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2019/09/01 12:46:51
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
Out of idle curiosity, how badly does the new rules about index units affect your Tournament list? For me I am losing my Warlord (Warboss on Warbike with relic Klaw), I am losing about 100pts of wargear or to put it another way, am having to spend 100+pts more for less useful options for my list. While I don't use them in tournaments anymore, the loss of the deffkopta bomb is a huge loss to my for fun lists because without the bomb the deffkopta is just crap. I was also kind of hoping for a massive point reduction for my Painboy on Warbike, apparently that won't be happening anytime soon
Zero, on anything I'd use in a tournament. I only use my Juggerlord once in a while but only pick up games. My current competitive army is Chaos Knights so everything is good to go.
2019/09/01 13:43:10
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
Zero, I don't have a tournament list. But even if I had one, I don't think any index GK units are used nowadays.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2019/09/01 14:28:05
Subject: Re:How badly did this effect your tournament list
Zero, the collective response to that announcement in my area is F off on suggesting models should be invalid just because GW doesn't sell them anymore.
2019/09/01 20:45:29
Subject: Re:How badly did this effect your tournament list
Zero. Because I'm not a fan of tourney play. I view the obsession with tourney play as a cancer in the hobby. So I purposefully don't play them. Thus the odds of me having to build for that environment is almost* non-existent.
* I say almost because every great once-in-a-while I'll play a few rounds when at GenCon (big gaming convention here in the USA) if I'm feeling the need for a 40k fix. But there's nothing in my generic DA case that'd ever be affected & that's my "travel" army.
2019/09/01 20:51:42
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
Mmmpi wrote: Doesn't effect me at all. The apparent replies from GW is that the Indexes are all still legal (following the flowchart).
Pretty much this?
I was under the impression the flowchart gak is still relevant.
Can anyone cite an FAQ stating otherwise?
I'm confused..
I spent a lot of time converting & painting the visarch kit into a winged autarch with reaper launcher to be my lead HQ.
Considering how there no official model for "autarch on foot" they can do one with the whole no models no rules BS.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Anyone that didn't realise index units were going away at some point was living a lie.
If they were models you had before yeah, it sucks. If you made them after your codex came out without said entry, tough luck you should have known better.
2019/09/02 00:01:22
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
Ordana wrote: Anyone that didn't realise index units were going away at some point was living a lie.
If they were models you had before yeah, it sucks. If you made them after your codex came out without said entry, tough luck you should have known better.
That's such a self rightous thing to say.. Before a new edition/codex is provided for the army? No, definitely not.
How was I supposed to know better if I got into the hobby in January/february this year? There is no "autarch on foot" model on sale (which is a codex entry) so I made my own, and at the time the understanding was that the previous index options are legal and are supported by the codex (I even bought the index..) which was all hella confusing and took a lot of explaining by my FLG to get my head around in the first place(not to mention the flowchart which was re-iterated in a subsuqent FAQ)..
It wasn't until many months into the hobby I fully grasped the entire context of legacy index', and where the game is at. And at no point throughout this was there any hint that these options are going to be invalidated this edition and in fact it appeared to the contrary.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/09/02 00:07:33
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Also, how was I supposed to know better if I got into the hobby in January/february this year?
Are you gas lighting? You have posts in tactics / general 40k going back to 2014...
I got into 40k briefly around 2014(I think I painted 1 squad of guardians and never played a game) but ended up selling up shop due to life circumstances shortly after and not starting 40k in earnest until my GF got me some models for x mas in 2019. This time I'm in airbrush deep and in for good Kept the same dakka account though.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/09/02 00:25:09
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
ccs wrote: Zero. Because I'm not a fan of tourney play. I view the obsession with tourney play as a cancer in the hobby. So I purposefully don't play them. Thus the odds of me having to build for that environment is almost* non-existent.
* I say almost because every great once-in-a-while I'll play a few rounds when at GenCon (big gaming convention here in the USA) if I'm feeling the need for a 40k fix. But there's nothing in my generic DA case that'd ever be affected & that's my "travel" army.
Ordana wrote: Anyone that didn't realise index units were going away at some point was living a lie.
