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Hi all,

New to the boards (long time lurker). I've been trying out different ideas with GCS for a few months now, and it might just be my local meta of armies but I'm finding myself pushed very strongly in the direction of Demo-charges on my Acolytes (post FAQ, which allows you to move into range after setting up) and large numbers of Neophytes.

I expected GSC to be all about a melee alpha strike, but I'm finding more and more the shooting element comes out on top as it's just more likely to do something from the start.

I'm not removing the melee elements from my lists (still running a large Uprising), but even the melee units are starting to bring guns (or bombs; that Uprising has Demo-charges as well...).

Anyone else experiencing similar?

After a fashion. I can't stand GSC vehicles and begrudge paying for wargear on my basic dudes because BS3 is depressing, but I find Summoned firepower Neophytes very useful indeed.

Yeah do love summoning 20 duders with flamers and Seimic Cannons

A quick question. What do you folks think of adding a Psykana Division? My current list involves an MSU Insurrection (A Brood Cycle, Sub Up, and a Doting Throng) + 2 CAD (One with Magus, Patriarch, and Neophytes, other with 2 Magus and Acolytes). I could basically drop one of the CADs to take the formation instead. I'd be losing a bunch of my Ob sec and a fearless bubble, but I'd gain an additional 4 warp charges to fuel summoning/buffing, and I'd likely roll on Malefic, and start summoning Daemons if things turn sideways. I kinda like the idea, any thoughts?

Why would you start summoning deamons?

when you could have MOAR GENESTEALERS!

GodDamUser wrote:
Why would you start summoning deamons?

when you could have MOAR GENESTEALERS!

The idea is that, if my 4 GSC psykers don't have any summons, or die, that they can use those charges. They're mainly to be a warp charge battery, with a back plan that involves them either bringing in more bodies, or exploding into a greater daemon.

 Bi'ios wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Why would you start summoning deamons?

when you could have MOAR GENESTEALERS!

The idea is that, if my 4 GSC psykers don't have any summons, or die, that they can use those charges. They're mainly to be a warp charge battery, with a back plan that involves them either bringing in more bodies, or exploding into a greater daemon.

It's been discussed in this topic, and I can give you a quick good/bad/ugly list.

good:
- Always got summoning and the battery can summon daemons to bring in a second wave (flank) apart from Genestealer cult.
- Possible possession to get cheap bloodthirster and/or lord of change.

Bad:
- These 300+ points can also give you 37 acolytes that can stand side to side with the GSC army at the start of turn 1.
- very fragile (barrage fire)
- 300 points can also pay for more magus psykers that increas your warpcharge to almost the same level and get's you more possibility for GSC summoning (which is better if you got the models).

Ugly:
- One eye open rule really limits your movement/game play.

If you use it for a warp charge battery, then I think your better of getting more magus psykers. If you want to bring in a daemon army at a particular flank you should summon flesh hounds/seekers and plague drones/screamers to make sure the move in fast to keep up with the GSC-units. If you don't have a lot of these units (including two blood thirsters) then I would not bother. slow walking daemon units (horrors, daemonettes, plaguebearers) cannot keep up and are not good compared to 37 acolytes.

If you want a Daemon warp battery then take Horrors, those thinks are so broken right now.

Tyran wrote:
If you want a Daemon warp battery then take Horrors, those thinks are so broken right now.

Why would any GSC-player take horror units if the can just pick more Lvl2 magus psykers (and increasing the chance to gain GSC-summoning)?

Good points. It's 280 points for the detachment, so it's basically equal to a CAD in points, which is 4 warp charge (as opposed to 8), but it's also 2 more rolls on Broodmind, and Ob Sec that I can ambush right on to an objective. Much to consider here. I'll read back in the thread to see the larger discussion.

I wouldn't try actually adding Daemons to my army, just summoning some. I don't feel like adding a CtA ally and paying points for it would be worthwhile, bringing them in from a flank to block in an enemy unit could be potentially clutch.

 Bi'ios wrote:
Good points. It's 280 points for the detachment, so it's basically equal to a CAD in points, which is 4 warp charge (as opposed to 8), but it's also 2 more rolls on Broodmind, and Ob Sec that I can ambush right on to an objective. Much to consider here. I'll read back in the thread to see the larger discussion.

