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Hello all,

After a thread on me thinking on starting Chaos Space Marines, I started to make a few purchases, mainly the Get Started boxsets and the Holiday/December bundles and stopped there, as I don't know exactly what else I should buy and what I should avoid. I am going Black Legion, if that matters at all, but what I have so far:

1x Abaddon the Despoiler
1x Haarken Worldclaimer
2x Chaos Lords in Terminator Armor
2x Chaos Sorcerers in Terminator Armor
2x Chaos Lords
2x Chaos Sorcerers
70x Chaos Space Marines, Noise Marines, and/or Chosen
6x Obliterators
3x Venom Crawlers
25x Havocs (Each 5 man squad can contain the same weapons)
4x Rhinos
20x Terminators
6x Greater Possessed
3x Master of Possession

What do you think so far? What else can I build on?

Don't bother getting Worldclaimer if you're actually use him as Worldclaimer.

 Psionara wrote:
Hello all,

After a thread on me thinking on starting Chaos Space Marines, I started to make a few purchases, mainly the Get Started boxsets and the Holiday/December bundles and stopped there, as I don't know exactly what else I should buy and what I should avoid. I am going Black Legion, if that matters at all, but what I have so far:

1x Abaddon the Despoiler
1x Haarken Worldclaimer
2x Chaos Lords in Terminator Armor
2x Chaos Sorcerers in Terminator Armor
2x Chaos Lords
2x Chaos Sorcerers
70x Chaos Space Marines, Noise Marines, and/or Chosen
6x Obliterators
3x Venom Crawlers
25x Havocs (Each 5 man squad can contain the same weapons)
4x Rhinos
20x Terminators
6x Greater Possessed
3x Master of Possession

What do you think so far? What else can I build on?

No offence, but that is a HUGE number of models to pre-plan for. By the time you get that much built and painted we'll be in a whole new edition and any gameplay advice we could give you now would be totes irrelevant.

I'd suggest scaling back and starting with just enough to put together a 1000 or 1500 point battalion, with maybe a couple extra models you just really really love and wanna have.

I totally understand your mindset. I've been there. It's just important to remember that PLANNING an army you WANT is eighty bajillion times easier than actually buying, building and painting an army you can FIELD.

Also, given enough time - definitely the amount of time that list would take - you're sooner or later gonna feel attracted by other armies, games or projects. It's important to keep that in mind. Constantly flitting around between incomplete projects is bad news, but very very few people can stick with one single huge army like that all the way through from conception to completion, with no side projects or alternate games, without getting waaaay burned out.

My advice would be something along the lines of getting Christmas battleforce boxset, the start collecting, an extra box of CSM, and whatever couple extra units or vehicles you need to make it viable and hit 1000 or 1500, and one special "dessert" treat (a big fancy model you just really really love - like Abaddon or something). Get that stuff all built and painted, see how you're feeling, play a couple games, see how they play, and THEN start thinking about next steps.

nataliereed1984 wrote:


No offence, but that is a HUGE number of models to pre-plan for. By the time you get that much built and painted we'll be in a whole new edition and any gameplay advice we could give you now would be totes irrelevant.

I'd suggest scaling back and starting with just enough to put together a 1000 or 1500 point battalion, with maybe a couple extra models you just really really love and wanna have.

I totally understand your mindset. I've been there. It's just important to remember that PLANNING an army you WANT is eighty bajillion times easier than actually buying, building and painting an army you can FIELD.

Also, given enough time - definitely the amount of time that list would take - you're sooner or later gonna feel attracted by other armies, games or projects. It's important to keep that in mind. Constantly flitting around between incomplete projects is bad news, but very very few people can stick with one single huge army like that all the way through from conception to completion, with no side projects or alternate games, without getting waaaay burned out.

My advice would be something along the lines of getting Christmas battleforce boxset, the start collecting, an extra box of CSM, and whatever couple extra units or vehicles you need to make it viable and hit 1000 or 1500, and one special "dessert" treat (a big fancy model you just really really love - like Abaddon or something). Get that stuff all built and painted, see how you're feeling, play a couple games, see how they play, and THEN start thinking about next steps.

You're totally right, it is indeed a huge amount of models to build, paint, play and not have a new edition coming around the corner. That being said, I'll stick with your advice and just start small (i.e. 1000-1500). And I totally get that feeling that once I've done all of that, my mind would go to wonderland and start thinking of a new army. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it!