If they were models you had before yeah, it sucks. If you made them after your codex came out without said entry, tough luck you should have known better.
That's such a self rightous thing to say..
Before a new edition/codex is provided for the army? No, definitely not.
How was I supposed to know better if I got into the hobby in January/february this year? There is no "autarch on foot" model on sale (which is a codex entry) so I made my own, and at the time the understanding was that the previous index options are legal and are supported by the codex (I even bought the index..) which was all hella confusing and took a lot of explaining by my FLG to get my head around in the first place(not to mention the flowchart which was re-iterated in a subsuqent FAQ)..
It wasn't until many months into the hobby I fully grasped the entire context of legacy index', and where the game is at. And at no point throughout this was there any hint that these options are going to be invalidated this edition and in fact it appeared to the contrary.
Ya I don't think that matters tbh. The information that the index are(or high probability) is out there. No one person is ever going to know every secret the universe has to offer. Saying oh it took me x long to figure out.....so what? The information is available its not like they where hiding anything...its not self righteous to say "tough luck you should have known better.".
The same applies to anything...if i bought 500 tons of canned beans thinking they would last 60 years but actually go bad in two years the bean company doesn't have the responsibility to swoop in and pander to everyone of my needs.
The information was there and it was set up i a manner where it was kinda obvious as well (index vs codex).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 00:48:59
2019/09/02 01:01:01
Subject: Re:How badly did this effect your tournament list
For my armies and lists? Almost no effect at all. I wasn't using Index options except for possibly some wargear on Scout bikers for my Dark Angels (I think they can't take Storm Bolters anymore or something). I have a Juggerlord for my Chaos army, but I haven't used him once in 8th edition and I'm probably going to sell my Chaos army soon anyways.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 23 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
2019/09/02 01:04:39
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
ccs wrote: Zero. Because I'm not a fan of tourney play. I view the obsession with tourney play as a cancer in the hobby. So I purposefully don't play them. Thus the odds of me having to build for that environment is almost* non-existent.
* I say almost because every great once-in-a-while I'll play a few rounds when at GenCon (big gaming convention here in the USA) if I'm feeling the need for a 40k fix. But there's nothing in my generic DA case that'd ever be affected & that's my "travel" army.
Ordana wrote: Anyone that didn't realise index units were going away at some point was living a lie.
If they were models you had before yeah, it sucks. If you made them after your codex came out without said entry, tough luck you should have known better.
That's such a self rightous thing to say.. Before a new edition/codex is provided for the army? No, definitely not.
How was I supposed to know better if I got into the hobby in January/february this year? There is no "autarch on foot" model on sale (which is a codex entry) so I made my own, and at the time the understanding was that the previous index options are legal and are supported by the codex (I even bought the index..) which was all hella confusing and took a lot of explaining by my FLG to get my head around in the first place(not to mention the flowchart which was re-iterated in a subsuqent FAQ)..
It wasn't until many months into the hobby I fully grasped the entire context of legacy index', and where the game is at. And at no point throughout this was there any hint that these options are going to be invalidated this edition and in fact it appeared to the contrary.
Ya I don't think that matters tbh. The information that the index are(or high probability) is out there. No one person is ever going to know every secret the universe has to offer. Saying oh it took me x long to figure out.....so what? The information is available its not like they where hiding anything...its not self righteous to say "tough luck you should have known better.".
The same applies to anything...if i bought 500 tons of canned beans thinking they would last 60 years but actually go bad in two years the bean company doesn't have the responsibility to swoop in and pander to everyone of my needs.
The information was there and it was set up i a manner where it was kinda obvious as well (index vs codex).
Nay, I've seen at least 2 FAQ explaining how index options are valid through the flowchart..(one a Big FAQ early on in the year I think then a similar one when the CSM 2.0 was released I think?) And if there was any information indicating to the contrary, I was not aware of it. Therefore I believe I made a reasonable assumption this would be supported through the current edition/codex. Because why would it not be? I was expecting to get more mileage of my guy. Now it seems I will get very little mileage...
