the army names are changed) and this is specially used as the example in the FAQ as being able to applying to a different army….

The precedence from C:CSM is really clear, and is should be a lot easier that needing to go down the route of logical arguments…

No, per the codex blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines.

The faq gives general allowance, but the specific stratagems take that away.

1ksons can't be targets for stratagems that target chaos space Marines for example, because per the rulebook they do not qualify as chaos space Marines.

blaktoof wrote:
No, per the codex blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines.

The stratagem doesn't say Space Marines, it says ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
No, per the codex blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines.

The stratagem doesn't say Space Marines, it says ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

Unless there is some new rule in the codex limiting what adeptus astartes are they could target that keyword from another codex current then.

Some of the posts seem to imply the faq answer allows you to use stratagems Willy nilly on whatever, still needs the keywords to be valid and units in the army of various codexes

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
No, per the codex blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines.

The stratagem doesn't say Space Marines, it says ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

Unless there is some new rule in the codex limiting what adeptus astartes are they could target that keyword from another codex current then.

Some of the posts seem to imply the faq answer allows you to use stratagems Willy nilly on whatever, still needs the keywords to be valid and units in the army of various codexes

Where does the codex SM say that blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines ?? Citation please.

This quote doesnt say that :

Note that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in terms of Organisation and fighting styles. These chapters therefor cannot make use of any of the rules in this section and instead have their own rules in other publications.

The space marine summer update says :

SPACE MARINES SUMMER UPDATE

New units have been released for the forces of
the Adeptus Astartes, and their datasheets can
be found in this update. Codex: Space Marines
describes how these units can be taken as part
of a Chapter from that publication, however
they are also available to many other Space
Marine Chapters.

The update shows new units for to blood angels, space wolves, dark angels, and deathwatch. It literally says available to many other space marine chapters.

Stratagems only care about keywords.

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
No, per the codex blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines.

The stratagem doesn't say Space Marines, it says ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

Unless there is some new rule in the codex limiting what adeptus astartes are they could target that keyword from another codex current then.

Some of the posts seem to imply the faq answer allows you to use stratagems Willy nilly on whatever, still needs the keywords to be valid and units in the army of various codexes

As one of those who are proposing the FAQ does answer the issue I am not consciously suggesting the you may use Stratagems cross codex 'as you wish' and must adhere to the usual rules for both unlocking the Stratagem and targeting the Stratagem based on the keywords.

For Clarity

From the 1.5 Rulebook FAQ
Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from one codex to target a unit from another?
A: Yes, so long as the unit the Stratagem is being used on has the appropriate keywords (note that the Stratagems in Codex: Chaos Daemons and Codex: Tyranids are specific exceptions to this, as discussed in the relevant FAQs and Errata).
Thus the General Rule is that 1) Stratagems are unlocked by having an appropriate detachments, and 2) Any unit that is an army that has unlocked a Stratagem may be targeted by it subject to that unit having the required keywords.

Codex: SM has the restriction
‘Note that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in terms of Organisation and fighting styles. These chapters therefor cannot make use of any of the rules in this section and instead have their own rules in other publications’
at the start of the section “Legacy of the Primarches”, this sections includes the Stratagems.
This could mean that the specific (i.e. Codex) overrides the general (i.e. rulebook FAQ). So would result in 'no you can’t' use stratagems from C:SM to target units from the other Space Marine Codexes, even if they are in the same army.

However, if you go back to the 1.5 FAQ, it includes a worked example for us:
For example, you can use the Tide of Traitors Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Space Marines on a unit of Cultists from a Death Guard Detachment (from Codex: Death Guard) if your army has both an Alpha Legion Detachment and a Death Guard Detachment in a single Battle-forged army.
Also note that the only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines (both original and revised) include a similar restriction at the start of the section The Lost and the Damned, which is the section C:CSM has their Stratagems.
‘Note that the Death Guard and Thousand Sons Legions deviate significantly in terms of organisation and therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section; instead they have bespoke rules and abilities detailed in their own codexes’

To me these restrictions are (other than the names included in them) effectively the same. If you took the C:SM restriction and crossed out the loyalist codexes and wrote in the traitor legions you’d end up with the C:CSM restriction and vise-versa.

