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Now that the new rules in Faith & Fury are openly available on the net, which Marine faction do you think does support a melee playstyle the best?

I suggest to vote based on these considerations:
- Ability to field melee viable characters
- Ability to field melee viable units
- Ability to get into melee combat consistently on turn 1 or 2
- Ability to win melee combat consistently
- Ability to focus army composition on melee units / loadouts (and still win a game)

White Scars are the correct answer.

Where do you feel White Scars outshine the other options?

I've done quite good with DG CC lists and they have a lot of options for that, but they're not even on the list :(

Admittedly, World Eaters or Space Wolves are probably better.

Black Templars. Ork-style charge rerolls, multiple sources of extra charge distance (and notably the most reliable Chaplains to allow that one to go off much more often than others), the ability to lock enemies in combat so they can't just run away, backed up by the powerful Imperial Fists super-doctrine allowing the chaff-clearing weapons to do double duty against vehicles.

World Eaters falter in getting to the enemy. Khorne Berzerkers will murder anything, but they're stuck with sub-par deployment options.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I've done quite good with DG CC lists and they have a lot of options for that, but they're not even on the list :(

Admittedly, World Eaters or Space Wolves are probably better.

I'm sorry, I did not think about them when making the poll, to be honest.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Black Templars. Ork-style charge rerolls, multiple sources of extra charge distance (and notably the most reliable Chaplains to allow that one to go off much more often than others), the ability to lock enemies in combat so they can't just run away, backed up by the powerful Imperial Fists super-doctrine allowing the chaff-clearing weapons to do double duty against vehicles.

World Eaters falter in getting to the enemy. Khorne Berzerkers will murder anything, but they're stuck with sub-par deployment options.

Interestingly though, World Eaters are leading the poll at the moment with 39%, while the next Marine faction sits at 18%. While at the moment technically allowed, I don't think it will last long that Black Templars are able to make use of Imperial Fist rules. That will for sure come up in the first FAQ / Errata for them.

Are World Eaters able to make up somehow for sub-par deployment options in your opinion?

Custodes?

White Scars and Ravenguard are the only armies with the ability to get units into combat before they get tremor shelled or just shot off the board with the ability to ignore/reduce overwatch without paying an obscene amount of CP to do it. Throw in the ability to prevent units from falling back and I think WS edge out RG (among the imperials).

SW have no ability to DS and charge. They have no ability to turn off overwatch and they have no + movement abilities (+1 to advance/charge with a phobos character the best but those phobos characters are really bad in a SW army).

BA are okay but everything they can do WS can do for less CP, with an extra point of AP and they can advance + charge (and their black rage gives d3 attacks).

I don't know enough about the traitor legions to comment but I've played some nasty slaanesh + nurgle armies with disco lords, the contorted epitome and pappa nurgle which were brutal in CqC (not sure if they work anymore vs. the mentioned tremor shells or all that crazy good marine overwatch).

I don't think you can beat deploying just outside of 9" of your opponent before your movement phase, getting a pre-game advance, rolling charges on 3d6 and picking the best or the +2" charge and +3" pile-in/consolidate (probably the biggest game changer), straight up moving twice, preventing the enemy from falling back or advance and charge.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Custodes?

Not a Marine faction, but you know that.

What about Deathwatch? Put a Bike and a Vanguard Vet or 2 in a Kill team and sling shot even Terminators into melee?
Or better yet, 4 attack Aggressors being sling shot with the help of an Inceptor.
And unlike some other "melee marines" DW can actually pew-pew really well to thin down units than might either be hard to kill in melee, or a waste of time in melee.

Basically you pew-pew the squishy stuff and crunch the big stuff.

-

a_typical_hero wrote:


Are World Eaters able to make up somehow for sub-par deployment options in your opinion?

No. They can get one unit of super-Terminators in somewhat reliably by having their Warlord tag along with the +1" charge Warlord Trait, but one unit does not an army make. Black Templars are much better at getting their entire army to contribute.

If World Eaters got Drop Pods, or could take Warptime or something, I might reconsider, but they can't.

bananathug wrote:
White Scars and Ravenguard are the only armies with the ability to get units into combat before they get tremor shelled or just shot off the board with the ability to ignore/reduce overwatch without paying an obscene amount of CP to do it. Throw in the ability to prevent units from falling back and I think WS edge out RG (among the imperials).

Suppressors can turn off Overwatch for anyone against stuff with more than one model, no?

Alpha legion, probably with the new shenanigans.

Rainbow Warriors.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Rainbow Warriors.

So.... power ranger?

It's Whitescars, right? CC is all about threat range for your bashy boys.

At the moment White Scars took over with 25% (13 votes) and reduced the World Eaters' lead to 22% (11 votes).

I would have expected Raven Guard (8%) and Alpha Legion (2%) to get more votes. Both have very reliable ways of getting close to the enemy.

Nobody on the list has bad murder HQs, just some of them are better than others.

Which makes no sense because World Eaters don't actually have a lot of special rules to make them better in melee nor stuff that makes them more capable to get into it.

It's people really just voting World Eaters blindly.

Blood Angels still have the widest number of options to leverage that T4 and 3+ armor save in melee. I like Whitescars, but they don't have the depth of options and their trait falls by the wayside quickly in edicated melee

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Blood Angels still have the widest number of options to leverage that T4 and 3+ armor save in melee. I like Whitescars, but they don't have the depth of options and their trait falls by the wayside quickly in edicated melee

The BA chapter tactic is always on, unlike the WS super doctrine, which does help them in the early turns of the game. Those T1 Forlorn Fury or T2 Deep Strike assaults get a sizeable bonus thanks to that. However, I don't agree that the BA have more depth of options. All BA options are pretty much the same thing and none of them are significantly superior to regular SM options. The BA Smash Captain is pretty good, but other chapters can also do a good version of him. Death Company can shred light infantry but there's a point where loads of extra attacks just aren't that useful. Being able to kill 20 GEQ or 40 GEQ in one combat isn't too relevant if you can only make a charge into 15 of them.

This may all change when BA get a super doctrine of their own but until then all those options BA get are just lots of different ways of being mediocre unfortunately.

Now with the new Blood Angels rules available, I think I would personally give the edge to them.

They have strong characters (most of them with Jump Pack Assault), get a bonus to wound in melee and to charge and a relic that denies Overwatch.

The only thing that they are missing that is crucial would be to keep a unit in melee like White Scars or Black Templar can do it.

Allying in a White Scar captain on bike with Master of Snares could be worth it to lose out on the Assault Doctrine.

yeah I'd give it to blood angels, with a cavet. white scars are, in the assault doctrine, proably the best for dealing with armies that have a lot of 2 wound units. primaris heavy SM lists, warrior heavy 'nid lists etc

No one likes the Night Lords Raptors host deployment thingy + stratagems?