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2017/11/30 11:54:29
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Its not just Hollywood, if the #metoo has shown anything its that its pretty much society wide.
That it took a long time to come out just shows how much power and special interests are involved. Plus what the victims themselves want to do is important too. The vast majority of sexual assault cases never go public, because the victims don't want it to. Nothing strange about these things only coming out after a long time in that framework.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2017/11/30 21:13:30
Subject: Re:Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
At least the ratio of sexual deviant mustache wearing men to accused predator is still at 1 to 1.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/11/30 21:48:20
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Just Tony wrote:My take on the Hollywood harassment scene is that a social group that portrays and condones hedonism and debauchery doesn't surprise me when they PRACTICE hedonism and debauchery. What surprises me more than anything is that media outlets to report this sort of thing have existed for at LEAST two decades, possibly more, and some of these accusations are only NOW coming out. I've personally known assault and harassment victims, none of them let that gak hit a MONTH before they reported it, up to and including one against a teacher. Shining a light on this is by far the most damaging thing they could do to these predators, yet it's taken THIS long.
The catholic church has had multiple big sexual abuse scandals but they do literary the opposite of "condoning hedonism and debauchery". It's a power thing and you can find it everywhere. That's also why most of the abusers are male, they are just more often in positions of power but there were also a few accusations against women, who were, of course, in positions of power. It has taken this long because the default has always been to ignore (as long as the abuser was profitable for the milieu they worked in) and not believe accusers/victims (that's just sadly on average the default). A snowball finally managed to start an avalanche and now even more victims who were, or felt, powerless and ignored finally found the courage to go public.
2017/12/04 12:18:51
Subject: Re:Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
I just don't know what to think or expect anymore.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
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2017/12/04 13:36:02
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
probably that if an individual is driven enough to achieve a position of power
(which usually comes at a significant cost in terms of treading on people to get there or at best prioritising themselves and their career compared to other things in their life like family, friends etc)
that they are likely to be less empathic, more self centred and so more likely to abuse their power, and more likely to cover up such abused in a competent way.
i'm not saying they will all behave badly, I hope it's a minority, but the same personality traits that help people climb the greasy pole of success are likely to be those that make bad behaviour more likely
2017/12/04 14:26:47
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think if Moore loses the election it will send a strong message that standing by such an individual will damage the party's image while generating no actual gain. What I'm surprised by is how the GOP apparently doesn't see that a successful Moore will lead to them being labelled as 'the party of sexual harassment' in the imminent election cycle. Americans have short memories, but not that short. I can already see the slogan; "'R' stands for 'Rapist'"
Yeah, I think part of it is Republicans not getting that they might be able to produce a culture of denial in Alabama, but you know, that's Alabama. In the rest of the country there's a lot of purple electorates and even some red/purple ones where that will not fly, and Moore will tar everyone in the party. Especially given Moore's failings are in addition to those against Trump.
The flip side to this is the weakness Dems have shown to Franken and Conyers gives Republicans some wiggle room.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just Tony wrote: My take on the Hollywood harassment scene is that a social group that portrays and condones hedonism and debauchery doesn't surprise me when they PRACTICE hedonism and debauchery.
And here again is that super-weird assumption that these allegations are only happening in Hollywood. Far from being only in Hollywood, the bulk of the allegations at this point are probably in the media, and then there's politics on top of that.
It really is like how the pedophile scandal somehow got defined as a Catholic thing, when it happened in all religious institutions, and in lots of non-religious institutions on top of that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Disciple of Fate wrote: That it took a long time to come out just shows how much power and special interests are involved. Plus what the victims themselves want to do is important too. The vast majority of sexual assault cases never go public, because the victims don't want it to. Nothing strange about these things only coming out after a long time in that framework.
Yep. If anyone isn't sure how power can be used to shield powerful people they only have to look at what's happening now. People in positions of weakness like Weinstein, who was a long time past the prime of his career, get outed and universally condemned almost by almost everyone. Meanwhile Franken and Moore are still very important to specific groups in society, so leaders downplay the accusations and the people on the street rally around them, complete with ridiculous conspiracy theories.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/12/05 05:33:19
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2017/12/05 18:35:55
Subject: Re:Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Netflix has been really busy this week. Looks like Danny Masterson has been fired from The Ranch. After this next part of the season releases he will no longer be on the show.
Just Tony wrote: My take on the Hollywood harassment scene is that a social group that portrays and condones hedonism and debauchery doesn't surprise me when they PRACTICE hedonism and debauchery.