The example that is specifically used in the FAQ to demonstrate the inter compatibility of Stratagems has the same kind of restriction applied to them as those as in C:SM (in addition to the usual restrictions of ‘unlocking’ the stratagem through an appropriate detachments, and then targeting an appropriate unit based on the keyword requirements of that strategem). Given the clear parallels between these two scenarios the precedent has clearly been set, and the rules do allow C:SM Stratagems to target Adeptus Astartes units of other armies (e.g. BA, DA...).

 p5freak wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
No, per the codex blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines.

The stratagem doesn't say Space Marines, it says ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

Unless there is some new rule in the codex limiting what adeptus astartes are they could target that keyword from another codex current then.

Some of the posts seem to imply the faq answer allows you to use stratagems Willy nilly on whatever, still needs the keywords to be valid and units in the army of various codexes

Where does the codex SM say that blood angels, space wolves, and dark angels are not space Marines ?? Citation please.

This quote doesnt say that :

Note that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in terms of Organisation and fighting styles. These chapters therefor cannot make use of any of the rules in this section and instead have their own rules in other publications.

The space marine summer update says :

SPACE MARINES SUMMER UPDATE

New units have been released for the forces of
the Adeptus Astartes, and their datasheets can
be found in this update. Codex: Space Marines
describes how these units can be taken as part
of a Chapter from that publication, however
they are also available to many other Space
Marine Chapters.

The update shows new units for to blood angels, space wolves, dark angels, and deathwatch. It literally says available to many other space marine chapters.

Stratagems only care about keywords.

Its a moot point, but regarding what defines being a space marine detachment

"In the rules described in this section we
sometimes refer to ‘Space Marines’ units and
Detachments. A Space Marines unit is any
Adeptus Astartes unit that has one of the
following Faction keywords: <CHAPTER>,
ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL FISTS,
SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS, RAVEN
GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON FISTS
or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines
Detachment is a Detachment that only
includes Space Marines units.
Note that the Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights and
Legion of the Damned deviate significantly in
terms of organisation and fighting styles. These
Chapters therefore cannot make use of any of
the rules in this section, and instead have their
own rules in other publications."

Blood angels, Dark Angels, Space wolves, are not space marines for the basis of what a space marine detachment is in the rules for the space marines codex per the RAW.

Again as I have already agreed, for any stratagem that targets "Adeptus Astartes" it would work on anything that has that keyword if you have a battle-forged space marine detachment, and a battle forged whatever that other thing is detachment.

in short blood angels/dark angels/space wolves - in terms of game rules are not space marine units. If they have appropriate keywords you can still target them for things you have unlocked during army creation- if they don't you cant. Seems like you can.

The space marine summer update directly contradicts the SM codex by showing new units available to other space marine chapters.

SPACE MARINES SUMMER UPDATE

New units have been released for the forces of
the Adeptus Astartes, and their datasheets can
be found in this update. Codex: Space Marines
describes how these units can be taken as part
of a Chapter from that publication, however
they are also available to many other Space
Marine Chapters.

It literally says many other space marine chapters, i have marked it in red. The update adds new units to BA, DA, SW, DW.

So, let me get this right. They arent space marines units and detachments because they dont have certain faction keywords, but they are space marine chapters when it comes to adding new units ?

They cannot cannot make use of any of the rules in this section, and instead have their own rules in other publications, but they can because stratagems only care about keywords ?

 p5freak wrote:
The space marine summer update directly contradicts the SM codex by showing new units available to other space marine chapters.

SPACE MARINES SUMMER UPDATE

New units have been released for the forces of
the Adeptus Astartes, and their datasheets can
be found in this update. Codex: Space Marines
describes how these units can be taken as part
of a Chapter from that publication, however
they are also available to many other Space
Marine Chapters.

