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For those not attending the SoCal Open, here’s a peak at a rule being tested by ITC at the 40K event. It limits Vehicles with the “Fly” keyword when placing them on top of ruins. Worthwhile to think about since ITC drives a lot of the tournament FAQS and they rarely back down from their Beta rules. Post copied below for discussion:

Alright everybody, time to get 40k SoCal locked down! We're hitting the wait list with the tickets that have become available so make sure to snag those if you wanted to come before they hit the general public.

We are allowing new material up until the week before the event, the 19th of October. We want to try and allow as much cool new stuff as possible including the new Marine supplements if at all possible.

Also, we will be using the terrain guidelines from LVO with a new addition to counter some of the crazy jenga moves people have been doing with Fly models recently:

"If it sits, it fits.": Vehicles with the Fly keyword may only be placed on a level above the ground floor of a ruin if the entire base fits: meaning the entire base, with no part of it off the ruin, can be legally placed. In the case of models that do not measure distance to and from the base, but use the hull instead, the entire hull of the vehicle must fit.”

40k Lists will be due no later than Monday the 21st of October, and will be submitted in the ITC format via BCP. The registration will be uploaded into BCP in the next week as soon as the wait listers have had a chance to grab tickets.

Thanks and we look forward to seeing everyone at the end of the month!

It will help with janky movement during a game but will have no balance effect what so ever.

Eldar flyers are manoeuvrable to be where ever they want to be anyway.

This hurts Necrons DDA.

What about MONSTERS. Same thing apply?

It also impacts Wave Serpents. Interesting to see what impact this may have.

From an immersion point of view the rule seems weird. From a balance point of view I'm not really sure what problem they're trying to solve and it seems like it could have some unintended consequences given the large number of things that can fly.

Just seems to be a speed/clarity fix, and an extension of the Wobbly Model FAQ to a degree. Place a model only where it fits to avoid discrepancies and arguments in a time-constrained format.

Slipspace wrote:
From an immersion point of view the rule seems weird. From a balance point of view I'm not really sure what problem they're trying to solve and it seems like it could have some unintended consequences given the large number of things that can fly.

Limit number of fly vehicles that can't be charged with zero downsides?

Slipspace wrote:
From an immersion point of view the rule seems weird. From a balance point of view I'm not really sure what problem they're trying to solve and it seems like it could have some unintended consequences given the large number of things that can fly.

Probably not so much balance and more limiting the amount of disputes at the table over where precisely flyers are placed and what direction they are pointing.

This made me laugh.

So that photo breaks the "if it fits it sits" rule right? Because it explicitly states the base/hull of the model can't hang over the edge?

Or is there another layer to that joke? Like is that a photo from one of his games or something?

Well,

As a barely competitive Custodes player, this really helps me. I'm sick of units that are nonchargeable to my melee focused army.

This problem started when they put fly on a tank chasis. Grav should be more like "hover" keyword instead of fly.

balmong7 wrote:
So that photo breaks the "if it fits it sits" rule right? Because it explicitly states the base/hull of the model can't hang over the edge?

Or is there another layer to that joke? Like is that a photo from one of his games or something?

Yes it's a sarcastic joke, the punchline being it clearly doesn't fit the new rule.

I'd like to point out this is a rule for the SoCal Open, not ITC, as the title would imply. The ITC seems to be staying away from instituting a general FAQ this edition.

Rules that FLG puts into place for individual tournaments, such as this, are not meant to be utilized by all ITC events. So Eldar/Cron players can settle down about the "sky is falling OMG!!!!" stuff.

 djones520 wrote:
I'd like to point out this is a rule for the SoCal Open, not ITC, as the title would imply. The ITC seems to be staying away from instituting a general FAQ this edition.

Rules that FLG puts into place for individual tournaments, such as this, are not meant to be utilized by all ITC events. So Eldar/Cron players can settle down about the "sky is falling OMG!!!!" stuff.

ITC is owned by FLG, and the same people run both organizations.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
I'd like to point out this is a rule for the SoCal Open, not ITC, as the title would imply. The ITC seems to be staying away from instituting a general FAQ this edition.

Rules that FLG puts into place for individual tournaments, such as this, are not meant to be utilized by all ITC events. So Eldar/Cron players can settle down about the "sky is falling OMG!!!!" stuff.

ITC is owned by FLG, and the same people run both organizations.

I think the point is FLG can put any rules they want into their tournament packets, but none of those are required to be an ITC event. You don't even need to use their missions to run an ITC tournament.

Which is fine so long as your not naive enough to think any decision they make or put out doesn't get adopted widely.

