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Hey all,

I've been playing Space Marines generally and have dabbled with most armies. I've recently taken my Crimson Fists to a tournament saturated with imperium/astartes. I found that it's quite deflating to keep facing Marines thematically as I only attend fluffy/semi-competitive tourneys (understandably as they're the poster boys with fancy new rules). So I'm ditching the army and am in two minds about which to go for. I love Quins but the restriction on amount of units I can roll with(I don't soup). However I've also loved the idea of a Monster Mash of nids. Ripper Swarms as troops and basically Fexe's, old one eye and such. Just unsure if it's worth it, I do not want to be the whipping boy of every tourny as I'm fairly competitive.

Are pure Nid Monsters viable?

Much appreciated for your thoughts!

I'd go with 'nids easier to paint up in a nice level (quins paint jobs would be beyond me but I've painted 'nids before and it's easy and fun and I bet contrast paint would work nice on them) and more unit varity. as a space marine player whose considered dabbling with xenos myself, getting used to the sheer lack of units in a army like harliquins would make things hard for me

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd go with 'nids easier to paint up in a nice level (quins paint jobs would be beyond me but I've painted 'nids before and it's easy and fun and I bet contrast paint would work nice on them) and more unit varity. as a space marine player whose considered dabbling with xenos myself, getting used to the sheer lack of units in a army like harliquins would make things hard for me

Hey, well I'm actually a keen painter. Just the monotony of finishing the same vehicles/troops over and over seems dry. The nids could be fun, just have a feeling new marines would blast a Carnifex list to bits

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd go with 'nids easier to paint up in a nice level (quins paint jobs would be beyond me but I've painted 'nids before and it's easy and fun and I bet contrast paint would work nice on them) and more unit varity. as a space marine player whose considered dabbling with xenos myself, getting used to the sheer lack of units in a army like harliquins would make things hard for me

Hey, well I'm actually a keen painter. Just the monotony of finishing the same vehicles/troops over and over seems dry. The nids could be fun, just have a feeling new marines would blast a Carnifex list to bits

Carnifexes are one of the best Nids options right now but still subpar at a tourney level. The recent Open win was the exception that proves the rule. And the second you move away from Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants to other Nidzilla choices... *shudder*. Some of the best sculpts in the business. Some of the worst rules in the business. Seriously, take a look at how a Haruspex does against a 40pt Guardsmen squad. I remember in 7th when a Tyranid Trygon only narrowly edged out a Riptide... in melee...

Screw you, Cruddace.

Personally I'd go with tyranids. But that's just because I want those big monsters

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd go with 'nids easier to paint up in a nice level (quins paint jobs would be beyond me but I've painted 'nids before and it's easy and fun and I bet contrast paint would work nice on them) and more unit varity. as a space marine player whose considered dabbling with xenos myself, getting used to the sheer lack of units in a army like harliquins would make things hard for me

Hey, well I'm actually a keen painter. Just the monotony of finishing the same vehicles/troops over and over seems dry. The nids could be fun, just have a feeling new marines would blast a Carnifex list to bits

I'm a keen painter too, however the smooth checkerboard patterns etc you often see on harliquins are difficult to paint and I personally would enjoy painting a big tyranid monster more. obviously preferances may vary

Nids. Way cooler and looks awesome across the table. They win in a landslide.

All good points. We have a new contender, seen the custom Craftworld army traits. I used to have Iyanden and loved the Wraith Constructs but the rules are so subpar. Now thinking I'll run a Mymeara army with the +1 to charge and Salamander reroll rule....

BrianDavion wrote:

I'm a keen painter too, however the smooth checkerboard patterns etc you often see on harliquins are difficult to paint and I personally would enjoy painting a big tyranid monster more. obviously preferances may vary

If you have a fairly steady hand, the checker patterns aren't that hard to do. Time-consuming, yes, but rather forgiving in that they look good even if they're not perfect.

The best technique (and I think this is shown in the Warhammer TV youtube vid) is to paint the area one colour first. Then, paint lines in one direction with thin black paint, and then in the other direction to create the diamonds. This way, you're just painting lines, rather than trying to freehand tiny diamonds. These lines don't have to be perfectly straight either, and I find that if your diamond shapes aren't perfectly consistent, it's hidden by the curves and bends in the model's limbs anyway.

Give it a try. I was pleasantly surprised by how simple it was, relative to expectations.

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:
All good points. We have a new contender, seen the custom Craftworld army traits. I used to have Iyanden and loved the Wraith Constructs but the rules are so subpar. Now thinking I'll run a Mymeara army with the +1 to charge and Salamander reroll rule....

