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2017/07/26 13:06:47
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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Entropy Tango wrote:
I do really enjoy the Ynnari background, had great success with them in 7th, would rather not go back to CWE. Any suggestions from you guys? What would a competitive 1k Ynnari list look like in your eyes?
I hope to never get a competitive 1K Ynnari list in my eyes.
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2017/07/26 13:12:00
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yvraine is plenty great and more than just a reaper double tap.
Word of the Phoenix is 18 inch range so she can still cast from backfield.
With her special rule of gaining wounds back she is more durable than she looks unless they are able to take her out in one round, which is quite tough.
As with any psyker though she is primarily support so it depends on the rest of your army as to how much you will benefit from her.
Tho even without word of the Phoenix she can double smite with her gaze even being targetable which is great for sniping out characters and finishing off vehicles etc. and she is no slouch in combat either.
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2017/07/26 13:17:06
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Screaming Shining Spear
Russia, Moscow
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Oh right, I forgot she bathes in blood of virgin elfs and regenerates. I am even more inclined to put her closer to front lines now.
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2017/07/26 13:57:15
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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Hmm I may need to try and find more wave serpents then, since as I said the two I found were from 6th or 7th and were assembled with scatter lasers (and I don't have the weapon sprues anyways, like I said got them in a trade), and I'm always afraid of magnetizing that I'm going to destroy the model. Of course, Wave Serpent kit is out of stock right now on GW web site...
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- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame |
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2017/07/26 14:14:12
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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WYSIWYG is really loosely enforced everywhere I play. I have a WS with scatter lasers glued on that I just use as Shuriken Cannons all the time. Most non-Eldar probably don't even know the difference.
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2017/07/26 14:44:50
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Screaming Shining Spear
Russia, Moscow
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I know some ways of completely ruining a model including mom's nail polish remover, and drilling small holes is not one of them.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/26 15:15:15
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2017/07/26 15:20:05
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Deranged Necron Destroyer
UK, Midlands
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I've just changed my Serpents to have all Shuriken Cannons. It's the third time I've changed loadout over the last 10 year or so. No magnets or pins, I just snap them off every time, its pretty easy on Serpents.
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2017/07/26 15:24:00
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Wayniac wrote:What would be a good loadout for wave serpents? I need some since my army is all foot right now and it sucks, but I have two I got in a trade that were built from a past edition with scatter lasers glued to the turret (i.e. I can't remove it without breaking the model). Can these work, or should I just buy a new kit and build it modular or just with Shuriken Cannons to be cheap?
Triple shurican cannon is a very good loadout as it is cheap but still allows the Serpent to put out a respectable 9 S6 shots at up to 24". Importantly, they are Assault rather than Heavy meaning the Serpent's firepower is not degraded when it moves unlike many vehicles. You can even shoot after advancing if you need that burst of speed. Vectored Engines on a triple Shuricannon build can be a neat trick but works best against low BS armies like Orks.
Brightlances are good too as the AP-4 means anything short of a Land Raider is getting no save. Scatter lasers are in an uncomfortable middle-ground now. They have more shots than Shuricannons but the -1 to hit when moving means that frequently won't translate into more hits (although the longer range can be useful). Having said that, Scatter lasers only cost slightly more than Shuricannons and the WS is such a good platform that you won't exactly be penalising yourself by taking them.
Spirit Stones are a good investment if you have the points spare as they will normally save a couple of wounds over the course of a typical game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/26 21:06:55
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. |
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2017/07/26 16:20:07
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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So what I'm hearing is: Use the two I have, proxy maybe, try them out and get mobile
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- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame |
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2017/07/27 02:22:27
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Screaming Shining Spear
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Karhedron wrote:Importantly, they are Assault rather than Heavy meaning the Serpent's firepower is not degraded when it moves unlike many vehicles. You can even shoot after advancing if you need that burst of speed. Vectored Engines on a triple Shuricannon build can be a neat trick but works best against low BS armies like Orks.
