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Hi I play blood Angel's.
Not sure what to use skyhammer missile, fragstorm missile or lascannons?
Want it to cover its ass against infantry but specifically take out flying vehicles. Now I heard it can take wing mounted missiles to. So who knows? Thanks

First, be sure you are talking about the right model.

The Stormtalon is the ground-attack gunship, comes with the twin assault cannons under the nose, and one set of secondary guns (2xHB, 2xLC, TML, Skyhammer)

The Stormhawk is the air superiority fighter. It has the icarus stormcannon OR Lastalon under the nose, 2x Assault cannons on the wings, and the same set of secondary guns as the Talon.

The Stormraven is the larger transport gunship, which is the one with the wing missiles, a top turret with twin assault/las/plasma cannons, Twin HBs/MMs or TML on the nose, and the option for hurricane bolters.

If you want something primarily for air superiority, the Hawk is the better choice, as it actually gets a rule that helps shoot down other flyers. If you want to take the Talon (which gets strafing run vs. ground targets) and press it into service for AA duties, you probably want the Skyhammers, as they get a bonus when shooting flyers.

All of them have the option to take a Typhoon Missile launcher, which can shoot frag misiles. None of them have fragstom missiles.

If you are primarily concerned with flyers, the LCs are probably overkill. The TML gets you some flexibility.

* This is from the vanilla POV. Not sure how BA affects things, but it should be mostly the same.

Whatever you do, do not touch the Skyhammer Missiles. They're simply utterly terrible. Typhoon is better against air targets than these supposed anti-air missiles and Lascannos are massively better. And of course these two are good at killing ground targets against which the Skyghammers are utterly worthless.

You arm them with magnets.

 Crimson wrote:
Whatever you do, do not touch the Skyhammer Missiles. They're simply utterly terrible. Typhoon is better against air targets than these supposed anti-air missiles and Lascannos are massively better. And of course these two are good at killing ground targets against which the Skyghammers are utterly worthless.

It might be I’ve got some legacy baggage from prior editions, but why the hate? Honest question. Skyhammers used to be my go-to.

S7 seems like it should do pretty good for AA work. Eldar birds are T6, Those are probably one of the main ones to worry about. And the extra +1 to hit means you might actually land a shot.

Marine flyers range from T6-8, so I can see the desire for a higher S. Are there enough tough flyers out there to make LCs massively better? If you start looking at the ground attack role, I’ll give you that, plenty of T8 stuff stuck in the mud. But the OP was worried about keeping the skies clear. The Krack missiles are a point less AP then the LCs, but gain the flexibility of frags. Skyhammers loose even more AP, but get more shots with the to-hit bonus, so should land more. D3 rather than D6 damage, granted.

I magnetized my talon, but getting the HB/LCs set up was a bit rough. Not the easiest things to swap out.

I built mine with LC since I have to deal with heavy armour quite often. I should have magnetized it but I'm pretty happy with the balance between being able to dump AC shots at troops and blast armour w LC or just shooting everything at a high priority target.

 Nevelon wrote:

It might be I’ve got some legacy baggage from prior editions, but why the hate? Honest question. Skyhammers used to be my go-to.

S7 seems like it should do pretty good for AA work. Eldar birds are T6, Those are probably one of the main ones to worry about. And the extra +1 to hit means you might actually land a shot.

Marine flyers range from T6-8, so I can see the desire for a higher S. Are there enough tough flyers out there to make LCs massively better? If you start looking at the ground attack role, I’ll give you that, plenty of T8 stuff stuck in the mud. But the OP was worried about keeping the skies clear. The Krack missiles are a point less AP then the LCs, but gain the flexibility of frags. Skyhammers loose even more AP, but get more shots with the to-hit bonus, so should land more. D3 rather than D6 damage, granted.

I magnetized my talon, but getting the HB/LCs set up was a bit rough. Not the easiest things to swap out.

Do the maths. Even against T6 flyers, with its to hit bonus Skyhammer is worse than Typhoon and much worse than Lascannons. And against higher toughness foes the difference gets even bigger. Skyhammer is simply a trap option.

Average damage against T6 3+ flyer (while moving.)
Skyhammer: 1.333
Typhoon: 1.556
Lascannons: 1.944

Average damage against T7 3+ flyer (while moving.)
Skyhammer: 1
Typhoon: 1.556
Lascannons: 1.944

Sure, Skyhammer is cheap, but it isa not like the Stormtalon itself is free, so there is really no reason to spend a few points more for a significantly better weapon.

I'd have to agree, I'd go with Lascannons or Typhoon launcher for the talon.

I'd add that you can get some good use from the frag missiles as well if you don't have armor targets to worry about to pair with the twin ACs on it and the strafe attacks.

Something to keep in mind if you aren't going to use magnets and still don't believe us on the Skyhammers, just put the typhoon missile launcher on it and I doubt most players would care if you used it like a skyhammer now and then as they both fire missiles and really the look difference is minimal and probably wouldn't even be noticed by most players.

Though if you want the best of both worlds the twin las is the way to go. Then just hose down troops with ACs and pick off tanks with the Lascannons.

So in closing, best go big or go home is the Lascannons, and best synergy with the ACs on hitting infantry targets yet still good aimed at most light to medium vehicles, go with the Typhoon Missile launchers. The sky hammers are the cheapest yet you get what you pay for, which is very little.

I stand corrected, thanks for the numbers.

I wonder if there are any targets the Skyhammers are better at, or if the are just the budget option. Things with really crappy armor? Stacked -1 to hits? And then the follow up to that is are these targets ever seen? I suspect the answer is “there might be some edge cases” and “no"

Ok thanks guys for the opinion I have bought magents for my stormtalon when it comes so I am deciding to magnetise the entire thing so I can swap weapons at will but I get your point. I am not in a rush dealing with one of my opponents admech flyer yet so for now use it anti tank/anti infantry role start with lascannons first

The Typhoon has come down to 32 points in the latest Chapter Approved. That makes it 20% cheaper than the TLLC and it has the flexibility of firing frags. I would be tempted to go Typhoon at this point.

The best way for Blood Angels to take out flyers is to assault them with our Jump Infantry. Captain Smash attacking most aircraft goes something like this....

I think the load out of AC and ML is the the go to. If you need more AT then upgrade to LC but the points is quite high.

To be fair Captain Smash and the Jump Packs is the BA's best answer to pretty much everything.

I like it with HB. Keep it cheap with 18 shots ap-2.

I used to run an air wing of 2 with HBs (that pair well with the stock assault cannon) and a single with Lascannons.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You arm them with magnets.

By RAW, you are not allowed to arm them with magnets.

Love my Stormtalon. Typhon Missile Launcher is the way to go. I used it a lot for anti-tank duties until the Eliminators and Repulsor Executioner came out. I used to field a Stormtalon in my Ultramarines until a local player started playing BA with Smash Captains. I think it's absurd that a Smash Captain counts as a flyer, but I have turned the tables on him a couple times using the flyer rule against his Smash Captains. It was an expensive model for what it did. With the latest points drop, I might have to revisit it. Looks kinda attractive for less then 200 points.