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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




New Mexico, USA

Let's say a squad of 10 Space Marines is shooting at a mob of 30 Ork boyz. Most of the Ork boyz are out of line of sight, such that each of the 10 marines can see only a single Ork. Let's say the marines are at long rapid fire stance and each rolls a single die, and they end up dealing the Ork mob 5 wounds.

1. Because technically firing happens one model at a time, Can I can take the first wound on the visible Ork, and then if he dies then the remaining 5 wounds are lost because the rest of the Ork mob is no longer within line of sight from the next marine who shoots?

2. If instead, the 10 wounds are all inflicted by a single model (say a dreadnought), I have to take saves for all 10 Orks though, because wounds from each individual model's firing can be allocated to non-visible target models, right?

3. Now let's say that the marines are at short rapid fire range such that each one rolls more than one die for his shooting attacks. Would you have to resolve their attacks literally one model at a time because now it's possible for a single model to inflict two wounds, and the second one would have to be allocated to a non-visible Ork?
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

The answer to all three questions is the same:

You only check line of sight and range at step 2 of the shooting sequence.

So you can wound guys that are not visible and/or out of range in the target unit, even if casualty removal puts those models out of range and/or line of sight.

Edit: Page 5 of the battle primer has the shooting sequence rules for 40K

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/01 02:55:59


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Made in gb
Norn Queen






 DeathReaper wrote:
The answer to all three questions is the same:

You only check line of sight and range at step 2 of the shooting sequence.

So you can wound guys that are not visible and/or out of range in the target unit, even if casualty removal puts those models out of range and/or line of sight.

Edit: Page 5 of the battle primer has the shooting sequence rules for 40K
This is indeed the correct answer. You only check once, so you always get to make all your shooting regardless of casulties.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




New Mexico, USA

So what if the 29 are in cover and one out in the open? Same thing and the unit takes 10 wounds with no +1 to their armor save? I thought I remembered reading an FAQ about this that said you could kill the guy out in the open with the first wound and then the remaining 9 in cover got the +1 save cover bonus...
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Q: When determining whether a model benefits from cover, does
the model’s entire unit need to be fully on or within terrain, or
just the model making a particular saving throw?
A: All of the models in a unit need to be at least partially
on or within terrain if any of the models are to receive
the +1 bonus to their saving throw.

Note, however, that it is possible for a unit to gain the benefit
of cover as it suffers casualties during the Shooting phase by
removing those models that are not on, or within terrain. As
soon as the last model that was not on or within terrain is
slain, the rest of the unit immediately starts to receive the benefit
of cover.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




New Mexico, USA

See, that's what I thought. The logic behind that FAQ entry would seem to imply the same thing for units out of line of sight.

Otherwise, a unit with most models not at all visible is more vulnerable than a unit with most models visible but in cover, which makes negative sense.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Only one model needs to be visible and within weapon range, and the entire unit can be killed. It makes no sense, but thats how the rules are.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Pointed Stick wrote:
See, that's what I thought. The logic behind that FAQ entry would seem to imply the same thing for units out of line of sight.

Otherwise, a unit with most models not at all visible is more vulnerable than a unit with most models visible but in cover, which makes negative sense.


Regardless of whether that makes sense to you, those are the rules of the game.
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




If you don't like rules that don't make sense BCB's signiture is not somewhere you'd like to go...

Also moral. Or flamers auto hitting supersonic aircraft, or...

Edit - Note if both you and your opponent feel the same way you can 100% house rule the way the rule works. If your opponent doesn't disagree, you're stuck with the way the rules work, or a different opponent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 06:47:57


Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut





Pointed Stick wrote:
See, that's what I thought. The logic behind that FAQ entry would seem to imply the same thing for units out of line of sight.

Otherwise, a unit with most models not at all visible is more vulnerable than a unit with most models visible but in cover, which makes negative sense.


You need to determine things based on the order of operations described.

Choosing targets happens no mater what before any attacks are made and the targets of each attacks are "locked in."
Determining whether or not a unit has cover happens when you determine saves.
Saves are determined model by model.

Its all outlined in the "fight phase" in the BRB.
The language there is a bit confusing, but its all correct.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/02 07:01:54


As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.

RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
 
   
 
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