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'Ello all!

Today my brain has really started giving me the itch to paint some Black Templars up, but I do have a question regarding Crusader Squads.

As we know, Crusader Squads are the way the BT train their neophytes. An initiate is paired with a scout neophyte to teach them the ways of war. Since Cawl has been doing his thing, however, the Primaris Marines have shown up as battle-ready inductees and it would seem that the first wave skipped the crusader squad step and went ahead as Intercessors.

My question is this then: would newly created Primaris Black Templars have to join a crusader squad first, or would they simply do the whole 'neophyte/initiate' thing in an Intercessor squad and learn from a more experienced Primaris Intercessor?

This leads me to other questions: It seems like scouts are just going the way of the Dodo as they are the way you make 'old' space marines and since Primaris Marines are real boys straight out of boot camp, they wouldn't have to go through that phase of training. That said, I feel like the Black Templars are pretty traditionalist and so they as a chapter may just make a Primaris Marine go through the same process that everyone else did. I can see it both ways here.

I'm asking this purely for background information. I understand the rules don't allow for Primaris Marines in a crusader squad. I'm thinking of painting some Black Templars up for a painting competition and I'm wanting to get an idea of it would be cool to have a crusader squad with Primaris Marines mixed in.

I think we'll find out in the relatively near future. IF the rumours of a BT Codex (likely a supplement to the new Marine Codex, possibly as part of a Big Box vs Orks) turn out to be true.

In the meantime, painting for a competition, I'd just go with what you think will look cool.

I feel like BT would still have them work their way up, their set up is still very knightly in the sense you effectively work as a "squire" /scout at the beginning, tailing behind your assigned "knight"/initiate before being proven worthy of joining their ranks. Their rituals for being accepted into the sword brethren are already quite intensive so I wouldn't see how that wouldn't still be the case

It's possible that new BT Primaris Marines are created ONLY through upgrades on existing marines rather than jumping straight ahead to it during the initial implant process during a neophyte's initiation. (ie. the neophyte/initiate step still exists, but the Primaris part is added in afterwards somewhere between that and becoming a sword brother), that way you still prove yourself and the Primaris treatment is seen as more of an honor bestowed upon those who have earned it. This could be your fluff explanation as to why Primaris aren't in Crusader squads atm. Sounds extra, but BT aren't exactly the one for the path of least resistance given their emphasis on honor in CC.

Grimskul I really like that idea. Maybe the Primaris upgrade would be an extra honour, or the mininarine form some form of censure.

 godswildcard wrote:

This leads me to other questions: It seems like scouts are just going the way of the Dodo as they are the way you make 'old' space marines and since Primaris Marines are real boys straight out of boot camp, they wouldn't have to go through that phase of training. That said, I feel like the Black Templars are pretty traditionalist and so they as a chapter may just make a Primaris Marine go through the same process that everyone else did. I can see it both ways here.

The new codex explains that the Primaris start as scouts and are trained pretty much the same way than the old marines.

Black Templars made sense with the standard way up from Scout to Veteran. The "add on" Primaris doesn't fit in there , IMHO, so maybe the next step is to either drop the crusader squads or the Primaris will be treated like brothers of the ( former Legion ) Imperial Fists. So not really a part of the Black Templars but accepted coworkers in the crusade. They get to wear Team colors too as a bonus.

Sometimes, the Neophytes were called "meatshields" by some people. Primaris = newly improved bigger meatshields...

 Crimson wrote:
The new codex explains that the Primaris start as scouts and are trained pretty much the same way than the old marines.

I didn't know that. Still haven't picked up the new codex, but I'm honestly surprised they took the time to add more 'background' than was previously available.


Thanks for all the responses, everyone! I actually kind of like the idea of the Primaris treatment being the step between Initiate and Sword Brother. I think that for the time being I'll move forward with that and really try to bling out a squad of Intercessors. Also possibly some roasty Aggressors...

Played Black Templar since 3rd edition and read all their "fluff" (I think).

Due to their feudal culture of basically a servant learning the trade from his "master" this is all well and good.

Having a knight, erhm, "Initiate" be subservient would be "unseemly" and should not lower himself.

Knights in the real world are called "Sir", knights of equal rank will not use the honorific.

Found this interesting bit:

The other non-knightly warriors in the Templar Order mainly consisted of the sergents (in French) or servientes in Latin, which can be either translated as ‘sergeants’ or ‘servants’. Most of these warriors played a supporting role in the battlefield, by forming solid infantry lines or at times doubling up as screening medium cavalry. However, there were also many sergents who played non-combative roles by taking up ‘commercial’ professions like builders and craftsmen.

So the Primaris who did not start out as Scouts could be called "Sergeants" and sound really important but still be "doubling up as screening medium cavalry" = meat shields.

This was neat to look into.

 godswildcard wrote:

I didn't know that. Still haven't picked up the new codex, but I'm honestly surprised they took the time to add more 'background' than was previously available.

Primaris Marines are the future of space marines, GW's going to flesh them out. they HAVE to if they want Primaris Marines to be accepted