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Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





Washington, DC

Greetings fellow devotees of the Machine God.

My buddy and I live in DC. We've been playing a few years and are up for a challenge. NOVA is practically our home tournament.

Neither of us have played in a GT before, so tips are welcome in addition to feedback on a possible list.

AdMech are my core army. With the Chapter Approved point drops, I think the below is possible if I acquire some Armigers:


List

- Stygies VIII Battalion (+5 CP)

- - HQ - -

Tech-Priest Dominus, Warlord, Relic: Autocadeus of Arkhan Land, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber Pistol

Enginseer

- - Troops - -

8x Vanguard, Enhanced Data-Tether

8x Vanguard, Enhanced Data-Tether

8x Vanguard, Enhanced Data-Tether

- - Heavy - -

Onager Dunecrawler, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser + Cognis Heavy Stubber

Onager Dunecrawler, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser + Cognis Heavy Stubber

Onager Dunecrawler, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Icarus AAA Array


- Stygies VIII Battalion Servitor Maniple (+5 CP, -1 CP for specialist detachment)

- - HQ - -

Tech-Priest Dominus, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber Pistol

Daedolosus (I made a conversion from a Datasmith, hope that is legit)

- - Troops - -

5x Kataphron Destroyers, Plasma Culverins and Cognis Flamers

5x Rangers

5x Rangers

- - Elites - -

4x Servitors

- - Fast Attack - -

2x Sydonian Dragoon, Taser Lances


- House Raven Super-Heavy Detachment (+3 CP) -

Knight Crusader, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Thermal Cannon, Ironstorm Missle Pod, Heavy Stubber

Armiger Warglaive, Reaper Chain-Cleaver, Thermal Spear, Heavy Stubber

Armiger Warglaive, Reaper Chain-Cleaver, Thermal Spear, Heavy Stubber


At this point, I am 2000 points on the nose and armed with 15 CP. Based on a brief readthrough of NOVA's rules, is this what I need to provide? It looks like a lot of additional things occurs in the "muster" phase that I can actually adjust somewhat round by round. Typical approach:

Warlord Trait: Monitor Malevolus (I think I'm going to be CP starved...)

Field Commander (-1 CP) on the second Dominus for Master of Biosplicing

Enhanced Bionics (-1 CP) on the Destroyers

Exalted Court (-1 CP) on the Crusader, usually going for Ion Bulwark

Heirlooms of the House (-1 CP) on the Crusader, usually going for Armor of the Sainted Ion for the combination 2+/4++


Playstyle Thoughts:

With 39 troop bodies, at least 3 units of fast melee chargers, the giant Knight distraction, and 1-2 firebases of efficient AdMech shooting, I think this list has a lot of potential. Between Stygies -1 to hit, Shroudpsalm or Prepared Positions, a 5++ invuln on all major units (or the Dragoons extra -1 to hit), heavy guns, and plenty of troop screening, I'm hoping this list can attrite adversaries while still having something for the objective game. I'm hoping that the list will be good enough at this to overcome its most glaring deficiency: lack of psychic defense. I think opponents will be forced to choose between attacking the chargers or the firebase(s) - choosing both means both will still be hitting; choosing one means the other will feth them up. A lot of independently operating groups unless I want to bunch up to maximize Daedolosus's bonus against a Knight or something.

Usually spend 1 CP to Scout Move the Dragoons ahead if 1st turn or as a screen if going second. Since all units can move and fire weapons without penalty, I can make the most use of NOVA terrain to try and hide if I go second (popping 2 CP for Prepared Positions also saves Shroudpsalm for Turn 2).

That would leave 8-10 CP left for play, plus whatever I get from Monitor Malevolus.

The Destroyers benefit more from Daedolus's +1 to hit. With a dedicated Dominus, Daedolosus, and the Noospheric Mind Lock (1 CP), they will be throwing out 5d6 36" Plasma Shots with save overcharge with BS 2+, reroll 1s.

