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2019/12/30 05:46:16
Subject: [500] - DKOK or Cadia - 34 model battalion detachment comparison
I trying to decide between two different ways to run my tentative AM army. Both have 3 infantry squads, a general, a psyker, a priest, and a tank. The difference is that one is using DKOK rules and a LR conqueror, while the other is using Cadian rules and a Malcador heavy tank. I know the best option would be to take a LR and the cadian forces, but I would be about 60 points shy of my goal and I have no idea what I could put in there that wouldn't feel like a filler unit (e.g. mortar squads). If the Malcador is really too weak, I don't think people would object to house rulesing it to have grinding advance and no penalties for moving and firing heavy weapons, like a LR/BB hybrid should. I have no intention of bringing this army to tournaments, so it might pass until (if) FW updates their units. So which detachment looks better?
Neither of these will be my main army, they will be allied along side a more elite army, like DW or Admech+Knights. I expect the guard to fill in a lot of the board control that those armies lack. My plan with both these detachments is to pair a character with an infantry squad and keep them in range of the general with the orders (either through voxcasters or Creed's 12" voice. The priest will go with the flamer squad to get an objective close to the enemy, where they might be charged, and the psyker will try to stay at ~18" since smite is the only good power she has.
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Death Korps of Krieg) [32 PL, 5CP, 500pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Detachment CP [5CP]
+ HQ +
Aradia Madellan [2 PL, 40pts]
Death Korps Marshal Karis Venner [5 PL, 69pts]: Momento Mori, Power sword
+ Troops +
Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 58pts]
. 7x Death Korps Guardsman
. Death Korps Watch Master: Chainsword, Lasgun
. DK Guardsman w/Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. DK Guardsman w/Vox-caster: Death Korps Vox-caster
Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 58pts]
. 7x Death Korps Guardsman
. Death Korps Watch Master: Chainsword, Lasgun
. DK Guardsman w/Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. DK Guardsman w/Vox-caster: Death Korps Vox-caster
Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 61pts]
. 7x Death Korps Guardsman
. Death Korps Watch Master: Chainsword, Lasgun
. DK Guardsman w/Special Weapon: Flamer
. DK Guardsman w/Vox-caster: Death Korps Vox-caster
+ Elites +
Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 40pts]: Laspistol, Power axe
+ Heavy Support +
Death Korps Leman Russ Mars-Alpha Battle Tanks [11 PL, 174pts]
. Leman Russ Mars-Alpha Conqueror: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters, Hunter-killer missile, 2 Storm Bolters, Turret-mounted Conqueror Battle Cannon, Track guards
I originally picked DKOK for one army because their 3+ weapon skill will make guardsmen fold like dry paper when under attack and their near immunity to moral (LD 9 from Karis and no shooting phase loses) will give them more staying power compared to other guardsmen. I don't know if that will make up for the fact that I am paying 6 points per guardsman. I also don't know if the LR will be a big target and just get shot off the board before it can use the conqueror's rerolls. Point for point, it's more vulnerable than the other vehicles I will play it with.
Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 40pts]: Laspistol, Power axe
+ Heavy Support +
Malcador Heavy Tank [15 PL, 233pts]: 2 Heavy Stubbers, Battle cannon, Heavy Stubber, Lascannon
Cadia enjoys the real FRFSRF order, but the room for the upgraded tank I what I am taking this regiment for. I have seriously considered using a tank commander instead of the Malcador, but if I had durability concerns with a normal russ, then I don't think put 30 more points into a 12 wound vehicle with no invuln will help me.
Even with my modest proposal for the Malcador, it will be seriously under powered compared to the russ. On the other hand, it does have more wounds than most anything outside a super-heavy, 18 wounds. It will much more durable than a Russ, and that is really what I am looking for in this detachment.
2019/12/30 12:30:58
Subject: [500] - DKOK or Cadia - 34 model battalion detachment comparison
It’s hard to do much with 500pts. At this level it’s the rule of cool and if you’re happy paying for forgeworle krieg modes. Korps are a labour of love.
The same goes for the malcador, if you’re putting one on the table it’s because you love it not because you want to win.
2019/12/30 21:46:27
Subject: [500] - DKOK or Cadia - 34 model battalion detachment comparison
I would get a custom regiment from Anvil Industires or Reptilian Overlords either way, GW cadians are rather dated. Frankly, the hardest part about the Malcador is that is it out of stock, so I’ll have to get creative with that.