I'd drop some of the greater possessed and a bunch of the havocs. With the Rule of Three being a thing 25 is way to many. The greater possessed are only really good if you're running either Warp Talons, mutilators or possessed. And none of those are burning up tables. Even then, WT are only good if you DS them. Possessed are a little better now that they dropped a little in points. But they also benefit from the Hateful Assault rule so 1D3+1 isn't bad. I think they're better in WE personally but I'm biased. I'd run an 8 man unit with 2 greater possessed in a rhino with MoK. That's a potential of a whole bunch of S7 attacks at -2 AP.

 Psionara wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:


No offence, but that is a HUGE number of models to pre-plan for. By the time you get that much built and painted we'll be in a whole new edition and any gameplay advice we could give you now would be totes irrelevant.

I'd suggest scaling back and starting with just enough to put together a 1000 or 1500 point battalion, with maybe a couple extra models you just really really love and wanna have.

I totally understand your mindset. I've been there. It's just important to remember that PLANNING an army you WANT is eighty bajillion times easier than actually buying, building and painting an army you can FIELD.

Also, given enough time - definitely the amount of time that list would take - you're sooner or later gonna feel attracted by other armies, games or projects. It's important to keep that in mind. Constantly flitting around between incomplete projects is bad news, but very very few people can stick with one single huge army like that all the way through from conception to completion, with no side projects or alternate games, without getting waaaay burned out.

My advice would be something along the lines of getting Christmas battleforce boxset, the start collecting, an extra box of CSM, and whatever couple extra units or vehicles you need to make it viable and hit 1000 or 1500, and one special "dessert" treat (a big fancy model you just really really love - like Abaddon or something). Get that stuff all built and painted, see how you're feeling, play a couple games, see how they play, and THEN start thinking about next steps.

You're totally right, it is indeed a huge amount of models to build, paint, play and not have a new edition coming around the corner. That being said, I'll stick with your advice and just start small (i.e. 1000-1500). And I totally get that feeling that once I've done all of that, my mind would go to wonderland and start thinking of a new army. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it!

You're welcome! I wish you the best with your Chaos Bois.

I've got a big project like that in front of me too (5000 points painted out of 9000 points of Loyalist Marines), it's all about pacing yourself at that point.

The best advice I ever heard on the subject is "do at least a little bit of hobby stuff every day". Even if it's sitting down for five minutes and putting one color on one model progress is progress. The corollary though is "the moment it starts feeling like work, put it down". Break it down into bite-sized pieces and just chip away a little at a time. (Although what constitutes bite-sized varies.) Try to do too much at once and you'll burn out.

If that's what you've got already? Then I'd say you're good for a while.
Build, paint, play. Or build + some mix of paint & play....

After that think about what comes next. Unless some stupid good deal comes along. Or something new is released & trips that "I GOTTA HAVE THAT NOW!" gene that lurks in every minis gamer.

Models/units to avoid? Easy: Whatever you don't like. Because why spend $ & time on stuff you don't like?

Full Disclosure:

If you're playing Chaos to be Competitive, you're one step away from going to the red light district to find a quality girlfriend.

That said: Sorcerers are great. Chosen are a waste. Obliterators are a blast.

Get some cultists and smother objectives with them.

Yeah, I would stop buying new models and work with what you have.

There are several possible builds that could come out of this collection. I would encourage you to think about your army in terms of detachments, and how each one works together.

For example:

- You could do a Battalion of 3x 10x CSM squads with dual Chaincannons, maybe with Abbadon as the HQ.

- You could do a Speartip detachment with the Venomcrawlers, maybe with a MoP as the HQ.

- You could do a Speartip detachment with the Obliterators, maybe with a Terminator Lord as the HQ.

- And you could stick the Terminator Sorcerers into those detachments to round everything out.

Each of those represents a separate threat, the challenge is to get them working together so you can figure out the way you like to play. I'd start with something like that and give it time to develop.

Honestly, though, you have a lot of HQs, a large infantry force, and a bunch of heavy support choices. Any army you build is going to be heavy on bodies and put the HQs to work buffing other units. This kind of dictates the list you're going to play, it doesn't make sense to add more unless you're going for an Apocalypse-sized army.

If you really want to get more stuff, might I suggest an airbrush? That will speed up your painting.