And here again is that super-weird assumption that these allegations are only happening in Hollywood. Far from being only in Hollywood, the bulk of the allegations at this point are probably in the media, and then there's politics on top of that.
It really is like how the pedophile scandal somehow got defined as a Catholic thing, when it happened in all religious institutions, and in lots of non-religious institutions on top of that.
Can you show me in my original post where I said anything REMOTELY like I assumed that this was only happening in Hollywood? Go ahead and look, I'll wait here.
Back now? Good, I'll clarify just for you.
My comment was on the actual thread title, you know, "Move Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood". In that context, me expressing a total lack of surprise at this sort of behavior from Hollywood, and more surprise that anyone else was surprised by it fits totally in here, and makes no assumption that assaults and harassment only happens in Hollywood. Hell, Melanie Martinez just got accused recently as well.
Since I started posting in the OT, I've had a few of my posts misinterpreted or flat out twisted out of context, but this takes the cake. And to be frank, you of all people, sebster, I expect better from.
Just Tony wrote: Can you show me in my original post where I said anything REMOTELY like I assumed that this was only happening in Hollywood? Go ahead and look, I'll wait here.
What people choose to focus on is just as important as what they actually say.
I mean, if I asked you about the game last where our team lost 27-3, and your response was a single sentence about how good the team's lonley field goal was, I'd reply that you were being a bit optimistic. If you responded by saying you weren't optimistic, and your comment only focusing on that one good bit from the game shouldn't be taken to mean you didn't have lots of (unstated) opinions about everything else, that'd be a very strange argument.
My comment was on the actual thread title, you know, "Move Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood". In that context, me expressing a total lack of surprise at this sort of behavior from Hollywood, and more surprise that anyone else was surprised by it fits totally in here, and makes no assumption that assaults and harassment only happens in Hollywood. Hell, Melanie Martinez just got accused recently as well.
Dude, that thread title was made almost two months ago. There's been around 800 posts since that opening thread, covering new allegations against people from all walks of public life. Weinstein probably hasn't been mentioned in the last few hundred posts. It's fair to say the conversation has moved on from Hollywood alone.
So maybe this is actually just a case of dropping in to a thread without reading any part of what came before then. If so, sorry I read it the wrong way, but it is then a very clear example of why people should read at least some of the thread before commenting.
Since I started posting in the OT, I've had a few of my posts misinterpreted or flat out twisted out of context, but this takes the cake. And to be frank, you of all people, sebster, I expect better from.
Yeah, I get told that a lot. Sometimes it is fair.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2017/12/06 07:03:27
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
I read through almost all of the thread, my comment was dealing solely with the Hollywood portion of it as that seems to have shocked people more than anything. Clergy from any denomination committing vile acts doesn't surprise anyone anymore, and I haven't been phased by politicians misbehaving since Gary Hart's episode. It's par for the course: live a public life and you will be scrutinized. Do something dastardly, be prepared to be called on it.
Hollywood's been under that auspice for a long time. Casting couch, anyone? I'm seriously entertained that anyone would see this as shocking. I'm shocked they aren't simply trying to make it socially acceptable. THAT is the shocking part.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/06 07:03:58
Just Tony wrote: I read through almost all of the thread, my comment was dealing solely with the Hollywood portion of it as that seems to have shocked people more than anything. Clergy from any denomination committing vile acts doesn't surprise anyone anymore, and I haven't been phased by politicians misbehaving since Gary Hart's episode. It's par for the course: live a public life and you will be scrutinized. Do something dastardly, be prepared to be called on it.
Your read that people only seem shocked by the Hollywood stuff is pretty far from base. If anything its the large number of high profile journalists that seems to have thrown people, if anything. There'd always been rumours, but not like there was in politics or movies.
I'm not sure why you raised the clergy in this thread. That was given as an example of a past scandal, where for many people it came to be seen as a Catholic thing, when it was actually endemic across lots of institutions that took responsibility for kids. It isn't actually being discussed as part of this scandal.
Hollywood's been under that auspice for a long time. Casting couch, anyone? I'm seriously entertained that anyone would see this as shocking. I'm shocked they aren't simply trying to make it socially acceptable. THAT is the shocking part.
Uh huh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/06 09:05:11
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2017/12/06 15:47:46
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Just Tony wrote: I read through almost all of the thread, my comment was dealing solely with the Hollywood portion of it as that seems to have shocked people more than anything. Clergy from any denomination committing vile acts doesn't surprise anyone anymore, and I haven't been phased by politicians misbehaving since Gary Hart's episode. It's par for the course: live a public life and you will be scrutinized. Do something dastardly, be prepared to be called on it.