8th is a joke when it comes to terrain rules.

 Dynas wrote:
This hurts Necrons DDA.

What about MONSTERS. Same thing apply?

No. Just vehicles.

The intent is to make the game better, eliminating the exploitation of a bad game mechanic.

As shown in the pic *next* to a moustachio'd, scoffing, Reecio, <3

... is that Repulsors and other models are being placed in ridiculous places, like single, cat-walk pieces of GW 4e/5e ruins, 3 levels off the ground.

Essentially they become unchargeable.

It's through the interaction of the now, non-existent 'hover/skimmer' rule, which allows those tanks to, you know, 'fly' as opposed to "hover". Which, IMHO, ought to have been a KEYWORD or needs to become one in 8e. The overly ubiquitous FLY KEYWORD rules, the Repulsor -2 charge, and their recent rise to meta popularity have pushed this to the fore. And the couple players who placed their hover tanks in those high spots at ... NOVA, was it?

One thing specific to SoCal open and their other two events, BAO and LVO; the terrain they use provides plenty of upper level space, even for a Wave Serpent, whose foot print is a little more than the Repulsor's (tiny bit wider). For SoCal attendees, it won't matter too much.

To tourneys at large, speaking to you, Red Corsair, if you don't want an ITC rule at your tourney, speak up early, gather your buddies for support and play how you want.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well,

As a barely competitive Custodes player, this really helps me. I'm sick of units that are nonchargeable to my melee focused army.

I feel the same when my Trygon towering OVER the scouts/rangers on the 1st floor of ruins 'cant hit them'...

Gak off with that...

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well,

As a barely competitive Custodes player, this really helps me. I'm sick of units that are nonchargeable to my melee focused army.

I feel the same when my Trygon towering OVER the scouts/rangers on the 1st floor of ruins 'cant hit them'...

Gak off with that...

Yeah I honestly question how playtested 8th edition was before release. A simple fix would be "When measuring range to and from Monsters, Vehicles, and Walkers ignore vertical distances." this would also end the you can't assault my Wave Serpent because your base can't get within 1" scenario. But that causes another issue as it would mean genestealers on the ground floor of a ruin could hit a wave serpent on the top floor of the ruin. BUT they're already starting to restrict vehicles with the fly ability to get on top of terrain. In fact I feel the rule should simply be NO, just remove the exception in the ruins rules for vehicles with the fly rule. IE ALL vehicles must end their move on the ground floor of a Ruin. The current new rules being used at some tournaments prevents them from getting up there anyway unless the entire vehicle fits on the floor...of course that means we'll be seeing ruin's with completely in-tact roofs soon.

Updated: LVO will also be using this rule as well.

It makes no sense why this only applies to vehicles. It's just another rules gap for Tau and Tyranids to exploit.

 Suzuteo wrote:
It makes no sense why this only applies to vehicles. It's just another rules gap for Tau and Tyranids to exploit.

Why would flying monsters be affected by this? Specifically asking why this would matter for Tyranids honestly.

Because generally, bases go where they fit... and only wings or tails extend over them for most Tyranid flying monsters.

Wagguy80 wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well,

As a barely competitive Custodes player, this really helps me. I'm sick of units that are nonchargeable to my melee focused army.

I feel the same when my Trygon towering OVER the scouts/rangers on the 1st floor of ruins 'cant hit them'...

Gak off with that...

Yeah I honestly question how playtested 8th edition was before release. A simple fix would be "When measuring range to and from Monsters, Vehicles, and Walkers ignore vertical distances." this would also end the you can't assault my Wave Serpent because your base can't get within 1" scenario. But that causes another issue as it would mean genestealers on the ground floor of a ruin could hit a wave serpent on the top floor of the ruin. BUT they're already starting to restrict vehicles with the fly ability to get on top of terrain. In fact I feel the rule should simply be NO, just remove the exception in the ruins rules for vehicles with the fly rule. IE ALL vehicles must end their move on the ground floor of a Ruin. The current new rules being used at some tournaments prevents them from getting up there anyway unless the entire vehicle fits on the floor...of course that means we'll be seeing ruin's with completely in-tact roofs soon.

we houserule that. It's stupid that the Trygon (and Knights, stompa, whatever big thing) can lick at the models because they're on eye level but he can't attack. Rulewise it would make more sense to say something like "measure model to model in case of charging units in buildings". That way the genestealer can't attack the flyer on top but the big unit can still hit the scout hiding on 2nd floor. But i'm sure this opens the way to a whole new level of exploitations i can't imagine right now.

Locked for thread necromancy.