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[1000] - Astra Militarum - TAC Cadians, list 1 or 2?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




So I've got a few pick-up games coming up, and I'm trying to decide between to armies.
The main difference between the two is the first uses a vindicare assassin, while the other ditches him and brings two lascannons in command squads, and a bare bones tempestus squad.
List 1
Cadian Battalion
Sanctioned Assassin - 2cp+-pts (vindicare)
HQ
Company commander
-Warlord - STT
-Relic - Laurels of command

Company commander

Troops
3 X Infantry Squad

Elites
2 X Command Squad
-Flamer
-Plasma
-Grenade Launcher x2

Platoon Commander

Heavy Support
Mortar HWT

Supreme Command Detachment
Cadian

Pask (Battle Cannon+Lascannon)

Tank Commander (Punisher+Trip. HB)

Tank Commander (BC + HB)


OR

List 2

Cadian Battalion

HQ
Company commander (STT+LoC)
Company Commander

Troops
3 X Infantry Squad
MT Scions

Elites
2 X Command Squads
-Lascannon
-Plasma
-Grenade Launcher

2 X Platoon Commander

Heavy Support
Mortar HWT

SCD As Above
Cadian
Pask
-Tank Commander
-Tank Commander


My thinking is the assassin is pretty limited in certain matchups, but can be a bit of a beast in certain situations. Maybe too much of a swing?
List 2, the lascannons are a threat that can threaten a wider variety of targets. The Scions can be dropped on the board turn 3 to quickly grab an objective.
Any flaws I might have missed? Please pick holes in it, thanks!
   
Made in nz
Camouflaged Zero





Auckland, New Zealand

I like the second. But why the command squads? Weapons are a bit over the place, guessing it's a bit of wysiwyg?

They're also much more of a target. Id drop them to put specials in the guard and Scion squads.
Also there's too many commanders. You've got a 1 to 1 ratio. Its never that critical to have every unit ordered and some will die anyway. You'll likely have excess orders a lot of the time. I usually go for 60-75% orders for units. With six orderable units I'd look to have 4 orders. You've also got a warlord with STT and LoC, you probably would be fine with just him, (although you'd be tight together). Character assassinations become a bit of a concern so a spare officer is nice. If situations arise where you do need another order you can use inspired tactics

Id be inclined to loose the platoon commanders and command squads and take more infantry squads. I dont think you get as much mileage out of veterans in cadians as you already have a bunch of things to help you hit offsetting the bs benefit. Get some specials and heavies in the infantry squads and some specials in the scions.

You should be able to fit in 4 guard squads with a lascannon and special in each

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/26 05:56:36


If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush

The easy way is always mined

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I keep adding up your list prices and not getting to 1000 iwth either list (and I am assuming you have TEN scions in your barebones scion group).
Is it possible you are using an obselete price list? command squad members are cheaper than they used to be, after chapter approved, and scions don't pay for their hotshots anymore.
If I make certain assumptions about the way you price them, your list b comes out at 998 points, unless I hit a wrong keypad button. With 5 barebones scions.
But I believe it should cost 985 with updated prices, and still, assuming 5 barebones scions.

Anyway.
I suggest a somewhat different set of stuff.
I like scions for their late game shenannigans. So keep that!

Now on to the tweaking..
My way.
Pask is fine, tank commanders are fine, I personally stick heavy stubbers on the tank commanders but that's really just fluff and flavor. but 565 points spent as is, good.
Drop pask and add in third tank commander with the hammer of sunderance, designate the trio as imperial vigilis fist, and you have almost exactly the same boomka output with 45 points fewer spent on the main target tank, tho. (-3 cp, +45 points)
Enough to give yourself some goodies below.

Drop the two platoon commanders, and replace with a third company commander. This is because when running around the board, he can order a troop to movemovemvoe, but ALSO himself, so he can keep up with it. Slush fund grows to 70, but you still issue 6 orders. ( If my math is correct, you started with 15 points unspent, anyway, (I am looking at army B right now). 40 of those poitns will upgrade each of your two fragile command squads to a slightly less fragile full infantry squad, giving you a second battalion. 20 more give you that third lascannon. You still have 2 grenade and 2 plasma to spread over your squads, and 10 points to blow
Your force still has the heavy weapon team with 3 mortars, of course.