The Onagers have a Dominus and an Enginseer to babysit them. They can hammer away from the back field, supporting each other for the invuln save re-roll. Use of Protector Doctrina Protocols (1 CP) could help a Neutron blast through a -1 penalty versus flyers and still hit on BS 2+, Reroll 1s, or it could help the AAA Icarus be equally effective against a ground target.

As I don't own Warglaives yet, I'm not sure whether I should angle them for a Full Tilt (2 CP) first turn charge if I can, but I can at least present that threat. I figure they may not make their points back, but will force an adversary reaction. My Crusader never makes its points back, but absorbs enemy fire for a turn or 2 before going down. Adding the Warglaives helps make Order of Companions (3 CP) an option for some potent first turn shooting, but Machine Spirit Resurgent (1 CP) means the Crusader will always be operating at full efficiency until destroyed.


Actions By Threat:

Hordes - Vanguard are oddly enough some of my point efficient units versus a lot of different targets. They can happily eat chaff. The Cognis flamers on the Destroyers will help clean up whatever kills the screen. The AAA Icarus turned against ground is also helpful, while each Neutronager has 6 stubber shots. All of the knights and the Dragoons would happily stomp around to clean up, though they'd be swamped on their own.

Marines/Elites - The Plasma Destroyers, Icarus AAA, and Avenger Gatling Cannon are prime anti-MEQ units. Even the lowly Vanguard can throw weight of fire or pop 2 damage on a 6 to wound, which makes them a nuisance threat.

Flyers - Icarus is happy, while one of the Neutronagers can pop Protector Protocol to help. The stacking bonuses on the Destroyers (Daedolosus, Mind Lock) should help safe plasma one big flyer per turn on a BS 3+, reroll 1s. A second Icarus would help here at the expense of some anti-armor capability.

Psykers - I'm hosed. I hope I have enough screens to absorb blows the first few turns, while repair capabilities or ability to ignore wounds should help mitigate some Smite damage. I'm actually more concerned about Warptime and Da Jump in case I forget my backfield or the adversary is able to create gaps in my screen.

Armor - I think this list will do fine against Imperial Guard parking lots. Such lists in my friendly crew drove me to AdMech and I am fairly consistently able to outlast them now in attrition and objective gathering now. A serious corner case may be a problem, but then I just aggressively run for objectives.

Knights - I've never played against another knight. Melee is a critical weakness for most, so I suspect an enemy knight would be a critical target for the Warglaives. Open to tips.


Alternative

One alternate list I've identified is to add a 3rd Dragoon to increase offensive punch, swap a Dominus for a Manipulus, drop 6x Vanguard, and swap the Cognis Flamers on the Destroyers for Phosphor Blasters (net result is 2000 points)

This approach means I will have one mega firebase rather than possible 2 independent ones, a reduced screen, but the Dragoon infiltration and threat will be 50% greater. Is the extra 6" on the Plasma Culverin's possibly worth it? It's rare I can't get Onagers in position unless they are blocking each others' movement.

A second alternative would drop the Dragoons altogether to upgrade each Ranger squad with 2x Arquebuses and an Omnispex, and then to add some Infiltrators to force the opponent to worry about deep strikes. Arquebuses may make Rangers less flexible in deployment for Engineers or backfield screening, but 2x-4x could allow some serious threats to characters or to whittle away the new Primaris snipers.


Other thoughts? Thanks for reading thus far. Anyone with NOVA tips - I'd be eager to hear them!


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/31 20:00:52


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Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





Washington, DC

Refreshing this thread in another bid for constructive feedback.

Friend and I signed up for the NOVA Grand Tournament in September. Neither of us have played in a tournament before.

I've tweaked my prior list and got a first match in this past weekend. Opponent played Primaris Space Wolves, armed with Eliminators, an Executioner, 3x Impulsors, and Deep Striking Aggressors. List played really well, but I got first turn and was able to complete first turn Knight charges and subsequently dominated match tempo. Needs further testing.

