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Complete newbie here! I’ve now played 3 games of 40k 8th Edition and getting a little quicker each time. I do however, have the following questions which I hope someone could help me with.
If some models are within cover, and some are not, does the whole unit get the cover advantage, or just single models, or none of the unit at all?
When I target a model, am I targeting the entire unit or just a model I can see? If I'm targeting the whole unit, I presume my opponent allocates the wounds to his models. So effectively he could allocate wounds to some of his models which my unit couldn’t even see?
Do wounds and mortal wounds carry over to the next model in the unit?
If there's a member of the unit not in cover, nobody in the unit gets the benefit of cover. If, during wound allocation and casualty removal, you eliminate all the models that aren't in cover, then for resolving the rest of the wounds the remaining models get to claim their cover save.
When you initially target a unit you're targeting the whole unit. If there's one model within range and line of sight then the whole unit it treated that way, so you can affect models out of range or line of sight.
Mortal wounds carry over to other models in the unit, but normal wounds don't. You resolve normal wounds before mortal wounds, so you don't have to worry about shenanigans with someone trying to resolve the mortal wounds first so that they can't be carried over to another model.
Torstein wrote: If some models are within cover, and some are not, does the whole unit get the cover advantage, or just single models, or none of the unit at all?
Cover is conferred on a model basis. You allocate the wound to a specific model, determine if in cover or not, then resolve accordingly.
Torstein wrote: When I target a model, am I targeting the entire unit or just a model I can see? If I'm targeting the whole unit, I presume my opponent allocates the wounds to his models. So effectively he could allocate wounds to some of his models which my unit couldn’t even see?
TLOS works at unit level. However, eligibility to attack is determined on a model basis. Wound allocation doesn't need TLOS.
Torstein wrote: Do wounds and mortal wounds carry over to the next model in the unit?
Wounds & mortal wounds carry over. Damage does not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/10 16:29:44
Each model in a unit must be at least partially in cover to even be considered in cover, and even only infantry would get cover and everything else has to have 50% obscurement as well.
You target a unit, if you see a model you can target the unit. And your opponent allocates wounds to any models in the unit, if its a multi-wound model all wounds must go to that model until its dead before allocating to a new model. Yes allocating to models you can't see is fine.
Wounds are allocated to a unit, damage is model specific and that part doesn't carry over.. if a lascannon fries a single marine... thats it. Mortal wounds are allocated to a unit so in a sense they carry over.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/10 16:31:28
Torstein wrote: If some models are within cover, and some are not, does the whole unit get the cover advantage, or just single models, or none of the unit at all?
Cover is conferred on a model basis. You allocate the wound to a specific model, determine if in cover or not, then resolve accordingly.
Torstein wrote: When I target a model, am I targeting the entire unit or just a model I can see? If I'm targeting the whole unit, I presume my opponent allocates the wounds to his models. So effectively he could allocate wounds to some of his models which my unit couldn’t even see?
TLOS works at unit level. However, eligibility to attack is determined on a model basis. Wound allocation doesn't need TLOS. If all of his units can see & are in range to 1 model in your unit, he can shoot at the entire unit with all of his models.
Torstein wrote: Do wounds and mortal wounds carry over to the next model in the unit?
Wounds & mortal wounds carry over. Damage does not.
Sazzlefrats wrote: Wounds are allocated to a specific model and don't carry over.. if a lascannon fries a single marine... thats it. Mortal wounds are allocated to a unit so in a sense they carry over.
Wound carries over. Damage does not.
Sazzlefrats wrote: if its a multi-wound model all wounds must go to that model until its dead before allocating to a new model.
You're not required to allocate wounds to multi-wound model first. Wounds must be allocated to any model that has any wounds missing first (i.e. a 2W model took 1 damage and is now at 1W.)
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 16:36:17
Torstein wrote: If some models are within cover, and some are not, does the whole unit get the cover advantage, or just single models, or none of the unit at all?
Cover is conferred on a model basis. You allocate the wound to a specific model, determine if in cover or not, then resolve accordingly.
That doesn't sound right, can you show the quote from the rulebook?
BTW . I agree the opponent can choose to start allocating damage to any model in their unit, if... its a multi-wound they have to stay with that model until its dead.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 16:47:37
Torstein wrote: If some models are within cover, and some are not, does the whole unit get the cover advantage, or just single models, or none of the unit at all?
Cover is conferred on a model basis. You allocate the wound to a specific model, determine if in cover or not, then resolve accordingly.
That doesn't sound right, can you show the quote from the rulebook?
Wound is allocated on a model basis. You cannot confer cover bonus on a model that is outside of a cover.
My mistake:
Q: When determining whether a model benefits from cover, does
the model’s entire unit need to be fully on or within terrain, or
just the model making a particular saving throw?
A: All of the models in a unit need to be at least partially
on or within terrain if any of the models are to receive
the +1 bonus to their saving throw.
Note, however, that it is possible for a unit to gain the benefit
of cover as it suffers casualties during the Shooting phase by
removing those models that are not on, or within terrain. As
soon as the last model that was not on or within terrain is
slain, the rest of the unit immediately starts to receive the benefit
of cover.
If any models in a unit is not fully within cover, the entire unit cannot claim the benefit of cover. However, once the models that were outside of cover is removed as casualty, the moment the entire unit is within or partially within cover gains the benefit of cover.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/10 16:52:39
Wounds inflict Damage. Each point of Damage causes a model to lose one wound. Yes, GW are stupid and overload the word wound.
