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Title sums it up, but added: The Imperial Armor book is labeled an Index...so are they gone?

So disappointed that GW hasn't given the Guard new Rough Riders by now.

edwardmyst wrote:
Title sums it up, but added: The Imperial Armor book is labeled an Index...so are they gone?

Effectively FW stuff is basically legacy. FW isn't really doing new 40k stuff unless it's HH stuff being ported over, the main studio has taken over rules for most everything and is content to largely ignore it all and leave it as a a forgotten Index. Chapter Approved showed they really don't want to deal with balancing any of the stuff so they just make it unplayably bad for matched play to avoid worrying about it.

FW is being shifted more towards specialist games, whereas previously they did stuff that the main studio didn't have interest/time for or that couldn't profitably be done in plastic.

I'm also very very sad about this whole issue. For a moment I had hope I could declare my rough riders to death riders to use the models, but I guess that won't help either if someone does not want to play against legends.

DKoK hasn't even had any real rules since the beginning of 8th Edition, if I'm not mistaken. And we saw what happened with EDT.

I think it's becoming obvious that Forge World isn't going to be doing much 8th 40k stuff, except for maybe a few cosmetic and specialty items here and there.

And it's a shame, because DKoK is one of... three choices for guardsmen. Unless, of course, you do things the GW way and "kitbash" multiple kits. Have fun with your... $150.00 basic guard squad.

And this, of course, is the exact reason I quit playing guard. The army that SHOULD be full of options... isn't.

GW should just license out guardsmen models to the other companies that do a better job, anyway.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
DKoK hasn't even had any real rules since the beginning of 8th Edition, if I'm not mistaken. And we saw what happened with EDT.

I think it's becoming obvious that Forge World isn't going to be doing much 8th 40k stuff, except for maybe a few cosmetic and specialty items here and there.

And it's a shame, because DKoK is one of... three choices for guardsmen. Unless, of course, you do things the GW way and "kitbash" multiple kits. Have fun with your... $150.00 basic guard squad.

And this, of course, is the exact reason I quit playing guard. The army that SHOULD be full of options... isn't.

GW should just license out guardsmen models to the other companies that do a better job, anyway.

they pretty much do, given the fluff for guard allows you to basicly use any 28mm infantry, so long as you're not playing in a local GW..

If you can set it up and have the rules Death Riders really do the job you wish Rough Riders did but in all honesty, if you love them play them, I will and do. No one in their right mind will complain about Rough Riders on the field as just about anything they do other options do better and more cost effectively. Though rough riders have that style and feel that can't be easily replicated, but for Death Riders which actually feel pretty good.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
DKoK hasn't even had any real rules since the beginning of 8th Edition, if I'm not mistaken. And we saw what happened with EDT.

I think it's becoming obvious that Forge World isn't going to be doing much 8th 40k stuff, except for maybe a few cosmetic and specialty items here and there.

And it's a shame, because DKoK is one of... three choices for guardsmen. Unless, of course, you do things the GW way and "kitbash" multiple kits. Have fun with your... $150.00 basic guard squad.

And this, of course, is the exact reason I quit playing guard. The army that SHOULD be full of options... isn't.

GW should just license out guardsmen models to the other companies that do a better job, anyway.

they pretty much do, given the fluff for guard allows you to basicly use any 28mm infantry, so long as you're not playing in a local GW..

I feel truly sorry for any IG player who has no real option but to play in a GW store or event. So many beautiful 3rd party choices out there that just aren't "legal" to use, not to mention the old plastic kits lack many of the weapons you desperately need as a guard player. To be told we have an army that can practically be whatever you want, but only the two most boring regiments are available in plastic, is pretty sad.

I don't think it would be so insulting if GW just updated the two infantry boxes. The heavy weapon and command boxes for Cadian and Catachan are perfectly useable. Not great, but respectable. But the regular infantry boxes are what, old enough to drive now? And they lack huge amounts of options. We want to talk about legacy options, thank goodness command boxes exist or we'd be stuck with GL and flamers.

Where is the news about FW stuff going to legends? I've been hearing this but when I went to the legends page it didn't mention anything about FW.

BrianDavion wrote:
they pretty much do, given the fluff for guard allows you to basicly use any 28mm infantry, so long as you're not playing in a local GW..

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

I feel truly sorry for any IG player who has no real option but to play in a GW store or event. So many beautiful 3rd party choices out there that just aren't "legal" to use, not to mention the old plastic kits lack many of the weapons you desperately need as a guard player. To be told we have an army that can practically be whatever you want, but only the two most boring regiments are available in plastic, is pretty sad.