Hollywood's been under that auspice for a long time. Casting couch, anyone? I'm seriously entertained that anyone would see this as shocking. I'm shocked they aren't simply trying to make it socially acceptable. THAT is the shocking part.
You know "Casting Couch" is pornography, meaning it is staged, right? They are not a part of "Hollywood" and they have much much stricter laws which control how they shoot, who they shoot with, and how money is distributed.
It's kinda like when you rip the bandade off and tell somebody Wrestling is fake.
2017/12/06 16:55:48
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Just Tony wrote: I read through almost all of the thread, my comment was dealing solely with the Hollywood portion of it as that seems to have shocked people more than anything. Clergy from any denomination committing vile acts doesn't surprise anyone anymore, and I haven't been phased by politicians misbehaving since Gary Hart's episode. It's par for the course: live a public life and you will be scrutinized. Do something dastardly, be prepared to be called on it.
Hollywood's been under that auspice for a long time. Casting couch, anyone? I'm seriously entertained that anyone would see this as shocking. I'm shocked they aren't simply trying to make it socially acceptable. THAT is the shocking part.
You know "Casting Couch" is pornography, meaning it is staged, right? They are not a part of "Hollywood" and they have much much stricter laws which control how they shoot, who they shoot with, and how money is distributed.
It's kinda like when you rip the bandade off and tell somebody Wrestling is fake.
I'm pretty sure Just Tony is referring to the "casting couch" aka, "sleep with the producer to get the role" and not casting couch dot com. The Hollywood casting couch is an infamous thing.
Comedienne Whitney Cummings has a joke where she talks about going on two dates on one night because she only had one morning after pill.
The punchline is: "well actually, I had two pills.... but I had an audition the next day."
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/12/06 17:03:37
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Embattled Sen. Al Franken will make an announcement Thursday, his office told reporters, as calls for the Minnesota Democrat's resignation rapidly gained momentum Wednesday in dramatic fashion.
Twenty-four Democratic senators -- 12 female and 12 male including the second-ranking Democrat in chamber -- called on Franken to resign as allegations of sexual harassment against him continue to mount. Republican Sen. Susan Collins also called on Franken to quit.
In a statement on Facebook, New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand wrote: "While Senator Franken is entitled to have the Ethics Committee conclude its review, I believe it would be better for our country if he sent a clear message that any kind of mistreatment of women in our society isn't acceptable by stepping aside to let someone else serve."
RELATED: Army veteran says Franken groped her during USO tour in 2003
Sens. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Patty Murray of Washington, Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, Kamala Harris of California, Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Maria Cantwell of Washington, Dianne Feinstein of California, Tammy Duckworth of Illinois and Mazie Hirono of Hawaii also joined in the call for Franken to resign.
Sen. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania was the first male Democratic senator to call on Franken to resign just after noon Wednesday. Sens. Joe Donnelly of Indiana, Michael Bennet of Colorado, Ed Markey of Massachusetts, Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Ron Wyden of Oregon, Martin Heinrich of New Mexico, Sen. Tom Udall of New Mexico, Tom Carper of Delaware, Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Sherrod Brown also called for Franken to step down. Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois -- the Democratic whip -- also called on Franken to resign just before 1 p.m. ET.
Notably absent was Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York. "No comment at this point," Schumer said entering a lunch Wednesday.
The Senate Ethics Committee is investigating Franken following an account described by Leeann Tweeden, a morning news anchor on KABC radio in Los Angeles, which described Franken groping and forcibly kissing her during a USO tour in 2006, before Franken became a senator.
After that initial account, several other women came forward to say Franken inappropriately touched them. Franken has repeatedly apologized about behavior that he said "crossed a line" for some women. The second-term senator has also said that he has taken thousands of photos with people over the years and that while he doesn't remember specific pictures or campaign events, any inappropriate behavior was unintentional.
At least six women -- three named and three unnamed -- have accused Franken of inappropriately touching them. The most recent accusation came in a Politico report Wednesday, in which, a woman who chose not to be identified alleged Franken tried to forcibly kiss her after a taping of his radio show in 2006. Franken released a statement categorically denying the accusation. "This allegation is categorically not true and the idea that I would claim this as my right as an entertainer is preposterous," the Minnesota senator said. "I look forward to fully cooperating with the ongoing ethics committee investigation." CNN has not verified the accusations in the Politico report.