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just remember that most elder support/vehicles do not have Battle Focus, so if you use Advancing move you still suffer the -1 for using Assault weapons like every other race.
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koooaei wrote:We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice. |
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2017/07/27 12:10:01
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Agile Revenant Titan
In the Casualty section of a Blood Bowl dugout
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admironheart wrote: Karhedron wrote:Importantly, they are Assault rather than Heavy meaning the Serpent's firepower is not degraded when it moves unlike many vehicles. You can even shoot after advancing if you need that burst of speed. Vectored Engines on a triple Shuricannon build can be a neat trick but works best against low BS armies like Orks.
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just remember that most elder support/vehicles do not have Battle Focus, so if you use Advancing move you still suffer the -1 for using Assault weapons like every other race.
I think the idea is more that you actually can still shoot with Assault weapons after advancing, and Vectored Engines give your opponent a -1 to hit if you advance. So you can shoot, with a penalty, but give your opponent a penalty as well. Good if you need the Serpent to survive an extra turn for whatever reason and, of course, it doesn't affect the shield if you choose to shoot that.
Speaking of vehicle upgrades, spirit stones seem to me to be a steal for 10 points, especially considering how durable Serpents already are, but I find I can never quite find the usually at least 30 points for the Serpents I'm fielding. Should I try and find those points?
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2017/07/27 12:19:14
Subject: Re:Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Executing Exarch
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Spirit Stones are fairly strong as on average its another 2W, plus limited protection against Mortal Wounds, and at 10pts each its bordering on auto-take
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"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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2017/07/27 12:38:15
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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I too find that I am a few points shy of getting both Vectored engines AND Spirit stones. My decision usually comes down to how many deployment drops I'll have. If I have few enough that I think I'm likely to be going first, I'll do VE, since I should have a turn to "activate" them. if I have a lot of drops, I'll that SS since they are always "on". Speaking of, what HQ's do you guys think I should take in a Ynnari list built to have as few drops as possible? I'll be taking 2x 5 D-scythe WG, 7 Fire Dragons, 3 Serpents, 2 hemlocks and a Razorwing (cheapest Flyer I could take to get +1CP) I could fit Yncarne in that list, or Yvraine, a Farseer & bump the WG to 6 each Yncarne provides some nice melee as well as a surprise element (where will she pop up next? try not to kill my units near you) Yvraine gives the same powers, but can embark in a WS, thus less drops. The Farseer also adds some versatility to the list, namely Guide (for Dragons) and Doom. Having more WG is also great, especially if it gives them enough extra wounds to kill a unit and thus Soulburst -
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 12:46:09
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2017/07/27 13:07:00
Subject: Re:Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Turnip Jedi wrote:Spirit Stones are fairly strong as on average its another 2W, plus limited protection against Mortal Wounds, and at 10pts each its bordering on auto-take
I don't find this to be true for triple cannon Serpents. Yes, it makes them 20% more durable for 7% more points, but they don't need to be more durable. They're already only paying 11 points per T7 3+ wound with resistance to multi-damage weapons. Their downside is just that their shooting is unimpressive. Most opponents are not going to bother shooting at most of your Serpents anyway, provided you're giving them any better targets, such as flyers or literally anything else that's not a Serpent.
In my experience, maybe my opponent shoots at one of my Serpents on their first turn. Maybe they kill it. But after this they're shooting at the things that were in the Serpents or at my Hemlocks or at whatever else. This means that I'm not really making all of my Serpents more durable by giving them all Spirit Stones. I have to pay to give every Serpent the Stones, but the only actual impact this has on the game before turn 4 is that one Serpent is harder to kill.
Spirit Stones probably make sense on a single Serpent carrying Wraithguard or Fire Dragons while your others carry Guardians. I don't think they make sense on 3 or 4 Serpents.