It literally says many other space marine chapters, i have marked it in red. The update adds new units to BA, DA, SW, DW.

So, let me get this right. They arent space marines units and detachments because they dont have certain faction keywords, but they are space marine chapters when it comes to adding new units ?

They cannot cannot make use of any of the rules in this section, and instead have their own rules in other publications, but they can because stratagems only care about keywords ?

"In the rules described in this section

That definition of Space Marines only applies to the rules described in that section. And yes, we've been over this several times. And Yes, they really screwed the pooch by not making this another level of faction keyword. The rules in the Summer Update are in a different publication entirely, let alone a different section.

In other words, GW's design team are so breathtakingly incompetent that they constructed a ruleset around a simple keyword system and still managed to feth it up because none of them have the basic professionalism to ensure they used important game terms consistently (or the intelligence to understand that a keyword system requires that consistency).

 Duskweaver wrote:
In other words, GW's design team are so breathtakingly incompetent that they constructed a ruleset around a simple keyword system and still managed to feth it up because none of them have the basic professionalism to ensure they used important game terms consistently (or the intelligence to understand that a keyword system requires that consistency).

That and after changing the basic faction name from Space Marines to Adeptus Astartes they still use the Space Marines faction name informally to describe some but not all of what it used to encompass. They should have tacked on CODEX and/or NON-CODEX to every ADEPTUS ASTARTES

At that point CODEX <CHAPTER> and NON-CODEX <CHAPTER> can differentiate between the Codex Space Marine, and the standalone book chapters. It would have likely prevented the need for the Summer Update at all, as they could have just added a datasheet to the Phobos units and Repulsor(s) for the Codex Chapters and the Stand Alone's from the beginning.

Breton wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
In other words, GW's design team are so breathtakingly incompetent that they constructed a ruleset around a simple keyword system and still managed to feth it up because none of them have the basic professionalism to ensure they used important game terms consistently (or the intelligence to understand that a keyword system requires that consistency).

That and after changing the basic faction name from Space Marines to Adeptus Astartes they still use the Space Marines faction name informally to describe some but not all of what it used to encompass. They should have tacked on CODEX and/or NON-CODEX to every ADEPTUS ASTARTES

At that point CODEX <CHAPTER> and NON-CODEX <CHAPTER> can differentiate between the Codex Space Marine, and the standalone book chapters. It would have likely prevented the need for the Summer Update at all, as they could have just added a datasheet to the Phobos units and Repulsor(s) for the Codex Chapters and the Stand Alone's from the beginning.

I like the basic idea, but it probably shouldn't be the word Codex. Just more potential confusion for people who buy 'Codex Dark Angels', as Codex itself is overloaded.

The main problem here seems to be that Chapter, Space Marine and Adeptus Astartes can form part of both a) the background narrative and b) specific keywords used by the game mechanics.

Thus only the context of usage can determine whether these are being used to describe specific rules mechanics, the general interrelation (or not) between the different loyalist codices or other background description.

A ‘Space Marine Detachment’ in the rules mechanics context is a detachment drawn from Codex:SM, just as a Blood Angels Detachment is a detachment drawn from Codex:BA

A ‘Space Marine Detachment’ in a purely descriptive sense is a formation of Space Marines (which could also include their corrupted and renegade kin).

With this in mind, I still recon the FAQ answers the question. Non-Codex:SM Armies can use Stratagems from Codex:SM subject to the usual descriptions (i.e. there needs to be a Codex:SM detactment in the army, and adhere to the keywords as required by the stratagem).

Cornishman wrote:
The main problem here seems to be that Chapter, Space Marine and Adeptus Astartes can form part of both a) the background narrative and b) specific keywords used by the game mechanics.

Thus only the context of usage can determine whether these are being used to describe specific rules mechanics, the general interrelation (or not) between the different loyalist codices or other background description.