I wouldn't try actually adding Daemons to my army, just summoning some. I don't feel like adding a CtA ally and paying points for it would be worthwhile, bringing them in from a flank to block in an enemy unit could be potentially clutch.

It's not only about the amount of warp charge but also what you do with it. And don't forget, the first perils that kills a psyker reduces the warpcharge with 1 right away.

psykana devision + 2x patriarch + magus (+chroughling) = 595

Versus

2x patriarch + 3x magus (+chroughling) 445 + 18 acolytes = 589

That's 14 warpcharge versus 10 and let's add a 4 result (d6).

With 14 warp charge the 5 GSC psykers can cast 1 big lvl3 summoning + other small power or 2x lvl 2 summoning.

With 18 warp charge the psykana combo can:

1: Use all warp charge to cast 2x GSC summoning but that is very unlikely. Your lucky if you get 1 GSC summoning power.
2: Use warp charge to cast one GSC summoning and 2 small GSC powers
3: Use warp charge to cast 3x daemonic summoning and deploy 3x fleshhounds.
4: Use warp charge to cast possession on psyker (he can borrow this power from other psykers) and after that also cast possession on psyker unit. Deploy 2 bloodthirsters.

When you look at scenario 1 and 2 it's not really that good if you compare it with the 5 GSC psykers and the 18 extra acolytes that you can have at the start of turn 1. Most times I cannot even cast anything besides 1 summoning because the enemy will use his deny-dice for the small stuff if the GSC summoning is to much to counter.

Scenario 3 and 4 can be good if the daemon units can keep on summoning for 3+ turns but like I said, you need to have the models for that. But even if you do it's=

3 turns x 3 daemon summoning = 9x5 fleshounds = 45 fleshhounds
3 turns x 1 GSC summoning = 20 neophytes + 10 metamorphs + 10 metamorphs all tooled up (for example) + extra 18 acolytes from turn 1.

Yes, fleshhounds got 2 wounds but the daemon units you cast from turn 3 onwards might not even do anything usefull.

Best case scenario is nr: 4 and deploy 2x bloodthirster at turn 1.


Talking about daemons: I've been thinking about making a big ass monstrous Patriarch/tyranid model as a count as skarbrand. If I get in a tournament that allows come to the apocalypse allies I might put it in there for fun. It's not even that bad for only 225 points and giving all enemy units/GSC units rage and hatred. I would always put GSC units in the shadow/ongoing reserves turn 1 and deep strike skarbrand on the field and then deploy the GSC units around him second turn.

^ I think he's right.

I've been running 5 magus and a patriarch in my list and really liking the flexibility of having all those psykers. Most games (93% odds) I get at least 1 summoning.

The primaris power is really great if you're playing against an army that doesn't have many psykers (battle company, especially lions blade)

And Shogun didn't even mention what i've found to be incredibly useful, the adwill bubble.

That adwill bubble plus having so many psykers and dice has saved me in multiple games. Daemons flying around trying to cast novas? Block all the novas. Eldar player trying to cast apoclyptic blast on you? blocked.

I've literally only had one nova go off against me and I've blocked a half dozen and two apoc blasts from eldar. That's 4 or 5 games I would have surely lost if I wasn't able to block on 4s.

So yeah, so far I've found the best defense against Daemons is magus's. They really shine by forcing the daemon player to summon or throw a gob load of dice at witchfires.

 vercingatorix wrote:
^ I think he's right.

And Shogun didn't even mention what i've found to be incredibly useful, the adwill bubble.

That adwill bubble plus having so many psykers and dice has saved me in multiple games. Daemons flying around trying to cast novas? Block all the novas. Eldar player trying to cast apoclyptic blast on you? blocked.

I've literally only had one nova go off against me and I've blocked a half dozen and two apoc blasts from eldar. That's 4 or 5 games I would have surely lost if I wasn't able to block on 4s.

So yeah, so far I've found the best defense against Daemons is magus's. They really shine by forcing the daemon player to summon or throw a gob load of dice at witchfires.

That's true but even with psykana division you can still field 2x magus with 12 inch adwill bubble and get more counter dice, so thats not really a dealbreaker.

shogun wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
^ I think he's right.

And Shogun didn't even mention what i've found to be incredibly useful, the adwill bubble.