List

- Stygies VIII Battalion (+5 CP)

- - HQ - -
Tech-Priest Dominus, Warlord, Relic: Autocadeus of Arkhan Land, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber Pistol
Enginseer

- - Troops - -
6x Vanguard, Enhanced Data-Tether
6x Vanguard, Enhanced Data-Tether
6x Vanguard, Enhanced Data-Tether

- - Heavy - -
Onager Dunecrawler, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Icarus AAA Array
Onager Dunecrawler, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Icarus AAA Array
Onager Dunecrawler, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Icarus AAA Array


- Stygies VIII Battalion Servitor Maniple (+5 CP, -1 CP for specialist detachment)

- - HQ - -
Tech-Priest Dominus, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber Pistol
Daedolosus

- - Troops - -
5x Kataphron Destroyers, Plasma Culverins and Cognis Flamers
5x Rangers, Data-Tether, Single Arc Rifle
5x Rangers, Data-Tether, Single Arc Rifle

- - Fast Attack - -
3x Sydonian Dragoon, Taser Lances


- House Raven Super-Heavy Detachment (+3 CP) -
Knight Crusader, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Thermal Cannon, Ironstorm Missle Pod, Heavy Stubber
Armiger Warglaive, Reaper Chain-Cleaver, Thermal Spear, Heavy Stubber
Armiger Warglaive, Reaper Chain-Cleaver, Thermal Spear, Heavy Stubber

2000 points on the nose; 15 CP.

Muster CP Expenditure
(-1) Enhanced Bionics - Upgrades Destroyers' 6++ Bionics save to a 5++
(-1) Exalted Court - On Crusader, going for Landstrider (+2" to Advance and Charge Rolls to House Knights within 6")
(-1) Heirlooms of the House - On Crusader, Armor of the Sainted Ion for 2+ base armor save

Deployment CP Expenditure
(-1) Infiltrate - Move Dragoons 9" up the field toward a priority target or form a screen against incoming charge

Resulting in 11 CP to play with.


Questions for DakkaDakka

1. Is this enough troops? To hold objectives? To screen?

Compared to the prior list, I've shed 6x Vanguard and some servitors which could be a bit of deep strike denial. Vanguard and Rangers are plucky as far as troops go with a 4+ base and 6++, particularly with Stygies -1 to hit and plentiful cover options. That said, they're no Intercessors. Would it be worth sacrificing lethal offensive power for greater troops for objective cover?

2. Is this enough anti-tank?

Compared to the prior list, this list has picked up an extra dragoon but swapped 2x Neutronagers for 2x Icarus Array Onagers. Though anti-flyer seems covered, my ranged anti-tank at game start consists of the Plasma Destroyers (5d6 overcharging shots at 2D each) and the Knights' thermal weapons. Icarus Arrays can chip wounds off tanks (particularly after activating Doctrina Protector Protocols), but they aren't great. My theory is that the lesser anti-tank firepower is made up for by four units able to tag and harry in melee. Does this work in practice?

3. Should I base my Onagers for NOVA?

Can anyone from experience comment on this?

4. Do Tech-Priest Dominuses need to be WYSIWYG?

The second Dominus was a conversion with a nonstandard weapon. Will this be a dealbreaker if he is kitted the exact same as the other on the field?

5. Are Skorpius Duneriders really worth taking over Onagers? Over Armigers?

They seem to be the hotness of the moment. I get the Belleros non-LOS cannons give options I don't presently have, and they are almost a 1-for-1 swap with the Onagers, but they don't seem that much more lethal. With the Armigers, it is 290 points versus ~330, forcing some other list shavings, along with forgoing 3 CP and the House Raven abilities that help increase the Crusader's mobility and threat. Can anyone who has played them weigh in on what I may not be seeing?

Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/10 02:25:34


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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I am also in that position - - but I live in alexandria and mostly play in the gamestores huzzah, gamer guild, and a couple actual games workshop stores. (Schedule permitting, sigh).
Friends of mine are much more competitive than I am (I am semi competitive) but I have souped knights into gaurd and admech into gaurd off an on for the past couple years, so here are some comments for you bout your list, too. But get in touch! My friend organizes game days at local FLGS where about 6 to 8 people show up and play round robin a couple practice rounds for various tournaments, I reckon they are a great chance for you to test your army against some (actually some of them are quite competive gamers) fairly serious lists designed for nova. My own list is fluff by comparison!

So.
you currently have 3 onanager dunecrawler with AAA, 1 shooty knight with artifact and warlord trait for melee charges and combat, 2 light knights with melee abilities .. but the fragility and lack of character designation that are the weaknesses of the armiger class. I read your list twice now, but I can't see the inquisitor that you could easily bring as your anti-psyker surprise for the enemy!

What if you had 2 dunecrawler, 2 gallants and one armiger warglaive, and a 55 point mallleus inquisitor who can cast 2 times, deny 2 times, and knows two spells (the anti-ovewatch and one called "castigate")? You still have -1 to be hit dunecrawler next to each other, that way, but your bleeding edge is much bloodier.

Sure, you lose some shooting, but you pick up a 4++ questoris knight who is going to be right behind your sainted ion guy. One knight gallant is an urgent crisis, two is a #@$%@ emergency in most parking lot lines. The bigger knights are easier to keep alive long enough to repair with your admech strategems, and the 4++ guy with cover shifts his normal armor down to 2+, enoguh to shut off a lot of spam no AP weapons that are not a minor threat to a knight.
Alternately, you could forget about the inquisitor and make one or both fo the frontline knights into wardens?

Its been a while since I memorized point totals and I never played wardens, so I am not sure exactly how that costs these days, and I haven't been playing knights in my own list since chapter approved came out, so my point totals are probably off a bit.

What I do know though is that warglaive armiger have always underperformed for me in a pinch. They don't win nor do they lose the game for you, enemies fighting them can tarpit them where a big knight often can't be stopped by mere troops. Warglaives don't go all helpless like helverin do, but they are only a medium crisis when one gets on your side fo the board. Gaurd players can smile and say "nope" and put like, I dunno, 30 troops in their way.
   
Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





Washington, DC

Howdy Duke, thanks for the response!

Great that you're local! I'll PM you about local gaming stores. Those Round Robins sound like a great chance to try out the list in advance of NOVA.

Knights Gallant

If I am hearing this correctly, you are suggesting that I downgrade the Crusader into a Gallant and pay an additional ~140 points net on that detachment to upgrade one Warglaive into a Gallant? That keeps the House bonus. Your argument is that the melee lethality increase and additional psychological effect of two melee knights is worth sacrificing some ranged lethality?

I could do the math on this.

Inquisitors

I am a complete noob when it comes to inquisitors. Looking in Battlescribe, it seems the basic version is Cast 1, Deny 1? I could downgrade a Dominus into a Enginseer and pick up an inquisitor, but is it worth it? How much does one Deny change the game?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hector Rex

Let me get this straight. For 100 points (Battlescribe) and 1 CP, Hector Rex provides 3x powers known, 3x casts, and 4x denies (which get +1 within 12")?

This seems too good to be true. What am I missing? Can he not use the White Dwarf Inquisition update?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/12 13:21:11


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The inquisitor I run is a 55 point purchase, and you can enhance him with a pregame 1 cp cost stratagem to give him a warlord trait and a relic. I usually take the "extra psy power and spell known and deny" warlord trait and the relic that makes any attempt to wound him roll at -1. (Which sniper resistance is made of.)

I ain't saying you HAVE to use him. You can proxy him into a few games and see if he is good or bad as addition, right?

