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Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Hi Guys

I got some metal striking scorpions I'm getting around to building.

How would people go about this? Mind all they have is basically one sword arm that needs to go on the model.

Pin & Glue?
GS & glue?
Just Glue?

Its been a long time since I put together metal models. I remember these always falling apart but that was probably due to lack of storage/care as I was a young un.
My hive guards just fell apart all the time with their heavy shields.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





I'm assuming these are the infamous Gary Morley Scorpions from the early noughties. Super glue + green stuff will hold it but it won't withstand much force so display shelf only. Pinning such a small area is way too fiddly for me. I'd just use a blob of epoxy glue like Araldite or whatever which will double up as a gap filler. Still not fool-proof though, the best solution is replacing with the previous all-in-one Jes Goodwin sculpts
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






These are the current sculpt but in metal.

Thanks for the tip

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





 Argive wrote:
These are the current sculpt but in metal.

Thanks for the tip



In that case, at least you've got taste contributing to the strength of the joint!
   
Made in gb
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Cloud City, Bespin

I don't understand the need for GS plus superglue, I have always used gel superglue and it holds just fine and even fills gaps if you apply enough.
Regular superglue is too watery and ruins detail

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?
 DV8 wrote:
Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought should also be double-fisted.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Procrastinator extraordinaire





Edinburgh, UK

I tend to pin and glue and even with those small joints you can get at least some pinning in there!

If you wanted to go a step further you could greenstuff the joint as well to strengthen the join.

Good score on the metal scorps too, they're lovely!

5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar W/L/D 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 20/6/2 9th Ed - 2/1/0
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
The Cutting Mat Chat: A hobby blog
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Virginia

I don't remember using greenstuff to help hold together a join but I used paperclip pins on joins that looked fiddly because it doesn't take hardly any time.

One small tip you might try with metal models you're afraid will end up fragile is to make something plastic on the base that will support the weight of the model and handle it by that rather than the model itself. My old DE Lelith and Warmachine Cryx witches had some plastic ruins on their bases that stuck up where I'd grab to pick them up rather than the spindly bodies so they never have to support their own weight. Better safe than sorry.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





To strengthen the bonds

You score or rough up the joint. Use an epoxy glue (2 part strong). Pin it, rough up the pin. Fill any join crack with greenstuff for final strength. It will often withstand dropping.

I used to use metal epoxies. I built some of the old school ork nobs and even the old metal dragons with it. You can hit them with a hammer. Might as well be welded.

Actually with a micro-torch you can tin a joint as well. That is also very strong. Bit tinning is a lost art these days.

Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I used to use greenstuff and superglue for all my metal bonds - now I don't.

Greenstuff and superglue works simply by having the most tiny bit of greenstuff ever - then cutting it in half and using half. The idea is that the greenstuff will only hold a tiny part of the join area and the greenstuff is actually a weak point (it dries softer than superglue). However when exposed to superglue it cures and gets sticky and then holds very fast. It thus is used as a trick to whole two metal parts together to let the superglue dry fully instead of using your fingers. This can be invaluable in warhammer where often you have a LOT of spikes on both parts to hold onto.


However, as I said, I don't use that trick any more (or only very rarely). These days I score the joining surface area of both parts. I also, before I score, make very sure that both joining surfaces are flat and smooth.

Smoothing and making sure they are flush helps with the strength of the joint as the surfaces meet up close, leaving less glue space. The scoring then dramatically increases the surface area and also the range of potential angles for the glue to hold onto both halves. Both together helps not only increase the time that it takes for the join to hold onto both parts tightly enough to let go; but also improves the overall strength of the join area.


   
Made in gb
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Cloud City, Bespin

That would be keying the surface, which is what I'd do to a large uneven surface, I do it sometimes to the standard ball and cup joints that are quite common on metals

When I put together my 2nd ed landspeeder, I used nothing but superglue and it hasn't fallen apart yet.
It took along time to prepare each joining surface and I clogged 2 files in the process

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?
 DV8 wrote:
Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought should also be double-fisted.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Rybrook wrote:

It took along time to prepare each joining surface and I clogged 2 files in the process


Files are great, but for miniatures the soft materials we use tend to clog up pretty fast.

For regular toothed files the best method is to use a brass wire brush (these are easily bought at any regular tool shop or online). You simply brush the file in the direction of the grain and the brass bristles scrape down the gaps and push out all the material. Doesn't take long to clean the file and is invaluable for clearing out all that gunk.


For a diamond file the best cleaning option I've found is to use a regular rubber/eraser. Not the soft putty kind that are popular, but the regular stiff rubbers. You simply rub over the file (or file over the rubber - either way works) and it will clean off the gunk. Metal shavings are actually really easy because they will stain the rubber black, with the rubber remaining clear and unstained once you've cleaned the metal out of the file. For resins and plastics its harder to see when you've cleaned it, though there is a dullness to a dirty file that you will see eased off.
Aluminium Oxide bars can also be used to clean the file and recut the diamond; though ideally you want a bar of the same grit value as the file (annoyingly very fine grits are hard to find in the UK; then again I've only found one retailer offering 900 grit diamond files so the higher grains are much harder to source. A lot of your typical "no grit mentioned" files are often much much rougher)

Both methods are invaluable for extending the life of files in this hobby.