Not that its really relevant but In your example of beans; if you bough beans that had a best before date of 60 years from today and they went bad in 2 years, you would absolutely go after the company for selling you gak beans and get a refund... so not even sure what you are trying to say there.
I'm not advocating that all options from all indexes etc. should be supported for ever and ever. I am fully aware that things change. But that's what edition changes/new codexes are for no ?Hence the whole idea of index & codex working in tandem in the first place. There a difference if its a case of "remember how we told you you can use options XYZ? Well we doing a 180 on this because resons GL & HF" especially if there is no official model covering my specific codex entry, therefore no model no rules argument justifying the 180 is BS.
I will have to adjust which although very annoying is not the end of the world but a lot of my friends do play tourneys and want games to playtests their lists so invalidating one of the key units I have based lists off(and was hoping to use at a tourneys) will mean I won't be WYSYWIG in pick up games and will need a new model that doesn't actually exists (namely autarch on foot).
Once again can someone cite where it says these are invalidate in tournament play/matched play? Or is this a wide swing assumption which may or may not be true? I don't remember reading this anywhere so naturally Im a bit peeved if its the case..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 01:25:03
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
To be honest, if an option or unit didn't make it into the Codex, I would have already assumed it wasn't gonna be a viable option for much longer. Otherwise, it would have made the transition. So I've been sticking to the Codex anyway and the "no Index in tournaments" rule doesn't affect me.
Edit: in other words, I had already assumed the rules for using Index options were a stop-gap to allow folks to use their old models until they could "upgrade" to the Codex. So, I went ahead and did that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 01:57:39
2019/09/02 04:59:05
Subject: Re:How badly did this effect your tournament list
Mmmpi wrote: Doesn't effect me at all. The apparent replies from GW is that the Indexes are all still legal (following the flowchart).
So the index will still be legal ? That seems an odd choice.
To answer the question it doesn't bother me at all aside from some flavor units I don't have much that would be lost. Just a couple old Lascannon twin plasma gun razorbacks, iron priest on thunder wolf and some assorted characters on rides they can't take for some dumb reason oh and rough riders because they can't be bothered to just make a dual use kit to remake rough riders.
2019/09/02 06:08:22
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
Well, I'll be dropping the Ebon Chalice Imagifer+Exorcists combination. At the very least, I'm on 3+/4+ for the good acts instead of 2+.
It's definitely an inconvenience that I'll actually have to use the Acts of Faith as intended, which is comparatively very weak. I fully support the measure of restricting index and obsolete datasheets from competitive play, though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/02 06:12:14
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2019/09/02 06:31:07
Subject: Re:How badly did this effect your tournament list
As yet - Not at all, since they've not provided any offical clarifications that anything has changed.
If something does change, I'll be missing my rough riders, for sure. My Eldar Autarchs will be a problem and heaven knows what'll happen to my Inquisition.
Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder.
2019/09/02 07:39:47
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
Mmmpi wrote: Doesn't effect me at all. The apparent replies from GW is that the Indexes are all still legal (following the flowchart).
So the index will still be legal ? That seems an odd choice.
To answer the question it doesn't bother me at all aside from some flavor units I don't have much that would be lost. Just a couple old Lascannon twin plasma gun razorbacks, iron priest on thunder wolf and some assorted characters on rides they can't take for some dumb reason oh and rough riders because they can't be bothered to just make a dual use kit to remake rough riders.
I think people have misconstrued GW intention. Index 2 for SoS and Inquisition will likely still be valid as they are current models without rules otherwise.
Likewise I don't expect FW indexes to be given the legends treatment either. It's typical GW mixed messages as they can't get their terminology straight.
Any model that you can't buy from GW or isn't in a codex if your faction has one will be moved to legends and will become nolonger recommend for event's.
2019/09/02 08:42:12
Subject: How badly did this effect your tournament list
Mmmpi wrote: Doesn't effect me at all. The apparent replies from GW is that the Indexes are all still legal (following the flowchart).
So the index will still be legal ? That seems an odd choice.
