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Hi everyone

I am looking for some advice for a 2K ITC “competitive” list (that is in “” as I will be using CSM…). I went to the London GT this year and had a great weekend (went 1-4 ☹), taking this;



Positives coming from this list:
Was tough to table, it took at least 3 turns to remove the 90 Plaguebearers in each of the 5 games
Nothing was targetable other than Plagueberers, by deep striking the Nurglings or deploying out of line of site
With the character support the Plaguebearers would advance up the field quite quickly

Negatives coming from this list:
There are numerous here, but they mostly boil down to lack of ranged shooting/lack of hoard removal shooting/lack of anti-tank shooting. So basically shooting… I would gain board control, but without the ability to push back opponents I would be eroded down to a point that I had a bunch of characters against my opponent and had to last for 1-3 turn in that state.
Also, to note that the Nurglings (while I love them) are not strong enough to rely on for anything really, the amount of stuff that fires without needing line of site surprised me…

Keeping the positives of my list last year I am preparing for next year (in June), I know that Chapter Approved might change loads, but it takes me a while to paint so there are some things I can get a start on. So, I have a Daemon Battalion of 930 points and would like some advice of how to add some reliable shooting to the list, while retaining the fact that nothing can be killed till the Plaguebearers are dead (so looking at deep strikers or stuff that does not require line of site to shoot). Here is what I have at the moment;



I would like to remove the CSM as I think they are a liability, which means taking either a Vanguard or Spearhead (and at least 70 points of boots on the ground). I have my eyes on either Decimators or Whirlwind Scorpius (2 of either, keeping both the Oblits and Terminators).

Does anyone have any thoughts on attractive Heavy Support or Elite options for the Chaos Space Marines to fill out a shooting detachment?

At the moment I am leaning towards the 2 Scorpius, for the fact that they can remain hidden behind a wall of deamons and terrain…

Thanks and sorry for the long post

Lots of new rules are coming out in PA2.

You definitely want to see those as well as the changes coming in CA19 before making any firm decisions!

I might say havocs with reaper chaincannon for 24” 8 S5 Ap-1 D1. They can move and shoot, depending on you legion you can move them with a stratagem 9” (alpha legion). With the new stuff coming you also get a stratagem so the can not be targeted if not the closest unit.
Downside with this is you have to move up Plaguebearers or deploy nurglings in front of havocs so they don’t wipe them out.

Deredo is a good choice otherwise. Given butcher cannon and greater havoc launcher it has a reach of 36” and a 48” ignore LoS.and a twin heavy bolter. They are durable has long range, can shoot smaller things like scouts out of LoS and as of now they see a lot of competitive play.

Oblits are getting new fun stratagems as well. Like reroll any or all D3 for its weapon and can hide behind nurglings and Plaguebearers just like havocs but you need to DS them in on turn 2 so you loose one turn sadly.

It’s what I can come up with on top of my head. Check out psychic awakening faith and fury and take it from there.
When CA20 comes you just come back and we’ll try to fit everything together then. No point in waiting, try out some stuff and proxy things if you’re allowed at your club so you can learn the most useful things.

Thanks guys. I hadn't seen extensive PA2 leaks/reveals. The can't shoot strat. That sounds interesting, can we assume it will work like the Deathguard one? So infantry basically. Biggest turn off for Havoc is their survivability and I don't really want to invest in transports for them.

Have looked at Alpa Legion for that extra move, at the moment I reckon Abaddon is such a multiplier for both the terminators and obliterators that he is worth it over regular lord.

However if I were to go the Deredeo and/or havoc route then would a static lord be a better investment?

I can proxy pretty much what I want at my local, depending on the opponent and that I have at least got the correct base size/similar silhouette (any dreadnought would be a problem but I might be able to borrow)

Found the PA2 leaks, they look great. So with that in mind I will be testing out the following Alpha Legion list as soon as I can

Anyone got any thoughts on what might/might not work, or any improvements that could be made?



Here is my rough thinkning/tactics behind my selections



Thanks everyone for your help

My first thought when looking at your list is that you have three support characters totally worth 294p. For this sum, you can loose 1cp by removing supreme command detachment and then add another 30 PB and a unit of nurglings. Won’t have any support character with this sadly so maybe add 30PB and a foot sorcerer for delightful agonies and prescience if the points add up.