So
squad a (plasma) and a mortar
squad b (plasma) and a mortar
squad L1 grenade laungher and lascannon
squad L2 grenade launcher and lascannon
squad L3 lascannon
scions dropgroup 5 scions with hslg's.
HWT 3 mortar teams
This gives you a fairly robust 5d6 indirect fire, 3 lascannon of antitank, and hides the most expensive stuff behind a bunch of ablative wounds.
3 company commanders can pass out a lot of orders, too, and
I assure you this will outperform the pask/two tanks you had before, at a cost of 3 cp and a saving of 45 points spent.

The tank commander who replaces pask hits on average 50 percent harder than pask does, and is thus BETTER, the little noticed sleeper best tank of the cadian (or any gaurd) arsenal. He misses on average 2 shots a salvo, while pask never misses, so people think "oh no, PASK!". But the remaining shots do enough more damage to offset that, and the lascannon in a squad you cab buy with the price difference ends up just gravy on top.

Alternate idea.

A maximally expensive cadian tank trio comes out something like this ... all three tanks configured for range, and designed to be inside the screen that is inside the screens. Ie, no bad touching happens because the punisher gatling needed to be at close range.
pask with BC and LC
TC with HoS and LC
TC with BC and LC
Compared to the 577 points you spent, it gives a hell of a much better long range punch -- mathematically, the hammer of sunderance + a lascannon and the pask battlecannon + a lascannon and the other battlecannon + a lascannon does a LOT more than just pask and a battlecannon with some bolterfire.. Its only a 10 point swap, though.
If you drop the third company commander to a platoon commander, viola, you have it, the same firepower you had before, PLUS the hammer of sunderance AND four more battlecannon, AND 2 extra mortars. There is no way that this is a bad deal! Punisher gatling cannon are great for tallarns to use, but cadians using them are forced to move the tank commander carrying it to get close enough, more often than not, losing the 3bs for all those secondary heavy bolters. Tallarns can also dart back 6 inches after shooting, which is what makes them rather harder to tag with bad touches, but cadian tanks can't -- the cadian special tank order of rerolling number of shots simply doesn't help a cadian punisher gatling at all, and its at its best with a battlecannon that doesn't require short range. Because cadian screens prefer to be at not-melee range, too.

I like this better than I liked the punisher gatling. in the squads idea, a bit. Simply cause it means your tanks are going to be used in a coordinated manner and can mutually support, and your infantry squads are relegated to the painful, but very gaurd, role of ablative meatscreens. Except they now are doing that with lascannon and mortarfire and such. The great part is, although every player in the game "knows" your best unit is pask, it actually isn't, its the hammer. So a lot of people will waste shots killing pask first.
Any army where you can say the sentence "people will waste shots killing pask first, because I have a BETTER pask they don't think about" is a GOOD day.

Anyway, either of these two lists are my suggestions, mostly using the models you are already using, but distributing them a bit differently. If you are wysiwyg and its a punisher gatling? Go with it, but strongly consider upgrading that third tank to be the hammer of sunderance battlecanon relic, anyway.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/10/26 12:21:11


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




My choices are limited with WYSIWYG. I've only got the two lascannon teams, for example. But they would be better off in the Infantry squads?
The min squad of scions are just 4 HS las, and their sgt has a power sword (they're the old kasrkin models)
So there is probably a small discrepancy in the points, due to officers having bolt pistols, and TC Punisher has a HS etc
With both of your feedback suggesting a reworked 2nd list, would something more along these lines be the kinda thing you're thinking?

Cadian Battalion
HQ
Comp Commander (STT+LoC)
Comp Commander

Troop
Infantry Squad - Lascannon
Infantry Squad - Lascannon
Infantry Squad - Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad - Plasma Gun
MT Scions - Sgt w. Power Sword, 5xHSLG, 2xHSVG ----- or should i try and take a Tempestor Prime instead of the extra bodies?

Elites
Platoon Commander (For the mortar Squad)

Heavy Squad
Mortar HWT

SCD
Emperor's Fist Tank Company
Imperial Commanders Armoury -1cp

Pask (BC+LC)
TC (HoS+HB)
TC(Pun+HB+HBspon+HS)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Given orders, the lascannons are MUCH safer in the squads, and being around a second turn to fire more than makes up for the occasional miss from a 3 on BS.

Remember to interlock fields of fire to support their shots -- pask and / or the tank commanders shoot FIRST, cause damage, and then you bring in the lascannon to clean up the enemy after at +1 to shoot. Result is, Pask won't miss, and with full rerolls from orders, a 1 or 2 is rerolled and a 3,4,5,6 are hits. So its like 8/9ths likely for each lascannon to hit, or, basically, most of them.

Good luck
!

Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
 
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