A ‘Space Marine Detachment’ in the rules mechanics context is a detachment drawn from Codex:SM, just as a Blood Angels Detachment is a detachment drawn from Codex:BA

A ‘Space Marine Detachment’ in a purely descriptive sense is a formation of Space Marines (which could also include their corrupted and renegade kin).

With this in mind, I still recon the FAQ answers the question. Non-Codex:SM Armies can use Stratagems from Codex:SM subject to the usual descriptions (i.e. there needs to be a Codex:SM detactment in the army, and adhere to the keywords as required by the stratagem).

Well contextually Adeptus Astartes is different than ADEPTUS ASTARTES

Breton wrote:

Cornishman wrote:
The main problem here seems to be that Chapter, Space Marine and Adeptus Astartes can form part of both a) the background narrative and b) specific keywords used by the game mechanics.

Thus only the context of usage can determine whether these are being used to describe specific rules mechanics, the general interrelation (or not) between the different loyalist codices or other background description.

A ‘Space Marine Detachment’ in the rules mechanics context is a detachment drawn from Codex:SM, just as a Blood Angels Detachment is a detachment drawn from Codex:BA

A ‘Space Marine Detachment’ in a purely descriptive sense is a formation of Space Marines (which could also include their corrupted and renegade kin).

With this in mind, I still recon the FAQ answers the question. Non-Codex:SM Armies can use Stratagems from Codex:SM subject to the usual descriptions (i.e. there needs to be a Codex:SM detactment in the army, and adhere to the keywords as required by the stratagem).

Well contextually Adeptus Astartes is different than ADEPTUS ASTARTES

Precisely my point.
So from the Space Marines Summer Update

New units have been released for the forces of the Adeptus Astartes, and their datasheets can be found in this update. Codex: Space Marines describes how these units can be taken as part of a Chapter from that publication, however they are also available to many other Space Marine Chapters

Keywords are presents in small capitals. None of this sentence is, so this sentence is providing background context to the rules mechanics that are provided elsewhere in the document, rather than actual rules mechanics.

p5freak wrote:The space marine summer update directly contradicts the SM codex by showing new units available to other space marine chapters.

SPACE MARINES SUMMER UPDATE

New units have been released for the forces of the Adeptus Astartes, and their datasheets can be found in this update. Codex: Space Marines describes how these units can be taken as part of a Chapter from that publication, however they are also available to many other Space Marine Chapters.

It literally says many other space marine chapters, i have marked it in red. The update adds new units to BA, DA, SW, DW.

So, let me get this right. They arent space marines units and detachments because they dont have certain faction keywords, but they are space marine chapters when it comes to adding new units ?

They cannot cannot make use of any of the rules in this section, and instead have their own rules in other publications, but they can because stratagems only care about keywords ?

There isn't a contradiction in the rules. As this isn't describing game mechanics. What makes the units available to other Chapters (not <CHAPTER> ) who have thier own Codex is that the that Summer Update includes content such as

BLOOD ANGELS
The following new units are available to the
Blood Angels:
• Captain in Phobos Armour
• Librarian in Phobos Armour

and the Summer Update then provides the data sheets for these units. At no point are we referred to Codex: SM for these rules. The data sheets are effectively added to C: BA, C: DA etc.. as addendums. As such the rules for any of the new units that are added now form part of the rules set of that codex.

The section SPACE MARINE UNITS AND DETACHMENTS addresses, what in the context of the rules within C:SM is a 'Space Marine' unit or detachment. It is any Adeptus Astartes unit (okay, so could include other marine codicies) that has one of the following Faction Keywords: <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES,... or BLACK TEMPLAR.This second requirement prevents detachments drawn from other Codicies from mechanically as rule being a 'Space Marine' army (and thus being able to make use of relics, warlord traits etc...), but doesn't stop such Chpaters being described as 'Space Marine' in a non-games mechanic fashion within Codex:SM, nor prevents such Chapters as being 'Space Marine' within other possible other contexts.