I usually do take too many characters myself but mine consists of DPs and Lord Discordant mostly and I feel the lacking of other units doing different things like shooting (you do have this), holding objectives or simply screens.

I like the list and will probably copy your spearhead but change oblits for one or two units of havocs.

Originally I didn't have the Apostle and Disciples, but I can't fit 3 HQs in a Spearhead.

If you were to pick 2 of the current 4 CSM characters, which would you go with? Would love to know your reasoning for the choice too.

Thanks

Word Bearers might be useful, they have a stratagem that removes cover bonuses from a piece of terrain for 2CP.

You could get a Patrol detachment with an Apostle and a Scorpius, who can both improve it's shooting to 2+ and protect it with -1 to hit even if it's not your turn.

It's pretty much completely independent, but would still synergize with your AL shooting and free up a lot of points to build your Spearhead into a Battalion.

You reckon over the flexibility of maybe taking a Devastation Battery? Don't they have a way of ignoring cover all the time?

I believe its their trait, so it would cost 2 CP (one for the formation and one for the extra trait). It will only work on the Obliterators though, but it would also gives them a first turn shot if I go second.

As long as you are not losing all your HQs to Eliminators!

Yoyoyo wrote:
As long as you are not losing all your HQs to Eliminators!

TBF, Chaos HQ's are rather tough cookies.
Compared to orkz, still, a valid concern.

Yoyoyo wrote:
As long as you are not losing all your HQs to Eliminators!

Is a concern, that's why I have the option to deepstrike 2 of them, and the daemons are hard to crack for snipers.

Updated list, 1 less character and more CP. I have had a few people recommend more MSU in ITC, so added the CSM squads. The Nurglings have replaced the Plaguebearers as they can forward deploy, I then use Forward Operatives Stratagem on the Obliterators and move them in behind the large squad of Nurglings. I will have the Obliterators in a much better position for shooting twice in my first turn.

The relic on the Sorcerer gives him 3D6'' move (rolled each movement phase) and basically the fly keyword (without actually giving him Fly)

Seems like a really solid list IMO.

Good luck!

Watched a preview of CA19 and MY list has come in at 1,878. I will most likely replace the Bilepiper with a Herald of Slaanesh as that has decreased by 10 points and offers me more options with his powers, so I will have 132 points of modifications available to this list.

Daemon Battalion (+5CP)
HQ – Poxbringer – PSYCHIC POWER: Miasma of Pestilence
HQ – Herald of Slaanesh - PSYCHIC POWER: Symphony of Pain
TROOP – 9xNurglings
TROOP – 3xNurglings
TROOP – 3xNurglings

Chaos Space Marine Battalion (+5CP) Faction Keywords – Alpha Legion & Mark of Slaanesh
HQ – Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Chain Axe – RELIC: VIPER’S BITE (2nd Relic 1CP) – WARLORD TRAIT (We Are Alpharius Stratagem 1CP): HEADHUNTER
HQ – Chaos Sorcerer in Terminator Armour, Force Stave, Bolt Pistol – RELIC: MINDVEIL – Psychic Powers: Prescience, Delightful Agonies – WARLORD: MASTER OF DIVERSION
TROOP – 5xChaos Space Marines
TROOP – 5xChaos Space Marines
TROOP – 5xChaos Space Marines
ELITE – 10xTerminators, Chain Axes, Combi-Plasma

Chaos Space Marine Spearhead (+1CP) Faction Keywords – Alpha Legion & Mark of Slaanesh
HQ – Chaos Lord, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
HEAVY SUPPORT – 3xObliterators
HEAVY SUPPORT – Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought – Butcher Cannon Array, Greater Havoc Launcher & Twin Heavy Bolter
HEAVY SUPPORT – Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought – Butcher Cannon Array, Greater Havoc Launcher & Twin Heavy Bolter

1,868 Points
12 CP

At the moment I have got the following ideas (in no particular order, though I do like the idea of making idea 1 work):

1. This list is very CP hungry, so make space for a 3rd batallion. Possibly Red Corsairs (Nurgle), utilising the Nurgle Power Fist Relic for my own version of a Smash Lord (if I am still allowed to after CA19 I would put this Lord on a bike for 20'' move first turn and charge). This idea would leave me with 6 min squads of CSM. Anyone think this is a problem competitively? To conserve points I would move the Sorcerer to the Red Corsairs as the Dark Hereticus powers don't care about Legion. Has anyone got any suggestions for how to accommodate this, I would be around 100 points short of fitting in the 3rd Battalion.

