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Now I know the imperial fists supplement isn't out yet but we know their chapter tactics currently.

IF: ignore cover, bolt weapons to hit 6's scores a extra hit.

IH: 6+FNP, overwatch on 5+,models with damage tables considered to have double the number of wounds remaining when determining what row to use on the damage table.
+ (Combat Doctrine - Calculated Fury: Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, models with this ability do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons. In addition, when resolving an attack made with a Heavy weapon by a model with this ability, re-roll hit rolls of 1.) This is really helpful to.

Now for a gun line competitive army what would you suggest in the current meta would be more competitive?
I will have a mixture of infantry and vehicles (if I was going more vehicle heavy then yes I would choose iron hands) but I would imagine imperial fist centurion devastator and aggressor squads with bolt weapons must chew infantry up ignoring cover with all them shots plus extra hits on 6's

What are people's opinions on this please?

the Imperial Fists codex could change things so I'm taking a guess here, but I belvie if you want to run mostly tanks Iron Hands will be better, Imperial Fists will likely be slightly more infantry focused, with bolters being emphisised.

Yeah that's my thinking to. IF more infantry focused as compared to IH being more vehicle focused

I think iron warriors agressors and so are overlooked because of 5+ and possibility to 4+ overwatch they might be really good. 6 of them in a vehicle based gunline could be a thing as they are typicly weak to hordes. Combined with chapter master re rolls, 5+ invuln and 6+ fnp they should be quite resilient.

Imperial fist terminators are harsh, imagine 30 of them unloading 120 bolter shots and 12 missiles on get go with bolter discipline, doctrine, ignore cover, exploding sixes + all the possible traits, relics and extra rules from the upcoming book.

When used together with terminator armoured chapter master, that thing seems utterly brutal.

We do obviously have to wait and see what's in the fists book. For now though, it seems fair to say that they're better for infantry and Iron Hands are better for tanks.

A massive part of what makes Iron Hands good is the -1 damage aura relic. Combined with the 5++ and ability to repair vehicles it means you can have a gunline army that doesn't automatically lose to another gunline, if it goes second. Their super doctrine is good too, though repulsors don't benefit as much as some things, as they already have potms.

On the other hand, wanting to stay in devastator doctrine generally makes their infantry worse than other marines. Snipers and stalker bolt rifle guys are the obvious exception here, and there are units like infiltrators that you're not really taking for their firepower. So there's still plenty you can do.

Ultimately we just have to wait and see. I've got a lot of Crimson Fists and I really like the army. I've also got a lot of grey plastic that I might make into a whole new iron hands army, if they turn out to be as good as they seem.

If Imperial Fists are a Devastator Doctrine faction I'll be surprised, as their whole schtick has typically revolved around bolters and their bolter drill.

 Crazyterran wrote:
If Imperial Fists are a Devastator Doctrine faction I'll be surprised, as their whole schtick has typically revolved around bolters and their bolter drill.

True, kind of. That's one of their schticks. Another is never giving up (even when they should) and there's another thing about sieges - either in attack or defence. They are schtick-heavy.

Also, a chapter's super doctrine doesn't necessarily have to just be more of the same thing as their main doctrine. So RG's main doctrine is being sneaky, but their super doctrine makes them kill characters. Iron hands main doctrine makes them tough but their super doctrine makes them mobile/accurate. So just because the main doctrine for fists works on their bolt guns there's no reason to expect the super doctrine to do the same.

I saw a post claiming they saw a screenshot of the Imperial Fist one being +1 damage to all heavy weapons in dev doctrine. But I cannot find said screenshot or anyone else saying the same anywhere, so I’m skeptical. Plus, that would be insanely overpowered even compared to IH. Gatling cannons would be nuts while heavy bolters would be dirt cheap anti everything.

That's certainly interesting. If true, I'll keep the paint off my Executioners for now. And I'll get some Invictor warsuits, since they get 15 shots each with heavy weapons. I might even finish up the three predators I started working on, then shelved when kill shot went away.

This would have other weird effects. Those eliminator rounds that don't need LoS become quite unpleasant, for example.

I've no idea if it's true of course. The wait to find out is kind of killing me - but mainly just giving me a window where I'm painting Titanicus stuff instead of 40k.

I’m sure hoping it’s fake, cause yeah the implications are so weird. 2dmg sniper rifles from round 1 basically gives them the RG doctrine as well and with that kind of heavy firepower you wouldn’t ever bother going tactical to boost bolters.

The wait does suck, I don’t know what to paint either as unit value fluctuates so much with chapter now. I assume GW is just trying to capitalize off impatient people like me who bought the UM codex to take a look, then bought the IH cause it’s strong, and then might end up buying the IF one too if it’s even stronger. If they did them all at once everyone would only buy 1 supplement.

Yeah something like that. It's a way to space out a release over several months and hopefully get us to buy all the kits. If they'd been a bit cleverer about it they might have released the kits with the codexes they're actually good for.

I haven't bought any though*, because as you say, I don't know which are going to be good.

*Ok I did buy three repulsor executioners... but that was before the codex. I haven't bought the invictors or eliminators that I'm almost certainly going to get. Yet.

bort wrote:
I saw a post claiming they saw a screenshot of the Imperial Fist one being +1 damage to all heavy weapons in dev doctrine. But I cannot find said screenshot or anyone else saying the same anywhere, so I’m skeptical. Plus, that would be insanely overpowered even compared to IH. Gatling cannons would be nuts while heavy bolters would be dirt cheap anti everything.

I really hope it is not that. It would be utterly broken.

So it probably is exactly that...

*sigh*

What, you don’t think a list of 3 Sicaran Punishers, 3 Redemptors, 3 quad HB Mortis dreads, grav devs in a pod, and minimal bolter Scouts says fluffy IF infantry army built around bolter drill? :p

I wish they would hurry up with the fists supplement already. I have shelved my blood angels now and want to know if I'm painting my new marines yellow or black is all??


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also guys what is going to be the best bolter option for intercessor imperial fists to make the most of them exploding 6's. Also with the new options for sergeants how would you equip the sergeants leading these intercessor squads?

it depends IMHO, intercessors are proably a good choice for bolt weapons, botl rifles are always solid and assault bolt rifles are going to have the most volume of fire. infiltrators have that additional wound on a 6 that might dovetail nicely with it.

I know the auto bolt rifle is 1 point extra and drops to 24" range but being assault 3 does it not get the bolter discipline rule then? So wouldn't be able to fire 6 shots at half range or if remained stationary?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With the tactical doctrine up however them auto bolt rifles will always be able to move and get 3 shots still at -1 AP.

ABR is assault, not rapid fire.

IF supplement has to be a little careful - IF bolter Centurions are already crazy, with their extra hits, in cover while standing in the open, and mortal wound strat. They could tip over into ridiculous very easily.

I just brought some bolter aggressors and painting them up IF instead of the centurions. Not quite as much dakka as the centurions but SOOO much cheaper points wise and I can advance and still shoot all my boltguns with the aggressors without the -1 penalty and the centurions only have a 4" move.
+ aggressors can shoot twice when standing still and they have them power fists attacks in CC

My stormcrows custom chapter is eaither IF sucessors or Ultramarines sucessors. if ultramarines my plan 100% is to make bolter fusilade one of their chapter tactics and take a squad or two of agressors. they'll be amazing.