   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Just glue them. 99% of people's perceived problems and made up issues with metals come from gak glue. Get a good glue and you won't need to do stuff like pinning a bloody infantry sized mini's arm. Gorilla glue is what I recommend. Never steered me wrong yet.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Cloud City, Bespin

 Grimtuff wrote:
Just glue them. 99% of people's perceived problems and made up issues with metals come from gak glue. Get a good glue and you won't need to do stuff like pinning a bloody infantry sized mini's arm. Gorilla glue is what I recommend. Never steered me wrong yet.


Which gorilla glue?

I bought a bottle from an aafes, when I used it on a coffee mug to test it out it expanded to a foamy mess

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?
 DV8 wrote:
Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought should also be double-fisted.
 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Rybrook wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Just glue them. 99% of people's perceived problems and made up issues with metals come from gak glue. Get a good glue and you won't need to do stuff like pinning a bloody infantry sized mini's arm. Gorilla glue is what I recommend. Never steered me wrong yet.


Which gorilla glue?

I bought a bottle from an aafes, when I used it on a coffee mug to test it out it expanded to a foamy mess


The one I use is the bog standard one with the light blue top. Works a treat for me.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I went out and got a super glue gel. Normaly use normal super glue/plastic glue. I do remember gel being better for metals.

Gorila super glue gel was twice the price though.. so i cheaped out shamefuly... spends £100's on plastic and metal model kits... stinges out spending additional £3 to put the stuff together .

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Argive wrote:
I went out and got a super glue gel. Normaly use normal super glue/plastic glue. I do remember gel being better for metals.

Gorila super glue gel was twice the price though.. so i cheaped out shamefuly... spends £100's on plastic and metal model kits... stinges out spending additional £3 to put the stuff together .


Not a fan of the gel one as you have to constantly shake the bottle to make it work. Grab the one I suggested above. I swear by it.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Care to post a pic?
Think it should all be the same but you never know...

I don't plan on be throwing these around... But if I had a £1 for every time I knocked over a trooper...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/28 22:29:07


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in ca
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

This is the stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Super-Glue-Gram-Clear/dp/B001IY82FM

For metals, I always pin, and usually use JB Kwik, 2 part metal epoxy. For small stuff like hands, a pin (paper clip) and superglue works fine.
   
Made in us
Master Sergeant




Iowa

If the metal model is small enough superglue is fine, if you are gentle with them and have a carry case. Otherwise I would use JB Weld or some other such two-part epoxy intended for use on metal. It will actually fuse the joints together. I have actually dropped my Avatar of Khaine to the floor before and had him come aware totally intact.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Pin + super glue. Honestly I just use those little tubes of Krazy Glue super glue and haven't had any issues. Drill, paperclip pin, and glue. Generally never had a issue, and it's fast.

   
Made in ca
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

 Warptide wrote:
If the metal model is small enough superglue is fine, if you are gentle with them and have a carry case. Otherwise I would use JB Weld or some other such two-part epoxy intended for use on metal. It will actually fuse the joints together. I have actually dropped my Avatar of Khaine to the floor before and had him come aware totally intact.


I don’t mean to be pedantic, but JB Weld is just a 2 part epoxy with metal in it. It is more than strong enough for our purposes, but does not weld or fuse the parts together. Add a pin to a JB Weld or JB Kwik joint and it is likely set for life.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



Sacramento, CA.

 Grimtuff wrote:
 Rybrook wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Just glue them. 99% of people's perceived problems and made up issues with metals come from gak glue. Get a good glue and you won't need to do stuff like pinning a bloody infantry sized mini's arm. Gorilla glue is what I recommend. Never steered me wrong yet.


Which gorilla glue?

I bought a bottle from an aafes, when I used it on a coffee mug to test it out it expanded to a foamy mess


The one I use is the bog standard one with the light blue top. Works a treat for me.


+1 on the blue top Gorilla glue. Stuff holds everything.
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

 Rybrook wrote:
I don't understand the need for GS plus superglue, I have always used gel superglue and it holds just fine and even fills gaps if you apply enough.
Regular superglue is too watery and ruins detail


If it's too watery, you are using the wrong thickness. Try medium thickness.
If it's ruining detail then you are using too much, period. Superglue's strength is in the fact that you do not need to slather the join in it to get the bond. A little goes a long way.

As for the superglue/GS bond thing? It's because although superglue bonds *seem* to be strong, they are actually rather weak when it comes to certain types of shear stresses. Rotational, torsional or compressive forces will shear the bond (falling from 3' up onto a floor).

The GS adds a small shock absorber to the join - because the 50/50 mix never properly hardens and superglue bonds better to the GS than to the metal.


I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
 
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