That's more on GW trying to keep the old terminology instead of changing it around and getting an earful from the veterans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 17:24:22
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Roll to Hit
Roll to (Wound)
Roll to Save
If save is failed, roll (wounds) if it s a (multi-wounds) damage causing weapon and apply damage to the model
Then if you have mortal wounds apply that to the unit.
(see all that wound/wounds thing, 8th edition concept took me a moment to understand too).
Thank you for all the replies. One thing I'm still not clear on is whether I allocate the wounds to an enemy unit, or my opponent allocates the wounds to his own unit?
Torstein wrote: Thank you for all the replies. One thing I'm still not clear on is whether I allocate the wounds to an enemy unit, or my opponent allocates the wounds to his own unit?
The opponent allocates wounds to their models, then attempts the save for the model, one at a time (e.g. if you achieved two wounds, the opponent allocates, attempts a save, then allocates, then attempts a save).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/04 07:59:56
Torstein wrote: Thank you for all the replies. One thing I'm still not clear on is whether I allocate the wounds to an enemy unit, or my opponent allocates the wounds to his own unit?
No one allocates wounds to a unit.
The wounds are allocated to a model, and the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (P. 7 40k Battle Primer).
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Torstein wrote: Thank you for all the replies. One thing I'm still not clear on is whether I allocate the wounds to an enemy unit, or my opponent allocates the wounds to his own unit?
No one allocates wounds to a unit.
The wounds are allocated to a model, and the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (P. 7 40k Battle Primer).
For being that pedantic, you might've wanted to double-check your words.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Torstein wrote: Thank you for all the replies. One thing I'm still not clear on is whether I allocate the wounds to an enemy unit, or my opponent allocates the wounds to his own unit?
No one allocates wounds to a unit.
The wounds are allocated to a model, and the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (P. 7 40k Battle Primer).
For being that pedantic, you might've wanted to double-check your words.
I did, you allocate to a model, not to a unit.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Torstein wrote: Thank you for all the replies. One thing I'm still not clear on is whether I allocate the wounds to an enemy unit, or my opponent allocates the wounds to his own unit?
No one allocates wounds to a unit.
The wounds are allocated to a model, and the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (P. 7 40k Battle Primer).
For being that pedantic, you might've wanted to double-check your words.
I did, you allocate to a model, not to a unit.
Fragment.
I did. You allocate to a model, not to a unit.
I did - you allocate to a model, not to a unit.
Torstein wrote: Thank you for all the replies. One thing I'm still not clear on is whether I allocate the wounds to an enemy unit, or my opponent allocates the wounds to his own unit?
No one allocates wounds to a unit.
The wounds are allocated to a model, and the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (P. 7 40k Battle Primer).
For being that pedantic, you might've wanted to double-check your words.
I did, you allocate to a model, not to a unit.
Fragment.
I did. You allocate to a model, not to a unit.
I did - you allocate to a model, not to a unit.
etc.
I am not even sure what you mean.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Good lords people. Stop with the pedantry and syntax fights. A new player is asking for help and this side-fight you’re having is just diluting the utility of this forum.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
So for example, if one model in a unit of space marines has a plasma gun, I can't target that model? I have to target the unit, then my opponent allocates the wounds to models within the unit, which may not neccessarily be the model with the plasma gun.
i.e., there's no way to target a specific model within a unit.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
So for example, if one model in a unit of space marines has a plasma gun, I can't target that model? I have to target the unit, then my opponent allocates the wounds to models within the unit, which may not neccessarily be the model with the plasma gun.
i.e., there's no way to target a specific model within a unit.
That correct?
Correct, there is no way (I can remember anyway) for an attacker to target a specific model within a unit. Not even the mighty Vindicare Assassin can do that anymore.
Yes it means that the Plasma Trooper is always the last to die, but you can handwave it away as his brothers committing Tech Heresy and picking up the Plasmagun after he dies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 13:48:46
tiny correction, there is alteast one psychic power that can target models within a unit and snipe out a specific one, Mental Onslaught from GeneStealer Cult.
Model targeting specific abilities exist, but they are very rare and almost always very circumstantial. I don't think there are any shooting attacks that do this apart from maybe obscure FW stuff, but nothing I can recall.
Outside of the gene stealer cult power, I believe the SM wrath of the ancients might work in tis fashion?
From memory you draw a line from your psyker model to enemy model within 3d6" and the models in affected line suffer MW. Not sure on the exact wording so could be wrong.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: Model targeting specific abilities exist, but they are very rare and almost always very circumstantial. I don't think there are any shooting attacks that do this apart from maybe obscure FW stuff, but nothing I can recall.
Outside of the gene stealer cult power, I believe the SM wrath of the ancients might work in tis fashion?
From memory you draw a line from your psyker model to enemy model within 3d6" and the models in affected line suffer MW. Not sure on the exact wording so could be wrong.
That would be 'Fury of the Ancients' and you misremember the rule:
If manifested, select one enemy model that is within 12" of and visible to this psyker. Draw the shortest possible imaginary straight line, 1mm wide, between this psyker’s base and that model’s base; the selected model's unit and each other enemy unit that this line passes across suffers 1 mortal wound.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Eldar- 4436 pts