2. Spend the extra points on a new squad, I think I could get 5 bikers with a power fist for the points. Useful in ITC for speed and board control in addition to the Nurglings. What squad would anyone possibly recommend?

3. I replace the Herald of Slaanesh with either a Daemon Prince with wings or Syll'esske. This gives me a bit of CC threat while also providing some reroll 1s to hit for the Obliterators when they do start on the board. The Prince would fit in easily, but Syll'esske would mean I would be 28 points over. Any suggestions of making cuts to fit her in?

Thanks as always

Michael

Got a practice game and lost. Sad face, buts lots to learn.

I kept the Oblits on the board with my opponent going first. They were protected by the nurglings that had warpsurge. Lost them and the Oblits to all 2K shooting, so while they did die my Dreadnoughts were only shot by Lascannon from a Fire Raptor.

My second turn was great, killing the raptor with my dreadnoughts and his aggressors with my terminators, he had Vitrux Guard so my Lord only half killed tiggy, but in my third turn killed his apothecary outright, so he does work.

Main issue was my opponent had a Levi dread.... I didn't even bother shooting it. I had load of S8, but nothing with enough damage to counter the half damage strat SM can use. To counter this I have dropped the sorcerer down to a regular psyker and lost the large blob of nurglings (I will use my warlord trait to pick up the obliterators if I go 2nd) and i can now fit in a twin Lascannon contemptor that can fire twice...

Other than this, anyone got any ideas for how to tackle high strength vehicles from the SM books? I have been considering the Electoplasma battery for the Deredeo, but I think the restricted range hurts it too much

Thanks

Yvraine wrote:
Got a practice game and lost. Sad face, buts lots to learn.

I kept the Oblits on the board with my opponent going first. They were protected by the nurglings that had warpsurge. Lost them and the Oblits to all 2K shooting, so while they did die my Dreadnoughts were only shot by Lascannon from a Fire Raptor.

My second turn was great, killing the raptor with my dreadnoughts and his aggressors with my terminators, he had Vitrux Guard so my Lord only half killed tiggy, but in my third turn killed his apothecary outright, so he does work.

Main issue was my opponent had a Levi dread.... I didn't even bother shooting it. I had load of S8, but nothing with enough damage to counter the half damage strat SM can use. To counter this I have dropped the sorcerer down to a regular psyker and lost the large blob of nurglings (I will use my warlord trait to pick up the obliterators if I go 2nd) and i can now fit in a twin Lascannon contemptor that can fire twice...

Other than this, anyone got any ideas for how to tackle high strength vehicles from the SM books? I have been considering the Electoplasma battery for the Deredeo, but I think the restricted range hurts it too much

Thanks

Oblits really are the best option at the moment, do you play eith eome line of sight blocking terrain? Because without it you are at a big disadvantage going second against a gunline.

If you cant hide them well, then deepstrike them. You can afford one extra round of shooting. Even wity half damage strat oblits should blow through a levi dreadnought.

Also use the devestation battery, droping in a lord to reroll ones to hit ansld wound really stacks up. Plus ignoring cover can be a game changer.

Devestation battery is a good call. One issue I've had running it so far is that I am already very CP hungry and it would eat 2 more, just for 1 unit.

Master of Possession (dropping the Apostle and Disciples) might fill the role of Lord for them, I already have 2 lords. 1 babysits the 3 dreadnoughts and the other comes down with the Terminators and offers a small amount of sniping for support character killing.

Terrain can vary wildly in my group but I will be taking this list to the LGT this year and that has ITC ruins with lots of LOS blocking. I will start by deploying them and then using my warlord trait to put them into deep strike if I don't go first, that's the way I should have played them anyway