Uhn. Hector Rex is pretty cool, but I don't have the model. But yes, that is one that many of my slightly more competitive friends are running these days in their admech or knights lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/12 13:22:53


 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





If you guys are thinking about attending NOVA (and why wouldn't you) you should get your tickets straight away! The GT is sold out but there are still some narratives left. If you can't get in for the tournaments I'd get a CAP and check it out anyway. It really is the best event on the east coast.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Note that there is one warlord trait for inquisitors to reroll a die on cast or deny -- that can make them really good at blocking the most critical spells. One cast change a game? Sure can, if mortarian fails to join melee cause of warptime not occuring and is then shredded where he stands...
Priceless.
   
Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





Washington, DC

 necron99 wrote:
If you guys are thinking about attending NOVA (and why wouldn't you) you should get your tickets straight away! The GT is sold out but there are still some narratives left. If you can't get in for the tournaments I'd get a CAP and check it out anyway. It really is the best event on the east coast.


I'm registered! I have no idea what I'm doing, but it's local so why not?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dukeofstuff wrote:
Note that there is one warlord trait for inquisitors to reroll a die on cast or deny -- that can make them really good at blocking the most critical spells. One cast change a game? Sure can, if mortarian fails to join melee cause of warptime not occuring and is then shredded where he stands...
Priceless.


I saw that WLT as well.

So the options for consideration are:

Baseline: Dominus redundancy, as per baseline.

Minor Psyker: Drop Dominus, 2x Data-Tether, and a CP for Enginseer, Inquisitor with 2/2/2, and 2x Arc Rifles

Major Psyker: Drop Dominus, 3x Vanguard bodies, 5x Data-Tethers, 2x Arc Rifles, and a CP for an Enginseer and Hector Rex with 3/3/4 or 2/2/3 with a reroll.

This further wittles down my troops, but that seems to make more sense than dropping a Dragoon. The Ironstorm Rocket Pod could possibly go in lieu of Vanguard Data-Tethers.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/13 00:11:56


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The proof is in the pudding, man, especially when you start to make statements like "my army vs the existing local meta or the expected meta at the big tournament" ... you just have to try it a few ways each different way to see how you like it.
I rarely run exactly the same army twice, I am always tweaking little changes to the artillery battery or shifting the third battalion regiment or shifting my inquisitor's exact loadout or something.

NOTE. the warlord trait and relic your inquisitor gets are a choice you make when you spend a pregame cp to buy them, NOT a choice you HAVE to make a day in advance. So its also a choice you can tailor a bit to the exact army you face. Its less critical to reroll psyk denials for hector rex if you are up agaisnt TAU, for example...
   
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Depending on your paint and if you are comfortable doing it I would switch your second detachment to ryza or mixed ryza and graia for the strategems (switch the dragoons to the other detachment)

Also hector rex is a monster but even with a 2+/3++ he dies fairly easily
   
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I don’t know the specifics of the Nova rules. Your rangers and vanguards (on your 2nd list) seems like units that will be easy to kill to maximise primaries in a ITC format.

Consider the Ryza Forgeworld for the Plasma specialist stratagem on your Destroyers. It’s an amazing force multiplier. Check it with your maths.

I am not convinced that 2-3 Dragoon is enough for the Conqueror doctrina imperative combo to be cost effective. Outside this combo, the Dragoon are very average. Stratagems are better used on expensive units maxed for a specific combo. In your list, I think the Destroyers are better suited to maximise your command points. Consider to reinvest the 200ish point for more Destroyers and biggers squads of rangers/vanguards.

For your questions, I think you need more troop. You should have concern vs hords. Vanguards and rangers have excellent anti-hord potential.

With the Ryza stratagem and the other multipliers, the AT of your Destroyer is one of the best in the game.

I think that the Dunerider are a bit better than Onager, but both are good. Warglaives House Raven are versatile units with an amazing mobility. Underdog in tournament. Keep them. Surprise your opponent.

The Gallant is an excellent idea. With Warglaives and Full tilt stratagem.

The Inquisitor could also boost your destroyer’s morale. 2CP per morale phase can be expensive.

Hope it helps!
   
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Also with engine war coming out the admech meta may change drastically in a short period of time
   
 
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