I'm obviously exagerrating, there's one GW store that I don't mind visiting and playing in at all, because the guy's only rule is "if I sell the model, I'd prefer you use those models" but even he doesn't mind third party models. He'll even tell people that as long as they're using GW tanks in an IG army, they're welcome to play on his tables. His whole opinion is that if you have to spend $100 on third party stuff to spend $20 on GW products, then that's a win for GW. Telling people that they can't use something really cool pushes them away, but he does have to enforce "mostly GW stuff when possible" as a rule. He's gone as far as to show people Shapeways stores where they can get their Space Marine heraldry.

Guy actually changed my perception of GW employees, because instead of shoving merch at me as soon as he asked what I played... he started telling me about events they were having at the store. Because of that, I always make it a point to swing in and at least buy a thing of paint or a little something from him.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I don't think it would be so insulting if GW just updated the two infantry boxes. The heavy weapon and command boxes for Cadian and Catachan are perfectly useable. Not great, but respectable. But the regular infantry boxes are what, old enough to drive now? And they lack huge amounts of options. We want to talk about legacy options, thank goodness command boxes exist or we'd be stuck with GL and flamers.

I mean, at least give us some upgrade sprues.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Where is the news about FW stuff going to legends? I've been hearing this but when I went to the legends page it didn't mention anything about FW.

I've seen nothing on that, but I'd like to know.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
We want to talk about legacy options, thank goodness command boxes exist or we'd be stuck with GL and flamers.

Only the very very new players or the stupid would be stuck. And most of the very very new players would figure out alternatives pretty quick.

ccs wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
We want to talk about legacy options, thank goodness command boxes exist or we'd be stuck with GL and flamers.

Only the very very new players or the stupid would be stuck. And most of the very very new players would figure out alternatives pretty quick.

Oh I didn't mean finding weapons, every guard player has been there.

What I meant is GW has been pushing a lot of units where if it ain't on the sprue, the unit doesn't get the option. If the command kit hadn't existed, the only way to get special weapons would've been to buy special metal blisters. Which are the exact thing GW has been pushing to legends. I'm saying had things been different and chapterhouse been earlier, guard could've been given the cultist treatment of just being able to take flamers, and maybe grenade launchers if you're Cadian, along with a vox caster.

Basically just a what if, but good to remember because sisters players right now are having to saw off stormbolters from their Sarge's even though they can take every other combo weapon AND the sprue has been shown to have 4 stormbolters on it but the kit can't outfit a squad with a 5th stormbolters for the sarge so away the option goes.

Just use the Index Imperial Armour and keep using those rules. It’s not like they’re OP or the book magically vanished. If you owned and used the book you can keep on owning and using the book, outside of the douchiest playing groups.

Honestly, the amount of fun policing going on since the announcement of Legends is sad. What’s largely a logistical exercise so GW can drop some books from print is being used by stranger types as an excuse to tell people they can’t use their armies. Pretty sad.

Thanks for the ideas/conversation. I don't own the Imperial Armor books. My sadness is...I have an IG army with 30 RR's, and my FLGS runs a 50PL tourney each month (that has really been fun because the players use it as a "play my cool stuff" event). I'll have to talk to them about where they stand I guess.This whole no model no rules is such a joke given the history of this game. Oh well, different strokes and all.

Edit: Just reread the IG FAQ for legends. It says a few things such as:

The rules here can be used in any type of play – open, narrative
or matched, and full points are provided to help you balance
your forces..

So may be some chances the old FLGS let's them in.

Forge World has a pre-order on DKOK Infantry Platoon, so at least they are getting some support.

Just to throw this out there, but Death Korps "Death Riders" are a unique datasheet from the IA Index.

Hey, explain what you mean Kanluwen. Are you saying as a Unique datasheet they are still in because that unique data sheet is not listed in the legends FAQ? Again, I do not own Imperial Amror. It has point costs in it correct? (not just PL)

That would be correct, yes.

Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum has a 'standalone' list for DKoK. Death Rider Squadrons are their own, unique unit--and there's an Officer and Commissar option to boot.

I do not know whether or not they got their own unique points or how things will shake out later, but as of right now? Consider them "in".

edwardmyst wrote:
Hey, explain what you mean Kanluwen. Are you saying as a Unique datasheet they are still in because that unique data sheet is not listed in the legends FAQ? Again, I do not own Imperial Amror. It has point costs in it correct? (not just PL)

Yes, Death Riders are still a 100% legit datasheet, unless the game you are playing doesn't allow Forgeworld. Forgeworld Indexes did not get the Legends treatment.

They also have options for HQ, Commissar, and Command Squad on horses.

I'll point out as well that Death Riders are a little more point heavy, but much tougher than standard rough riders and actually hit harder due to WS 3+ and I believe higher Str with the mounts.

If you want justification for the rough rider models over Death rider models, it is spoken of in the fluff that some of the horses can be genetically enhanced as well as cybernetics. So could always say the difference lay in unseen augments as opposed to the DKoK easily seen cyber horses.

The only thing that may be an issue would be having a commander made up so they can be run in their own detachment.