With a Wraith army, you should look into the traits given by the ''Phoenix rising'' book.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd go with 'nids easier to paint up in a nice level (quins paint jobs would be beyond me but I've painted 'nids before and it's easy and fun and I bet contrast paint would work nice on them) and more unit varity. as a space marine player whose considered dabbling with xenos myself, getting used to the sheer lack of units in a army like harliquins would make things hard for me

Hey, well I'm actually a keen painter. Just the monotony of finishing the same vehicles/troops over and over seems dry. The nids could be fun, just have a feeling new marines would blast a Carnifex list to bits

I'm a keen painter too, however the smooth checkerboard patterns etc you often see on harliquins are difficult to paint and I personally would enjoy painting a big tyranid monster more. obviously preferances may vary

Checkerboards aren't MANDATORY. Nor do nids need to be simple (though complicated hordes of small nids are obviously time consuming). You've always got room to be creative!

So let's say I had a 1500 pt model count of the below:

1 Malanthrope
1 Neurothrope
1 Old one eye
3 Dakka Fex
1 Stonecrusher
1 Screamer Killer
6 Hive guard with cannons
couple ripper swarms for troop choice and some Warriors for Synapse.

Reckon I'd get curbed stomped at a 1500 point highlander pure mono faction tournament? It's one of those things were it's alot of time and money and you want to be able to compete and not be a whipping boy for all the marines

 John Prins wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd go with 'nids easier to paint up in a nice level (quins paint jobs would be beyond me but I've painted 'nids before and it's easy and fun and I bet contrast paint would work nice on them) and more unit varity. as a space marine player whose considered dabbling with xenos myself, getting used to the sheer lack of units in a army like harliquins would make things hard for me

Hey, well I'm actually a keen painter. Just the monotony of finishing the same vehicles/troops over and over seems dry. The nids could be fun, just have a feeling new marines would blast a Carnifex list to bits

I'm a keen painter too, however the smooth checkerboard patterns etc you often see on harliquins are difficult to paint and I personally would enjoy painting a big tyranid monster more. obviously preferances may vary

Checkerboards aren't MANDATORY. Nor do nids need to be simple (though complicated hordes of small nids are obviously time consuming). You've always got room to be creative!

[/img]

gadzooks! it's Custodiquins!

 John Prins wrote:

Checkerboards aren't MANDATORY. Nor do nids need to be simple (though complicated hordes of small nids are obviously time consuming). You've always got room to be creative!

Well, for a Harlie army, I'd take

2x Troupe Master
3x5 Harlies Troops
3x Starweaver

1x Shadowseer
3x5 Skyweavers

This gives you two detachments.
Add some special characters like DJs or a Solitaire.

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:
So let's say I had a 1500 pt model count of the below:

1 Malanthrope
1 Neurothrope
1 Old one eye
3 Dakka Fex
1 Stonecrusher
1 Screamer Killer
6 Hive guard with cannons
couple ripper swarms for troop choice and some Warriors for Synapse.

Reckon I'd get curbed stomped at a 1500 point highlander pure mono faction tournament? It's one of those things were it's alot of time and money and you want to be able to compete and not be a whipping boy for all the marines

I'd question the value of the malanthrope in that list.
The dakkafexes and screamer killer can already take the Spore Cysts upgrade, which it doesn't stack with. OOE plus the neurothrope have character protection. The hive guard will be hiding out of line of sight.
So it's only really the stone crusher that gets any use out of it.
I'd consider putting those points elsewhere.


As for competitiveness, while carnifexes aren't bad, that only really holds true for the shooty variants. Dakkafexes work, but you may be disappointed by the screamer-killer and stone crusher.
Old One Eye is an exception to that rule, as his character protection lets him get across the field and into combat fairly easily, and he's powerful enough to destroy just about anything with a bit of stratagem support.

Other monsters that are worth a look include the Exocrine, which is a rather immobile long ranged gun beast that shreds heavy infantry and light vehicles.
Possibly the Tyrannofex. I'm not a huge fan of it myself, as while it can be powerful, it's very inconsistent. The Acid Spray is a solid choice for its main gun, as it's unaffected by the tyrannofexes poor BS.

With those, you're looking at a tyranid gunline list. Tyranid gunlines work best as either:
1. Kronos, which lets you re-roll 1's to hit when shooting if you don't move. Also giving you access to an anti-psyker stratagem and warlord trait.
2. Jormungandr, which lets you count as being in cover so long as you don't charge or advance. Which means all your big bugs get 2+ saves, as they have little need to advance. It also gives you access to a warlord trait that lets units near your warlord ignore cover when shooting.

Arson Fire wrote:

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:
So let's say I had a 1500 pt model count of the below:

1 Malanthrope
1 Neurothrope
1 Old one eye
3 Dakka Fex
1 Stonecrusher
1 Screamer Killer
6 Hive guard with cannons
couple ripper swarms for troop choice and some Warriors for Synapse.

