[2,000] - Space Marines - NO PRIMARIS marine list

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**godardc**

Hi guys, owning no primaris, I thought of this list in order to maximize on the mini marines and the CT traits (so many rerolls for my plasmas and HK !).
What do you think about this ?

Spoiler:

**godardc**

I do have a new version, with more bodies and no vehicles. This list is designed to waste every high damage low ap from the opponent who may be expecting vehicles and primaris and to counter hordes lists at the same time.

Spoiler:

Ofc it is not perfect and that's why I am asking you for some reviews or experience if you ever played with / against such a list.

I tried to keep some mobility and counter assault as you can see with the jump pack units.

**Dukeofstuff**

You are going to fight people who are used to fighting both tanks and infantry.
Your infantry is almost as hard to kill as my tanks (sigh). BUT that means your squads are all at risk from longish range, high strength, high penetrance weapons that do heavy damage.

Veterans (both kinds) can carry stormshields, and I would recommend you put these on all of them. Sure, you lose the chainsword swings (swings that matter but are not going to win the game by killing 3 extra gaurdsmen a round) .. but now, you can shrug off lazcannon or melta shots, ignore the fect that that snarky gaurdsman's basilisk ignores all cover and has ap3, just laugh as a 700+ point castellan knight splits its fire across these squads and fails to kill more than like 3 marines in a round. (rather than killing a whole squad with each gun.)
Or laugh in melee combat as that same (now worried) knight steps on your vangaurds 12 times, hits 5, wounds 4, and sees only 2 vets die, then takes another couple thunderhammer whacks to the face. Sure, he ain't dead? but you can bet he will make killing you before melee happens to him again a real priority, and you happen to be real resistant to it. They might tie him up for several rounds, running into buildings and jumppacking out of LOS blocked spots to avoid his incredible overwatch, then seeing the terrified thing lumber away again in rage and fear.
(On that note I would recommend two or even 3 thunderhammer, as being enough to seriously screw up a tank, rather than 1, just enough to be noticed by a tank.)

Just something to consider. I know it used to be vets couldn't all come with a 3++ invuln save, but it seriously is important for your army of infantry to find things that are not going to be smeared into bloodpaste by heavy AP fire. Cause every army has SOME of that.

I ain't a marine player, but I use a lot of crusaders who are not that dissimilar a melee threat to a pile of veterans with stormshields.

That being said, are you really getting what you want out of the sterngaurd? They are not really anti-horde, not really anti-armor. Would a third 5 man squad of combiplasma+stormshield equipped company veterans or a third pack of devastators be more useful? Or a second cohort of vangaurd veterans (dropping each pile to about 7 of them so you can afford 2 thunderhammers in each squad, 5 chainswords, and 7 shields?)

Finally, they serve as a screen for your characters, where a scout squad caught out of cover and a tac marine 5 man would maybe leave them vulnerable during a gunline's shooting at you.

Someone that plays marines can tell you if this is all a good idea or not, but I assure you I spend a lot of my life watching my most useful and expensive gaurdsmen die to antitank. Special weapons, heavy weapons, command squads? People pick those off at range with battlecannon shots, or crusader knight autocannon, or similar. Would be so cool if they were IMMUNE

**demontalons**

What he said basically. I would drop the sternguard and buy a pod for the company vets. That’s your screen killer when those boys drop down and unload.

Give your VV some storm shields and use whatever points leftover from that on some basic marines for your devestator squads, makes them that much harder to chew through.

**amanwing**

I love this list. I am planing a no primaris list for my BA too.

**Corennus**

Welcome back to the Age of Fifth!

**godardc**

Corennus wrote:
Welcome back to the Age of Fifth!

Thank you, brother ! I have good memories from this age !

**Corennus**

I'd personally go for the first list, because as cool as the vanguards are they will die pretty quickly to D-weaponry, mass fire etc.

**Dynas**

I like the 2nd and echo the need to Drop Pod the Veterans.

**necron99**

I saw the first list and thought "If this is at all competitive I'm in" Back towards the end of 7th I was building up a white scars battle company...so I have a ton of tac squads and vehicles. Then 8E dropped and primaris became a thing and now primaris are the defecto space marine it seems :( So seeing this makes me feel like dusting off my tac squads....

**Corennus**

Everybody thinks that tac squads are dead........

But they're still T4 3+ sv with now really good bolt guns (thanks Rapid Fire!!) and can take a heavy weapon .

Scouts may have sniper rifles, but tacs in razorback is still viable

**Corennus**

With your first list i would change the Rhinos to Razorbacks as you're only taking 5 man tac squads.