The calls for Franken to resign come one day after Democratic Rep. John Conyers of Michigan announced he would retire immediately. Conyers had also faced multiple allegations of sexual harassment by former employees, accusations Conyers vehemently he denied.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/06 19:49:17
2017/12/07 19:18:22
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
I heard Cheryl Sandberg (Of Lean In fame) talking about an inevitable "backlash" that will come from the #MeToo movement. Has anyone else read other articles on this subject?
Also, Time Magazine makes #Me Too person of the year.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/07 21:02:26
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2017/12/07 22:20:19
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Easy E wrote: I heard Cheryl Sandberg (Of Lean In fame) talking about an inevitable "backlash" that will come from the #MeToo movement. Has anyone else read other articles on this subject?
That type of "backlash" always happens but it's just a convenient excuse for the people who feel attacked to fight back. Maybe their behaviour was already edging toward the inappropriate or they don't like that they won't be able to behave like an donkey-cave to others without getting pushback anymore. It's the epitome of privilege if the marginalised standing up for themselves feels to you like you are the one being oppressed here.
It's similar to how some people worry that if you call racists people racist "they'll actually become racist" (or Neo-Nazi, or whatever). Somehow there's this expectation that you have to tiptoe around somebody's bigotry or they's get radicalised (and we don't want that to happen). The truth is those people were already scum but they just didn't like being labeled as such and like to think of themselves as being good people. Nothing really changes when you call them out, it's just easier to see who they were all along.
2017/12/08 02:05:48
Subject: Re:Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
I'll be sorry to see Al Franken go. I thought he was doing good work... but he robs the Democrats of moral authority to call anyone else out and had become a a liability, and that's before we get into the morality of supporting someone who appears to be a serial groper and harasser. I don't know what the exact number of accusers are where I am willing to give a little reasonable doubt to, but it's a number less than 7. Clinging to a serial sex offender just because they are politically useful is pretty much exactly what Roy Moore defenders are doing in spirit if not in degree.
Ouze wrote: I'll be sorry to see Al Franken go. I thought he was doing good work... but he robs the Democrats of moral authority to call anyone else out and had become a a liability, and that's before we get into the morality of supporting someone who appears to be a serial groper and harasser. I don't know what the exact number of accusers are where I am willing to give a little reasonable doubt to, but it's a number less than 7. Clinging to a serial sex offender just because they are politically useful is pretty much exactly what Roy Moore defenders are doing in spirit if not in degree.
I'm sorry that Franken turned out to be a serial groper of women, but once I learned that I'm pleased that he's been pressured in to resigning. The Democrats were pretty disappointing how they delayed on Franken and Conyers for that long, but they did get there. It says something that the party that can respond to multiple, credible accusations of sex offenses with 'okay umm... yeah, hang on, uh, yeah okay, I guess they better go' is miles ahead of the alternative.
When a party is willing to cover for a president who not only has nearly 20 credible allegations against him, and a current senate candidate with multiple credible allegations against him by people who were children at the time... Franks must have done something really messed up to think they won't protect him as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mario wrote: That type of "backlash" always happens but it's just a convenient excuse for the people who feel attacked to fight back. Maybe their behaviour was already edging toward the inappropriate or they don't like that they won't be able to behave like an donkey-cave to others without getting pushback anymore. It's the epitome of privilege if the marginalised standing up for themselves feels to you like you are the one being oppressed here.
Thing is, the people forming the backlash aren't necessarily molesters, or even people who might possibly molest one day. Some of them would be, sure, but many wouldn't ever do anything like that. What they are is protective of the social order. Not even necessarily on a conscious level, but on some level they get uncomfortable with the idea of high profile men being able to be challenged and brought down by women. They don't see what's happening and instinctively think of justice, their thought is of chaos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/08 02:37:38
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2017/12/08 03:57:11
Subject: Re:Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Ouze wrote: I'll be sorry to see Al Franken go. I thought he was doing good work... but he robs the Democrats of moral authority to call anyone else out and had become a a liability, and that's before we get into the morality of supporting someone who appears to be a serial groper and harasser. I don't know what the exact number of accusers are where I am willing to give a little reasonable doubt to, but it's a number less than 7. Clinging to a serial sex offender just because they are politically useful is pretty much exactly what Roy Moore defenders are doing in spirit if not in degree.
I'm sorry that Franken turned out to be a serial groper of women, but once I learned that I'm pleased that he's been pressured in to resigning. The Democrats were pretty disappointing how they delayed on Franken and Conyers for that long, but they did get there. It says something that the party that can respond to multiple, credible accusations of sex offenses with 'okay umm... yeah, hang on, uh, yeah okay, I guess they better go' is miles ahead of the alternative.
Rumors are that there are about 30-40 Congressional critters going to be exposed for paying out from those settlement funds...