So Codex:SM says SPACE WOLVES only aren't 'Space Marines' for the purposes of accessing the rules of Codex: SM. However if you have a Battle Forged Army with a SPACE WOLVES Detachments, and a <CHAPTER>/UM/BT/IH... Detachment then, subject to the usual Keyword Description (e.g. where there in no <CHAPTER>/ULTRAMARINE/.../SPACE WOLVES requirement only the requirement to be ADEPTUS ASTARTES) you may use Stratagems from C: SM on units from C: SW and vise-versa.

 p5freak wrote:
The space marine summer update directly contradicts the SM codex by showing new units available to other space marine chapters.

SPACE MARINES SUMMER UPDATE

New units have been released for the forces of
the Adeptus Astartes, and their datasheets can
be found in this update. Codex: Space Marines
describes how these units can be taken as part
of a Chapter from that publication, however
they are also available to many other Space
Marine Chapters.

It literally says many other space marine chapters, i have marked it in red. The update adds new units to BA, DA, SW, DW.

So, let me get this right. They arent space marines units and detachments because they dont have certain faction keywords, but they are space marine chapters when it comes to adding new units ?

They cannot cannot make use of any of the rules in this section, and instead have their own rules in other publications, but they can because stratagems only care about keywords ?

Yes.

The codex says which keywords are space marine units Anf detachment, it also lists valid selections for chapters-adding that BA SW DA etc are chapters but have their own rules which are separate.

So they are valid chapters, but not for the chapter keyword in the am codex and for the rules are not valid space marine units or detachment

This would prevent someone from accessing the codex stratagems with a BA detachment and no other battle forged detachments

The FAQ is very clear. Yes you can use them, I do not know why this is still a discussion!

New FAQ throws all that out I'm afraid:

Q. If I include a Space Marines Detachment in my army, can
I use the Stratagems from Codex: Space Marines to affect
Adeptus Astartes units from other codexes, such as Codex:
Grey Knights or Codex: Deathwatch?
A: No, as noted in the second paragraph under Space
Marine Units and Detachments on page 174 of Codex:
Space Marines.

Which totally flies in the face of the rules THEY THEMSELVES put in the the BRB FAQ and the rulebook. At least there is a special snowflake FAQ to end the discussion.

I guess this means you can't use the stratagems on any Forge World units then too?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Which totally flies in the face of the rules THEY THEMSELVES put in the the BRB FAQ and the rulebook. At least there is a special snowflake FAQ to end the discussion.

I guess this means you can't use the stratagems on any Forge World units then too?

I don't think so, it only calls out other Codexes and FW Indexes are not Codexes.

Technically that might mean you can use them on Dark Angels etc from FW Indexes but that would clearly not be intended.

Dadavester wrote:
The FAQ is very clear. Yes you can use them, I do not know why this is still a discussion!

The relevant FAQ was released like an hour ago.

And yeah, I have to agree with BCB for once - the inconsistency is really annoying, even if I'm happy they decided this - for the SM codex - the way I'd prefer it to be ruled.

nekooni wrote:

Dadavester wrote:
The FAQ is very clear. Yes you can use them, I do not know why this is still a discussion!

The relevant FAQ was released like an hour ago.

It's almost like he's talking about a different FAQ that is contradicted by the new FAQ or something. It's frustrating they have contradictory answers for questions depending on what codex you're using. If they made it so you can't mix the CSM stratagems that would be fine, but PICK A LANE GRANDPA.

nekooni wrote:

Dadavester wrote:
The FAQ is very clear. Yes you can use them, I do not know why this is still a discussion!

The relevant FAQ was released like an hour ago.

It looks like his post was prior to the new FAQ's release.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nekooni wrote:

Dadavester wrote:
The FAQ is very clear. Yes you can use them, I do not know why this is still a discussion!

The relevant FAQ was released like an hour ago.

It's almost like he's talking about a different FAQ that is contradicted by the new FAQ or something. It's frustrating they have contradictory answers for questions depending on what codex you're using. If they made it so you can't mix the CSM stratagems that would be fine, but PICK A LANE GRANDPA.

Totally agree, I already updated my post to reflect that.