Edit: And I'd note that Spirit Stones only look okay on a single triple cannon Serpent -- you're getting about as much durability as you're paying for, but it's not like it's a bargain. The easy way to estimate this stuff is to say that if a unit is going to be 1.2 times as durable then you expect to pay the square root of 1.2 times as much for it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 13:12:19
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2017/07/27 13:42:23
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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I was taking spirit stones on everything I could at first, but I just don't roll enough 6's, at least not when it counts. I've started not taking them and saving the points and I haven't really seen a downturn in my durability, even though on paper it's there.
I'm going to skip on spirit stones for a while.
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius
Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar |
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2017/07/27 13:46:21
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
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Gangrel767 wrote:I was taking spirit stones on everything I could at first, but I just don't roll enough 6's, at least not when it counts. I've started not taking them and saving the points and I haven't really seen a downturn in my durability, even though on paper it's there.
I'm going to skip on spirit stones for a while.
This is just such a ridiculous thing to write
Assuming you play the same number of games as everyone else, you roll the exact same number of 6s as everyone else.
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TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.
Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog |
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2017/07/27 14:17:06
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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That is why i wrote it! It makes no sense, but it seems like I cannot make those 6's !
The less ridiculous part is that I don't think I took that much of a durability hit by saving those 10 points per wave serpent.
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius
Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar |
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2017/07/27 14:46:22
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Someone mentioned earlier a nerf to the razorwing jetfighter, but I Can't find anything on the FAQ.
Can someone illustrate me, please?
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2017/07/27 15:04:30
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
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It might be the "nerf" to all flyers - that they don't count towards Sudden Death victory condition? So if your army is loads of razorwings, the opponent just needs to delete the rest to win?
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TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.
Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog |
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2017/07/27 15:15:05
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Screaming Shining Spear
Russia, Moscow
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Necrotoxin missiles became D6.
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2017/07/27 22:34:11
Subject: Re:Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Fixture of Dakka
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Dionysodorus wrote: Turnip Jedi wrote:Spirit Stones are fairly strong as on average its another 2W, plus limited protection against Mortal Wounds, and at 10pts each its bordering on auto-take
I don't find this to be true for triple cannon Serpents. Yes, it makes them 20% more durable for 7% more points, but they don't need to be more durable. They're already only paying 11 points per T7 3+ wound with resistance to multi-damage weapons. Their downside is just that their shooting is unimpressive. Most opponents are not going to bother shooting at most of your Serpents anyway, provided you're giving them any better targets, such as flyers or literally anything else that's not a Serpent.
In my experience, maybe my opponent shoots at one of my Serpents on their first turn. Maybe they kill it. But after this they're shooting at the things that were in the Serpents or at my Hemlocks or at whatever else. This means that I'm not really making all of my Serpents more durable by giving them all Spirit Stones. I have to pay to give every Serpent the Stones, but the only actual impact this has on the game before turn 4 is that one Serpent is harder to kill.
Spirit Stones probably make sense on a single Serpent carrying Wraithguard or Fire Dragons while your others carry Guardians. I don't think they make sense on 3 or 4 Serpents.
Edit: And I'd note that Spirit Stones only look okay on a single triple cannon Serpent -- you're getting about as much durability as you're paying for, but it's not like it's a bargain. The easy way to estimate this stuff is to say that if a unit is going to be 1.2 times as durable then you expect to pay the square root of 1.2 times as much for it.
Agreed on all points. I want my opponent shooting at my Wave Serpents, instead of the things that will actually win the game for me. If they see stacked durability on the things, that makes it less likely to be a target.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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2017/07/27 23:37:17
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Agile Revenant Titan
In the Casualty section of a Blood Bowl dugout
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Galef wrote:Speaking of, what HQ's do you guys think I should take in a Ynnari list built to have as few drops as possible?