Reckon I'd get curbed stomped at a 1500 point highlander pure mono faction tournament? It's one of those things were it's alot of time and money and you want to be able to compete and not be a whipping boy for all the marines

I'd question the value of the malanthrope in that list.
The dakkafexes and screamer killer can already take the Spore Cysts upgrade, which it doesn't stack with. OOE plus the neurothrope have character protection. The hive guard will be hiding out of line of sight.
So it's only really the stone crusher that gets any use out of it.
I'd consider putting those points elsewhere.


As for competitiveness, while carnifexes aren't bad, that only really holds true for the shooty variants. Dakkafexes work, but you may be disappointed by the screamer-killer and stone crusher.
Old One Eye is an exception to that rule, as his character protection lets him get across the field and into combat fairly easily, and he's powerful enough to destroy just about anything with a bit of stratagem support.

Other monsters that are worth a look include the Exocrine, which is a rather immobile long ranged gun beast that shreds heavy infantry and light vehicles.
Possibly the Tyrannofex. I'm not a huge fan of it myself, as while it can be powerful, it's very inconsistent. The Acid Spray is a solid choice for its main gun, as it's unaffected by the tyrannofexes poor BS.

With those, you're looking at a tyranid gunline list. Tyranid gunlines work best as either:
1. Kronos, which lets you re-roll 1's to hit when shooting if you don't move. Also giving you access to an anti-psyker stratagem and warlord trait.
2. Jormungandr, which lets you count as being in cover so long as you don't charge or advance. Which means all your big bugs get 2+ saves, as they have little need to advance. It also gives you access to a warlord trait that lets units near your warlord ignore cover when shooting.

Thanks for the tips fella!

Thing with the malonthrope is that it's a synapse character
I can give the Norn crown, thatt will also mean I don't have to pay 30pts for the cysts. I'll need the Neurothrope baby sitting the hive guard for synapse in the back field.

It's a pain with the tournament format as I can only have a single battalion so with OOE taking up a HQ slot I've only got 2 characters with synapse. I've dropped the screamer killer for some zoanthropes for smites and buffs so that's some synapse. But obviously squishy and targetable.

With running all my carnifex as dakka fexes should I really be gun lining? Thought a pressing line of carnifex be quite good for threat saturation with OOE shielded by them?

With OOE pressing and such and only allowed one trait is Kraken not worth it for the advances to all my Fexes?

Another question is do I dump the bone crusher in a tyranocyte to take out a big threat ? Keeps him safe at least

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:

Thanks for the tips fella!

Thing with the malonthrope is that it's a synapse character
I can give the Norn crown, thatt will also mean I don't have to pay 30pts for the cysts. I'll need the Neurothrope baby sitting the hive guard for synapse in the back field.

It's a pain with the tournament format as I can only have a single battalion so with OOE taking up a HQ slot I've only got 2 characters with synapse. I've dropped the screamer killer for some zoanthropes for smites and buffs so that's some synapse. But obviously squishy and targetable.

With running all my carnifex as dakka fexes should I really be gun lining? Thought a pressing line of carnifex be quite good for threat saturation with OOE shielded by them?

With OOE pressing and such and only allowed one trait is Kraken not worth it for the advances to all my Fexes?

Another question is do I dump the bone crusher in a tyranocyte to take out a big threat ? Keeps him safe at least

Synapse isn't very important in a nidzilla list. Monsters don't need to be in the 12" ignore-morale bubble, just the 24" no-instinctive-behaviour bubble. Even if they can't do that, they're only penalised if they try to attack something that isn't the closest unit.

The Malanthrope is 140 points for a character which doesn't really do anything except provide a 3" -1 to hit bubble. That's not cheap, and requires the units in the bubble to stay very close (remember each carnifex is an individual unit after deployment, so they all need to be within 3"). Paying 30 points to give three carnifexes an innate -1 to hit is a much better option. The Malanthrope isn't bad, I just wouldn't run it in a carnifex list.
The Norn Crown can go on the Neurothrope hiding at the back, which will provide a 30" no-instinctive-behaviour bubble, covering most of the table.


Normally I'd recommend you do indeed run a wall of carnifexes that marches forwards. But given the highlander format you mentioned earlier you're restricted to 3 dakkafexes, and if you want more carnifexes you have to take one of the other less good variants. That's not enough to form much of a wall.

Kraken is a very good trait for melee carnifexes, but the problem is that melee carnifexes are not very good. If you decide to run a bunch of melee ones after all, then yes, go Kraken.

Stonecrusher in a tyrannocyte comes down to whether you want to pay 100 points for a drop pod, and whether you feel confident making a 9" charge. Personally I wouldn't.

-1 to hit aura on a character with less than 10 wounds is really good honestly, even if its 3" you only need it on a few units, Carnifex's cant benefit from it if they buy their -1 to hit so they dont need to be within range.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
-1 to hit aura on a character with less than 10 wounds is really good honestly, even if its 3" you only need it on a few units, Carnifex's cant benefit from it if they buy their -1 to hit so they dont need to be within range.

Yep, precisely this. It's a good unit, just not in a carnifex list.