That adwill bubble plus having so many psykers and dice has saved me in multiple games. Daemons flying around trying to cast novas? Block all the novas. Eldar player trying to cast apoclyptic blast on you? blocked.

I've literally only had one nova go off against me and I've blocked a half dozen and two apoc blasts from eldar. That's 4 or 5 games I would have surely lost if I wasn't able to block on 4s.

So yeah, so far I've found the best defense against Daemons is magus's. They really shine by forcing the daemon player to summon or throw a gob load of dice at witchfires.

That's true but even with psykana division you can still field 2x magus with 12 inch adwill bubble and get more counter dice, so thats not really a dealbreaker.

Yeah, that's true. With 5 though I never had to worry about magus placement though, 5 means they're damn near everywhere, I was always covered. It also went well with having 40 acolytes in the doting throng but that's getting a little specific.

I tend to lose 1 a turn to their squads getting killed because in order for the adwill bubble to be useful you gotta be up in the action. If you have two and you opponent prioritizes them they won't last long. I think it comes down to redundancy and player style.

Personally, I have to worry enough about bubbles and planning ahead with 4 ICs with bubbles, mixing in CTA allies (besides coteaz to hide in the corner) just adds to the thinking. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, in fact I think it would work quite well, but I don't know if it work that well in a tournament setting.

On a saturday afternoon with 4 hours and time to think and guaranteed you're getting 5-7 turns, I think it would be absolutely brutal. However, that's not the environment I'm list building for.

I think it would work quite well, but I don't know if it work that well in a tournament setting.

Which means it wouldn't work well, right?

I like the idea of having a bunch of Maguses (Magi?) around for adwill, but fearless on a combat beatstick is also pretty darn handy. Sure, the Patriarch is more points, but it's very nice to slap something into combat that won't just instantly crumble against anything that gets to hit back. That's what all the Neophytes with him are for.

MilkmanAl wrote:

I think it would work quite well, but I don't know if it work that well in a tournament setting.

Which means it wouldn't work well, right?

I like the idea of having a bunch of Maguses (Magi?) around for adwill, but fearless on a combat beatstick is also pretty darn handy. Sure, the Patriarch is more points, but it's very nice to slap something into combat that won't just instantly crumble against anything that gets to hit back. That's what all the Neophytes with him are for.

Essentially yes, but if you say something that looks like it is good on paper won't work, it tends to soothe over feelings by specifying your reasons!

And yeah, I just looked at what my list was having trouble dealing with decided that bodies was the best and most available solution, so cheaper HQs facilitate more bodies in the list and magus's also bring summoning for more bodies.

The fearless bubble is necessary as well which is why I gave up the extra roll on the cult ambush by taking them out of the sub up rising and putting them in the doting throng.

It's also pretty funny when my opponent blocks the run and charge power, I cast it again, fail, then say "reroll for doting throng". Those moments are why we play right!

So cray thought I had to annoying people with

GSC insurrection with Guard CAD taking Girlyman as a LoW

Has anyone tried allied Coteaz to keep from getting seized on as well as some extra warp charge? I guess you could run him and some cheap henchmen squads with psychics to generate warp charge. Camp him on anew objective with some plasma cannon servitors and it'll keep others away.

 Cptn_Snuggles wrote:
Has anyone tried allied Coteaz to keep from getting seized on as well as some extra warp charge? I guess you could run him and some cheap henchmen squads with psychics to generate warp charge. Camp him on anew objective with some plasma cannon servitors and it'll keep others away.

I mostly play tournaments that don't allow 'come the apocalypse' allies but if I could then I would bring a solo Coteaz. Henchmen are cheap warp charge but I would rather have another lvl 2 magus then another 3 warp charge. I don't need 1 extra warp charge I need GSC summoning. With coteaz I think every GSC list would have at least 2x patriarch + 1x magus(croughling) so that's 8 warp charge + d6 and most times I would use all that warp charge to get summoning anyway.

Why would you add plasmacannon henchmen? It gets expensive very fast and there is not a lot that plasmacannons can handle better then my acolytes/metamorph's. I also like the option to 'go into the shadows' first turn and start playing the second turn. With plasma henchmen on the field the would die right away.