If it's a choice between Yvraine and The Yncarne, I'd go Yrvaine every time. I think she's the best Ynnari character overall and, although The Yncarne's melee ability is nice, you're really only taking Ynnari for Strength from Death and Word of the Pheonix, both of which Yvraine provides just fine. If you're focused on minimising drops, that's even more reason to opt for Yrvaine. If you need choices on top of that, go lone Warlocks if you want to save on points, or Farseers on foot if you feel you need the psychic powers. You've got plenty of space in the Serpent with the seven fire dragons to fit any extra characters without adding to your drops.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 23:39:45
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2017/07/28 00:44:58
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Screaming Shining Spear
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I think spirit stones work on serpents with EML and Bright Lances. Your opponent will get tired of those at some point.
I rarely take them for my rush assault, very much needs to get there serpents. I usually take Star Engines so that I can get my wraithguard and firedragons at the point I want so they can disembark after my opponent has just a single turn to fire or re deploy.
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koooaei wrote:We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice. |
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2017/07/28 01:55:14
Subject: Re:Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Scared Minmei Fan Club Member
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I played a game against chaos demons running tons of demonettes, horrors, chaos spawns, demon princes how do i deal with this?
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2017/07/28 02:26:44
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So it's predominantly a horde of close combat focused cheap infantry?
Anything with a high rate of fire would be useful. Stuff like shadow spectres or warp spiders then are handy throwing out a lot of shots. Similarly even just guardian defenders can dish out the hurt at short range.
A hemlock will be hard to deal with for an army like that and can really put the hurt on any demon princes.
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2017/07/28 13:40:43
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Scared Minmei Fan Club Member
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Problem is with 12" range guarDian's lose in ranged to horrors and demonettes can easily charge 12 in a turn aND wipe out your squad.I will check out spectre and warp spiders and I think hemlock could be really good against spawns and princes
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2017/07/28 17:09:31
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Can you guys beat IG lists with conscripts? I was hypothesizing this over on another thread, but I have no clue in reality. If not, BA and Eldar might be in the same boat for once.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 17:09:55
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2017/07/28 17:57:02
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Martel732 wrote:Can you guys beat IG lists with conscripts? I was hypothesizing this over on another thread, but I have no clue in reality. If not, BA and Eldar might be in the same boat for once.
I'm all over the other threads on conscripts, but I may as well share what I've learned here specific to Eldar. Nothing flat out beats them, but the same thing that makes them strong (many models benefit from one buff) is also their weakness (debuffs hit many models as well).
Sooo... Phoenix with Nightfire Missile arrays. Conceal (though that's obviously limited to what it can cover). Fliers in general.
I did fly a hemlock behind the conscripts to bust up some tanks and heavy weapons. Even at -2 to hit though (conceal+flier), they did searchlight me and hurt me pretty bad with frfsrf rapid-fire. It's not a bad thing to distract the conscripts with though, seeing as the Hemlock doesn't really care about taking heavy damage. In this case, when it exploded it even killed a commissar! Too bad that guy runs two commissars just in case he wants to split his units up or deal with snipers, and I still lost this game horribly.
I don't use Forgeworld (yet?) so I haven't tried the Phoenix, but it definitely seems like an option to just keep them pinned at -1 BS and then try to ignore them.
I disagree with people who say to use Rangers to kill the commissars. Rangers are so bad at killing things that you have to take 200 points of them per 31 point commissar you want to kill, or at least if you want to do it in one turn. That costs more than the conscripts you're supposed to be making it more efficient to kill...
I've done the math for a bunch of different straight up slugfests at equal points (401 for 100 conscripts +buffs) and all of our non- FW stuff loses badly. Like, really really badly. I say non- FW because I haven't done that math, not because they win.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/28 18:08:22
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2017/07/28 18:03:49
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Welcome to the BA club. I welcome our new IG overlords. At least scatbikes and WK looked badass killing me.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 18:04:11
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2017/07/28 18:09:45
Subject: Eldar in 8th - Blood runs, anger rises, death wakes, war calls!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Martel732 wrote:Welcome to the BA club. I welcome our new IG overlords. At least scatbikes and WK looked badass killing me.
lol yes. The aesthetics are why are started playing Eldar forever ago, and I'm so happy they've gotten even better over time.
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