An army needs to play the way it feels. I’m looking for a force with a lot of staying power first and foremost, the guard wins through attrition, but I don’t know which will be more durable. Should I put my durability points into my tank or into my infantry, which will come out better on net? I imagine damage output will be mostly the same for both armies, trading cadia’s infantry shooting for krieg’s melee and tank shooting, I don’t know which one will be more important, but that’s a secondary concern.
2019/12/31 08:31:47
Subject: Re:[500] - DKOK or Cadia - 34 model battalion detachment comparison
The cheapo option... 24 model battalion
As an alternative, two starter army boxes (one of tempestes scions, one the astra militarum box) could be built out as a 500 point force. Note that you have to futz a bit with the second commisar model to make it into a psyker primaris / astropath unit(basically, you give it a staff made from cutting down the scion's kit unit flagpole), and a funny scion primaris helmet to make it look like its some sort of wierd brainbox thing. I would consider strongly making them into a tallarn/scions rather than cadian scions force, for the rolling mobility of the light and medium armor, but cadian is a fine option as well. It has not got exactly the list of things you describe (generals are replaced by a fast talking lord commisar with fewer orders to pass out, ministorium priest isn't brought over, psyker becomes an attack astropath) but it gains resilience from transport and deepstrike that puts any gaurd infantry outside to shame. And importantly, you can build the entire thing out of 2 starter boxes, without buying even a single extra model.
Spoiler:
1 lord commisar with relic bolt pistol, powerfist, and warlord trait that lets it issue orders to either a scion or a cadian unit
1 tank commander with punisher gatling cannon, 2 plasma cannon, laser cannon, stormbolter
2 five man scion teams with
2 hotshot volleyguns (squad a)
2 plasma rifle (squad b)
10 man gaurd regular squad with grenade launcher and lasercannon (squad c)
taurox base model with 2 autocannon and stormbolter
astropath with malstrom
battalion .. cadian or tallarn .. with scions. 500 points and +5 cp.
This gives you a smite like power that can be used to snipe characters, AND a sniper commisar relic pistol to back it up. Between the two, you are a not uncredible threat over a roudn or two to an enemy captain! The list has not got the ministerium priest you favor, but it does come with a transport that is also medium armor to complement the scion deepstrike options, and its a nice blend of bs3 units with good special weapons and bs 4+ units with decent firepower. Cadian lascannon are among the best anti-armor (for price) in the game, rerolling all misses when not running. The astropath is enough to give you denial, as well. 2 plasma cannon + 2 autocannon + 2 lascannon + 2 plasma rifle together are enough to bring down an enemy tank, and the punisher gatling cannon firing twice is a real threat against enemy hordes. While its not quite as hand to hand combat capable as a ministerium priest support army, its got a lot of functions packed into a 500 point support force, and doesn't need a lot of cp support to do its thing. For a lark you could make the tank commander carry the relic "hammer of sunderance" .. giving you enough extra points to give each scion 5 man squad a powersword, but more importantly, greatly upping the armor kill of the whole force. It just costs a lot more cp that way.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/12/31 12:16:44
Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.
2019/12/31 22:32:18
Subject: [500] - DKOK or Cadia - 34 model battalion detachment comparison
I don't have a WL trait to give it and I'm not sure how the psyker and commissar will get into position. But I think this would be a much better army by itself. My DW isn't lacking for mobility and my admech isn't lacking for vehicles. I think I really need to have more than 40 GEQ troop models in a 1500 point army. I'm just trying to figure out of krieg's moral advantage is worth having a rather vulnerable LR tank. A lone Russ is more vulnerable and carries more firepower than any other vehicle I have; I expect it will die rather fast, much fast than the Malacador.
I've already got the priest and psyker from the combat arena box (the priest is converted from a crusader whose given a DW blackshield head and a cut-down power maul to make an axe).
2020/01/08 22:25:04
Subject: [500] - DKOK or Cadia - 34 model battalion detachment comparison
If you want cheap cp then cadians but if you want then to do something, Krieg 100%. Great for taking and holding objectives. Also bonus rules of cool points.
Another thing to consider is making tge tank a tank commander.
2020/01/10 17:01:07
Subject: [500] - DKOK or Cadia - 34 model battalion detachment comparison