So this is actually what I'm bringing to adepticon because they do allow CTA allies. I'm attaching him to a unit of Ultramarine Quad Guns and making the ultramarine librarian my warlord. Basically trying my best to go first and win there. I figure with full powered invis and rerollable 2+, GSC doesn't really have a chance after the opponent gets a psychic phase and it's a much less stressful army. You set up to go first every time and play from there.

shogun wrote:

 Cptn_Snuggles wrote:
Has anyone tried allied Coteaz to keep from getting seized on as well as some extra warp charge? I guess you could run him and some cheap henchmen squads with psychics to generate warp charge. Camp him on anew objective with some plasma cannon servitors and it'll keep others away.

I mostly play tournaments that don't allow 'come the apocalypse' allies but if I could then I would bring a solo Coteaz. Henchmen are cheap warp charge but I would rather have another lvl 2 magus then another 3 warp charge. I don't need 1 extra warp charge I need GSC summoning. With coteaz I think every GSC list would have at least 2x patriarch + 1x magus(croughling) so that's 8 warp charge + d6 and most times I would use all that warp charge to get summoning anyway.

Why would you add plasmacannon henchmen? It gets expensive very fast and there is not a lot that plasmacannons can handle better then my acolytes/metamorph's. I also like the option to 'go into the shadows' first turn and start playing the second turn. With plasma henchmen on the field the would die right away.

I figured I would want to be able to shoot things that deepstrike near Coteaz. Attaching him to a squad of servitors would give him something to shoot at. Ultimately I think it's too much work though, I plan on just spamming Sub-T formations.

I've got a Kill Team tournament on Tuesday, not particularly hardcore, and expecting to see a good variety of factions in the mix.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to run the 14 Genestealer configuration (below), what do we think? Has anyone had much KT experience with GSC?

Genestealer (Leader) /w Scything Talons
Genestealer (Specialist) /w Assault Grenades
Genestealer (Specialist) /w Shred
Genestealer (Specialist) /w Rage
Genestealer x 10

199 total

Everything gets a roll on the Cult Ambush table, so there is every possibility that with the first turn I could deal a lot of damage to a small, elite force right off the starting line.

The 5++ and Stealth should also be pretty handy.

Patriarch Phyrx wrote:
I've got a Kill Team tournament on Tuesday, not particularly hardcore, and expecting to see a good variety of factions in the mix.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to run the 14 Genestealer configuration (below), what do we think? Has anyone had much KT experience with GSC?

Genestealer (Leader) /w Scything Talons
Genestealer (Specialist) /w Assault Grenades
Genestealer (Specialist) /w Shred
Genestealer (Specialist) /w Rage
Genestealer x 10

199 total

Everything gets a roll on the Cult Ambush table, so there is every possibility that with the first turn I could deal a lot of damage to a small, elite force right off the starting line.

The 5++ and Stealth should also be pretty handy.

I think kill team can be fun if everybody stick to a balanced list with a bit of shooting and close combat. If you go for a competitive list then you will get a lot of 'paper/rock/scissors' situations. This is a very straightforward 'in your face' genestealer list and it will wreck a lot of basic list's but a sucky cult ambush could mean you end up coming in small chunks and taken down.

- 8 screamers
- chimera filled with shootie Inquisitor henchmen
- tau suits with burst cannons and flamers

Lot of good KT lists out there.

I think I would rather go for a neophyte unit (shotgun/grenade launcher/stubber) + metamorph's. Metamorph's can be equipped with claw or whip and are much cheaper so that means more bodies and more cult ambush rolls. 2 hand flamers can also bring down heavy infantry lists and every '5' result on the cult ambush gives you free shooting.

Yeah I wouldn't roll Genestealers for Kill Team... Better off going Metamorph and Acoyltes, WIth hand flamers

Just because with the Cult ambush, you have a 1/6 chance of the genestealer actually doing anything the turn they arrive .. with the others you will be able to do something on pretty much all of the rolls

GodDamUser wrote:
Yeah I wouldn't roll Genestealers for Kill Team... Better off going Metamorph and Acoyltes, WIth hand flamers

Just because with the Cult ambush, you have a 1/6 chance of the genestealer actually doing anything the turn they arrive .. with the others you will be able to do something on pretty much all of the rolls

Realise that acolytes and metamorph's only get infiltrate from the formations so no deployment cult ambush in a kill team game. I also think the goliath truck could be a good addition to a kill team.