When a party is willing to cover for a president who not only has nearly 20 credible allegations against him, and a current senate candidate with multiple credible allegations against him by people who were children at the time... Franks must have done something really messed up to think they won't protect him as well.
Gotta be more to the story... so far, I've seen Franks asked some staff member(s) to become surrogacy mother for him and his wife?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mario wrote: That type of "backlash" always happens but it's just a convenient excuse for the people who feel attacked to fight back. Maybe their behaviour was already edging toward the inappropriate or they don't like that they won't be able to behave like an donkey-cave to others without getting pushback anymore. It's the epitome of privilege if the marginalised standing up for themselves feels to you like you are the one being oppressed here.
Thing is, the people forming the backlash aren't necessarily molesters, or even people who might possibly molest one day. Some of them would be, sure, but many wouldn't ever do anything like that. What they are is protective of the social order. Not even necessarily on a conscious level, but on some level they get uncomfortable with the idea of high profile men being able to be challenged and brought down by women. They don't see what's happening and instinctively think of justice, their thought is of chaos.
...that's a rather spot-on description seb.
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2017/12/08 14:20:14
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
The Backlash Ms. Sandberg was referring to was around hiring and promoting women could be hurt as the "Old Boys" network locks ranks and adopts the "Pence" strategy of dealing with the ladies.
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2017/12/08 23:21:13
Subject: Re:Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
sebster wrote:Thing is, the people forming the backlash aren't necessarily molesters, or even people who might possibly molest one day. Some of them would be, sure, but many wouldn't ever do anything like that. What they are is protective of the social order. Not even necessarily on a conscious level, but on some level they get uncomfortable with the idea of high profile men being able to be challenged and brought down by women. They don't see what's happening and instinctively think of justice, their thought is of chaos.
That's true to a degree but I see a lot of people who do (un)intentional borderline soft harassment (or who are donkey-caves online) being wary that this'll make life complicated for them and if that finally makes then reconsider and if it all that exposure leads to more people finding the courage to speak out if somebody else shows that kind of behaviour then that can only be a good thing.
If somebody needs Pence-like rules to feel save in their work environment (or otherwise end up not trusting/hiring/promoting women in the work place) then that says more about them and how they interact with people than about these scandals and their aftereffect.
That was already mentioned a few pages ago when rape culture was mentioned but it's good that people get shocked out of the status quo (that led to this type of behaviour being tolerated in the first place) and are forced to change. Because if that doesn't happen we'll just get another bunch of scandals next year, and the year after that (and people will again be surprised why nobody said anything earlier and why did it take so long to get exposed). Maybe some people need to feel uncomfortable about this to reconsider what is happening around them even if they are not actively and intentionally participating in the harassment.
2017/12/10 02:01:07
Subject: Movie Mogul accusation and the dark side of Hollywood
Easy E wrote:The Backlash Ms. Sandberg was referring to was around hiring and promoting women could be hurt as the "Old Boys" network locks ranks and adopts the "Pence" strategy of dealing with the ladies.
Mario wrote:
sebster wrote:Thing is, the people forming the backlash aren't necessarily molesters, or even people who might possibly molest one day. Some of them would be, sure, but many wouldn't ever do anything like that. What they are is protective of the social order. Not even necessarily on a conscious level, but on some level they get uncomfortable with the idea of high profile men being able to be challenged and brought down by women. They don't see what's happening and instinctively think of justice, their thought is of chaos.
That's true to a degree but I see a lot of people who do (un)intentional borderline soft harassment (or who are donkey-caves online) being wary that this'll make life complicated for them and if that finally makes then reconsider and if it all that exposure leads to more people finding the courage to speak out if somebody else shows that kind of behaviour then that can only be a good thing.
If somebody needs Pence-like rules to feel save in their work environment (or otherwise end up not trusting/hiring/promoting women in the work place) then that says more about them and how they interact with people than about these scandals and their aftereffect.
That was already mentioned a few pages ago when rape culture was mentioned but it's good that people get shocked out of the status quo (that led to this type of behaviour being tolerated in the first place) and are forced to change. Because if that doesn't happen we'll just get another bunch of scandals next year, and the year after that (and people will again be surprised why nobody said anything earlier and why did it take so long to get exposed). Maybe some people need to feel uncomfortable about this to reconsider what is happening around them even if they are not actively and intentionally participating in the harassment.
Okay, I'll bite. "Pence-like rules"? "Pence" strategy? Explain. I'm sure I'll hate myself for it being something well known, but it's faster to simply ask for clarity.
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