You have no disco lords, which are a must if you run venomcrawlers, unless you decide not to run VC. Greater possessed can buff VC, same with daemon heralds. Another way to buff VC are psychic powers, a herald of tzeentch can cast flickering flames on a VC, and a sorcerer can use prescience, warptime. MoP can heal them, or improve their inv. A herald of tzeentch together with a disco lord, prescience and flickering flames buffs a VC to hit on 2s, and +1 to wound. Thats 2D3 shots at S9, hitting on 2s, and wounding T8 on 2s. A herald of slaanesh allows VC to charge after advancing. In general, chaos daemons work well together with chaos space marines daemons.
Havocs are best run as slaanesh chaincannon havocs in a transport, with a chaos lord and sorcerer. Disembark, cast prescience, and votlw. Shoot 32 times, hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s, with +1 to wound. Use endless cacophony, shoot again. A terrax pattern termite assault drill is a nice transport for them.
Nurgle obliterators like to hide next to a feculant gnarlmaw. Its gives them +2 cover, giving them a 2+ sv with +2 to the roll. Even against AP-2 weapons they will still have a 2+ sv. And they can fallback and shoot/charge, in case they get charged. The FG can be deepstriked, because its a daemon, or it can be summoned by a chaos character. Slaanesh oblits can shoot twice with endless cacophony, and use votlw for +1 to wound.
Avoid characters in terminator armor, not fast enough. use chars with JP. 10 Terminators can shoot 40 times with SB, with the same combo the RCC havocs have. Or you can give them combiplasma, and overcharge. You cant blow up with +1 to hit from prescience. Chaos terminators can use warptime, to speed them up.
I like helbrutes, with power scourge and reaper autocannon they are pretty cheap at 95 pts. and can deliver 8 S8 AP-2 D2 attacks in melee. Hellforged contemptor dreads in general have excellent stats, and can benefit from legion traits. I would also consider a hellforged leviathan dread.

You can make a pretty basic Disco Lord if you just plant a CSM atop a Venomcrawler. It'll pass for now.

If what I already have from Chaos went poof and I had to start over, the first thing I'd buy would be the Apocalypse box with all the bikes, probably. Then the Shadowspear/ Start Collecting Daemonkin contents. I'd probably try to track down 2 more Venomcrawlers and then cap it off with an Arch Lord Discordant. One drop pod to get the Master of Possession upfield as the Discordant and Crawlers reach front lines. Bikes will screen enough to get them there.

Then pray to Tzeentch that the other Daemon Engines will get replaced soon.

@ OP:

I am a NL player since 2nd. Take my advice, pal:

You have got too many models for a single force. Just do what I did when this happened to me:

Paint half of your bunch in a different Legion scheme. It will keep you sane to be able to use another batch of colours on your minis and provide you with two forces of which one can be lend to another player for providing intro games.

That’s why my Horus heresy minis are painted in word bearers colors! Then I can drink my own tears because half my minis are the weakest legion in 2 game systems!

I'd stay away from Havocs, personally. The minor buffs don't make up for the fact that they're one-wound models with no ablative wounds in the squad. They become an instant target too easily.

Speaking as a chaos player with over 10k points in chaos..
Did you plan to make an army for competitive or casual play? Because the suggestions you'll get online are much more skewed towards being a bit more competitive and points efficient. And will skew you towards certain top viable builds.

I personally love daemon engines and have no predators or vindacators, and only 1 venom crawler and 1 lord discordant. (Who hasn't seen his first battle yet) and typically lead my assaults with 2 maulerfiends, backed by daemon princes and then melee infantry. I'm also someone who actually LOVES using possessed and kharybdis assault claws. This could just be my meta, but when I field a land raider, it always does work. Same with my defiler.

Theres a lot of "sub optimal" choices you can make in casual games that just wreck faces if given half a chance. And I highly suggest you start with models you think look cool and fit a sort of "take all comers" idea. Because no matter what, when you first start playing, YOU WILL LOSE all of your games by virtue of just being inexperienced. So have fun with it in the beginning and as you get a good grasp of what you want and how you want to play, you can get more competitive as you go.

But that's just my experiences. I'm also the guy who's always disappointed with cultists and gets results from regular chaos space marines, though. So.. you know.. I'm weird.

Get a Lord of Skulls. Its quite cheap in points now, and it makes for a very impressive center piece model. Some people don't like how it looks, but I love mine. Its all in how you customize it. I have seen amazing conversions of the LOS.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Get a Lord of Skulls. Its quite cheap in points now, and it makes for a very impressive center piece model. Some people don't like how it looks, but I love mine. Its all in how you customize it. I have seen amazing conversions of the LOS.

I'd avoid doing this since he'll rarely see the table if youre new to CSM.

Try and get a 2k list fully painted and based before you add titans/lows