10 neophytes
2x grenade launcher

goliath truck

8 metamorph+ 2x claw upgrade + 2x whip upgrade + 2x hand flamer

shogun wrote:

Realise that acolytes and metamorph's only get infiltrate from the formations so no deployment cult ambush in a kill team game. I also think the goliath truck could be a good addition to a kill team.

Well yeah that is true, but it isn't hard to just 'Return to the Shadows' first turn

GodDamUser wrote:

shogun wrote:

Realise that acolytes and metamorph's only get infiltrate from the formations so no deployment cult ambush in a kill team game. I also think the goliath truck could be a good addition to a kill team.

Well yeah that is true, but it isn't hard to just 'Return to the Shadows' first turn

No model in KT is ever allowed to return to ongoing reserves by any means. So the only models who get to cult ambush are genes and potentially a single specialist who you give the infiltrate trait. Given that, the stealer KT is perfectly solid imo - I have also had success with a pseudo-guard KT using a chim, 2 armoured sents (all with ML) and some neophytes. Other than that I think the best options are a gunline neophyte horde, or using transports to rush the enemy - 2 goliaths and 12 acolytes fits.

Benlisted wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:

shogun wrote:

Realise that acolytes and metamorph's only get infiltrate from the formations so no deployment cult ambush in a kill team game. I also think the goliath truck could be a good addition to a kill team.

Well yeah that is true, but it isn't hard to just 'Return to the Shadows' first turn

No model in KT is ever allowed to return to ongoing reserves by any means. So the only models who get to cult ambush are genes and potentially a single specialist who you give the infiltrate trait. Given that, the stealer KT is perfectly solid imo - I have also had success with a pseudo-guard KT using a chim, 2 armoured sents (all with ML) and some neophytes. Other than that I think the best options are a gunline neophyte horde, or using transports to rush the enemy - 2 goliaths and 12 acolytes fits.

Ah, did not know that. If you cannot go into the shadows then I would not rely on cult ambush at all. With 14 genestealers only 9/10 would come close and if the didn't get first turn the enemy would just shoot down the two genestealers that roll a 6 result. After that the remaining genestealers can only move close and get shot in the face next turn, and everything falls apart.

Then I would go for this:

Neophytes (lasguns) + 2x grenade launcher + 2x heavy stubber
8 acolytes + 3 hand flamers.

goliath

Put 8 acolytes + 2 assault weapon neophytes in the goliath and move 6 inch forward and keep blasting away. This gunboat can always drop out 8 acolytes with rending if something get's to close.

shogun wrote:

Ah, did not know that. If you cannot go into the shadows then I would not rely on cult ambush at all. With 14 genestealers only 9/10 would come close and if the didn't get first turn the enemy would just shoot down the two genestealers that roll a 6 result. After that the remaining genestealers can only move close and get shot in the face next turn, and everything falls apart.

Then I would go for this:

Neophytes (lasguns) + 2x grenade launcher + 2x heavy stubber
8 acolytes + 3 hand flamers.

goliath

Put 8 acolytes + 2 assault weapon neophytes in the goliath and move 6 inch forward and keep blasting away. This gunboat can always drop out 8 acolytes with rending if something get's to close.

In the meta I play, you get to pick your leader trait, so maybe having 4+ seize at will makes 14 genes more viable.. And of course you are playing with luck a bit, but generally you can get 2/3 pf your outflankers close to the enemy at least, so a 2 isn't too awful, and if you drop genes in ruins they get a 3+ cover save, which is easily enough to let a good amount survive a few rounds of shooting. It is an extremely all or nothing KT, but one that can work quite well I think!

So after Adepticon and 8 games played with GSC I was faced with a situation (FYI one was during the Warhammer TV stream, we were luckily enough to be broadcasted Saturday night!).

Twice I had the opponent castle up in a corner, and really could have used some serious ranged firepower or artillery to make them disperse. Has anyone had any luck with guard artillery?

I like the concept of the guard artillery formation or even an allied CAD, but I'm afraid with my GSC tactics of fading in and out, it will be left exposed. Also the points investment would probably need to be 500+ points.

If I break down my list to the core, the brood cycle is around 500 points and I take two sub-T's at around 275 points a piece. Throw in 2 characters and that puts my core in around 1250 give or take. I guess that might leave me enough room to put a semi-effective guard position down. Thoughts?