Banner of Rage - no time limit?

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**Cheex**

One of the new relics in the Fire & Fury book reads:

Once per battle, at the start of the Fight phase, a model with this Relic can unfurl the Banner of Rage. If they do, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in friendly WORLD EATERS units while their unit is within 6" of that model.

Am I reading this right that there is no time limit to this ability?

It doesn't feel right - why have the need to trigger the ability at all if there is no drawback to triggering it on the first turn?

**Tazberry**

It seems to be true.
No drawback? You have to give the relic to a priest first of all, then you have to take it for your relic or pay cp for more relics just to get it. IMO we have better relics.

**nekooni**

Tazberry wrote:
It seems to be true.
No drawback? You have to give the relic to a priest first of all, then you have to take it for your relic or pay cp for more relics just to get it. IMO we have better relics.

What he meant is that there's no reason to not immediately unfurl it as it Lasts for the rest of the battle, RAW.
They could've just made it permanent instead of unfurling it at the start of the very first fight phase.

This is most likely an oversight and meant to work only for that fight phase, so you should expect it to be changed via errata

**Not Online!!!**

Probably just fluff rule that you HAVE to unfurl it.

**p5freak**

RAW, it works until the end of the battle, and its highly likely not intended that way.

**Not Online!!!**

p5freak wrote:
RAW, it works until the end of the battle, and its highly likely not intended that way.

considering all other banners and this one beeing only a mild buff aswell, that is a funny assestment of RAI

**terry**

Not Online!!! wrote:
p5freak wrote:
RAW, it works until the end of the battle, and its highly likely not intended that way.

considering all other banners and this one beeing only a mild buff aswell, that is a funny assestment of RAI

the fact that you need to activate it, can only activate it once and has no down side to activating, suggest there should be a phase/turn limit

**Tazberry**

It’s actually good that’s it at the start of any fight phase. If you got 2-3 units of zerkers, you probably would want to use it on a unit that has not taken any damage or have the best position.

Word Bearers do also last the whole battle but emperors children does only last until end of battle round.

We have to wait and see for the FAQ but it might be intentional by GW as world eaters do not see much play.

**p5freak**

terry wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
p5freak wrote:
RAW, it works until the end of the battle, and its highly likely not intended that way.

considering all other banners and this one beeing only a mild buff aswell, that is a funny assestment of RAI

the fact that you need to activate it, can only activate it once and has no down side to activating, suggest there should be a phase/turn limit

Agreed. Usually anything that needs activation, and can only be used once, has a time limit.

**nekooni**

p5freak wrote:
terry wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
p5freak wrote:
RAW, it works until the end of the battle, and its highly likely not intended that way.

considering all other banners and this one beeing only a mild buff aswell, that is a funny assestment of RAI

the fact that you need to activate it, can only activate it once and has no down side to activating, suggest there should be a phase/turn limit

Agreed. Usually anything that needs activation, and can only be used once, has a time limit

Exactly. And effects that are meant to last until the end of the entire battle usually state that specifically.
.

**Stux**

Relic of lost Cadia had the exact same issue.

RAI I am convinced this lasts for one turn. Obviously for your own games or events you'll need to clarify with the opponent/organiser how you'll run it.

**Wagguy80**

Not much debate just a lot of miss-reading. It says "If they do..." pertaining to Unfurling the banner.
So the banner doesn't just give a bonus. They get a bonus when the banner is unfurled. The bonus is directly connected to the unfurling of the banner, not the presence of the banner.
So it only works for 1 turn, and once per game.

**Cheex**

Wagguy80 wrote:
Not much debate just a lot of miss-reading. It says "If they do..." pertaining to Unfurling the banner.
So the banner doesn't just give a bonus. They get a bonus when the banner is unfurled. The bonus is directly connected to the unfurling of the banner, not the presence of the banner.
So it only works for 1 turn, and once per game.

At what point in the turn does the effect stop? End of the fight phase? As soon as the banner stops unfurling? As soon as one player sneezes?

Fact is that, by RAW, a unit just needs to be within 6" of the bearer to get a bonus after is has been unfurled. There is no time limit.

The sad thing is that even with this technicality, it's one of the weaker banner options out there.

**BaconCatBug**

Cheexsta wrote:
Wagguy80 wrote:
Not much debate just a lot of miss-reading. It says "If they do..." pertaining to Unfurling the banner.
So the banner doesn't just give a bonus. They get a bonus when the banner is unfurled. The bonus is directly connected to the unfurling of the banner, not the presence of the banner.
So it only works for 1 turn, and once per game.

At what point in the turn does the effect stop? End of the fight phase? As soon as the banner stops unfurling? As soon as one player sneezes?

Fact is that, by RAW, a unit just needs to be within 6" of the bearer to get a bonus after is has been unfurled. There is no time limit.

The sad thing is that even with this technicality, it's one of the weaker banner options out there.

Correct. Once it's unfurled the effect doesn't end. Most likely GW being GW and leaving their proofreading to tuberculosis riddled badgers and will be fixed like the Cadian relic was.

Until then, have fun with it!

**Type40**

Strange that they'd mess this up. Harlie have the midnight's chime, and that specifies until end of turn... It does practically the same thing... Why not copy and paste if the intent was one turn... Strange.

**Cheex**

Type40 wrote:
Strange that they'd mess this up. Harlie have the midnight's chime, and that specifies until end of turn... It does practically the same thing... Why not copy and paste if the intent was one turn... Strange.

Simple human error, designer probably forgot (or didn't know) that such an item existed and worked how they might have wanted it.

Or, if you're BCB, it's because literally everyone at GW is incompetent and shouldn't be allowed within 100 yards of a pen.

**JohnnyHell**

Seems an obvious oversight that will get patched.

**Cheex**

Just to close this off, GW has addressed this in the FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/b708da79.pdf

The Banner of Rage only works for a single phase now.

**Leekensington**

Seems pretty simple. First fight phase model unfurls banner get +1 attack. Fight phase ends. Next fight phase did the model unfurl the banner at the beginning of this fight phase no it was already unfurled so no extra attacks. The bonus only exists if they unfurled the banner at the beginning of the current fight phase.

**nekooni**

There was no time limit. Now there is. End of story.

**Cheex**

Leekensington wrote:
Seems pretty simple. First fight phase model unfurls banner get +1 attack. Fight phase ends. Next fight phase did the model unfurl the banner at the beginning of this fight phase no it was already unfurled so no extra attacks. The bonus only exists if they unfurled the banner at the beginning of the current fight phase.

Yes, that is what I said.

However, before the FAQ, this was not the case.