To answer the question it doesn't bother me at all aside from some flavor units I don't have much that would be lost. Just a couple old Lascannon twin plasma gun razorbacks, iron priest on thunder wolf and some assorted characters on rides they can't take for some dumb reason oh and rough riders because they can't be bothered to just make a dual use kit to remake rough riders.
As far as I can tell, GW still considers them legal. They haven't said "legal for now", or specified specific indexes will stay legal. That may change in the future of course.
2019/09/02 08:55:34
Subject: Re:How badly did this effect your tournament list
ccs wrote: Zero. Because I'm not a fan of tourney play. I view the obsession with tourney play as a cancer in the hobby. So I purposefully don't play them. Thus the odds of me having to build for that environment is almost* non-existent.
* I say almost because every great once-in-a-while I'll play a few rounds when at GenCon (big gaming convention here in the USA) if I'm feeling the need for a 40k fix. But there's nothing in my generic DA case that'd ever be affected & that's my "travel" army.
Ordana wrote: Anyone that didn't realise index units were going away at some point was living a lie.
If they were models you had before yeah, it sucks. If you made them after your codex came out without said entry, tough luck you should have known better.
That's such a self rightous thing to say..
Before a new edition/codex is provided for the army? No, definitely not.
How was I supposed to know better if I got into the hobby in January/february this year? There is no "autarch on foot" model on sale (which is a codex entry) so I made my own, and at the time the understanding was that the previous index options are legal and are supported by the codex (I even bought the index..) which was all hella confusing and took a lot of explaining by my FLG to get my head around in the first place(not to mention the flowchart which was re-iterated in a subsuqent FAQ)..
It wasn't until many months into the hobby I fully grasped the entire context of legacy index', and where the game is at. And at no point throughout this was there any hint that these options are going to be invalidated this edition and in fact it appeared to the contrary.
Ya I don't think that matters tbh. The information that the index are(or high probability) is out there. No one person is ever going to know every secret the universe has to offer. Saying oh it took me x long to figure out.....so what? The information is available its not like they where hiding anything...its not self righteous to say "tough luck you should have known better.".
The same applies to anything...if i bought 500 tons of canned beans thinking they would last 60 years but actually go bad in two years the bean company doesn't have the responsibility to swoop in and pander to everyone of my needs.
The information was there and it was set up i a manner where it was kinda obvious as well (index vs codex).
Nay, I've seen at least 2 FAQ explaining how index options are valid through the flowchart..(one a Big FAQ early on in the year I think then a similar one when the CSM 2.0 was released I think?) And if there was any information indicating to the contrary, I was not aware of it. Therefore I believe I made a reasonable assumption this would be supported through the current edition/codex. Because why would it not be? I was expecting to get more mileage of my guy. Now it seems I will get very little mileage...
Not that its really relevant but In your example of beans; if you bough beans that had a best before date of 60 years from today and they went bad in 2 years, you would absolutely go after the company for selling you gak beans and get a refund... so not even sure what you are trying to say there.
I'm not advocating that all options from all indexes etc. should be supported for ever and ever. I am fully aware that things change. But that's what edition changes/new codexes are for no ?Hence the whole idea of index & codex working in tandem in the first place. There a difference if its a case of "remember how we told you you can use options XYZ? Well we doing a 180 on this because resons GL & HF" especially if there is no official model covering my specific codex entry, therefore no model no rules argument justifying the 180 is BS.
I will have to adjust which although very annoying is not the end of the world but a lot of my friends do play tourneys and want games to playtests their lists so invalidating one of the key units I have based lists off(and was hoping to use at a tourneys) will mean I won't be WYSYWIG in pick up games and will need a new model that doesn't actually exists (namely autarch on foot).
Once again can someone cite where it says these are invalidate in tournament play/matched play? Or is this a wide swing assumption which may or may not be true?
I don't remember reading this anywhere so naturally Im a bit peeved if its the case..
I`m not sure, but when the codex droped there was still Autarch on foot model that was "sold out ". The lose on reaper luncher and banshee mask is really annoying.
Led`s hope they will drop the pts on the autarch with wings, dark reapers and make banshees good.
Eldar- 4436 pts
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
Thousand Sons 
World Eaters
Imperial Fists 405th Company 
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 