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Hello,

I'm just getting into W40k tabletop and assembling my first miniatures. Yet, I love to inspect codex, look at all the units, their weapons and dream of what is possible. Yet, this weapon specifically always stood out to me as being really, really good. It is a base weapon who gives Vanquisher run for its money in anti tank capability. It has insane range and has immense amounts of high power shots while at the same time being a basic option for this tank. I feel that this cannon makes it a tough to swap any other more specialized weapon, because anything more exotic will barely be better than battle cannon.

I don't see its highest cost as too much of downside, because when you are taking model who costs 130 points at the barest minimum, few more points for battle cannon is peanuts.

What I consider as OP or oppressive for taking other options:

Massive range

D6 amount of attacks. It makes as many attacks as weapons which you would consider to be more "spammy" like Leman Russ Exterminator tanks should be

Its has very powerful strength 8 blast while Executioner plasma cannon which in lore just melts columns of enemy armor is 7 strength! Vanquisher which is supposed to offer vastly superior anti armour performance gets same 8 strength and only +1 AP. This makes Battle cannon better anti tank weapon, because it makes nonsensical D6 attacks against 1 of a Vanquisher.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I did not had a chance to play a match with IG. From theocrafting it seems to me that Battle cannon has unrealistic performance and it makes all other variants obsolete, because of just how good battle cannon is at everything by default and how underwhelming those upgrades or sidegrades are. The only thing I see as remotely viable would be heavily specialized weapons like Demolisher or Punisher cannons. I also find it bizarre balancing logic. You buy expensive platform and then you are too cheap to spare extra 7 points for better weapon? There is simply too much power in main weapons for it to be awfully affected by weaponary choices. I think that game would be better balanced around cheaper platforms, but more expensive weapons with greater differences in performances than we have now.

Executioner can (and should) overcharge when firing. Better on something getting a reroll 1's tank order.

Punisher is good anti-infantry though it costs more now.

Demolisher is a short ranged anti-everything tank, able to shred infantry with it's D6/2D6 (if you've moved under 6") shots, the high strength and D6 Damage shreds vehicles, and three can do serious damage against a knight. All at the cost of having to get dangerously close to the enemy. Run them as Catachan for more attacks and thus more damage, Vostroyan for range, and Tallarn to scoot into cover. Bring them in an Vigilus Emperor's Fist detachment to make one move full speed and still fire their cannon twice.

Another reason to bring Emperor's Fist is to bring a Tank Commander with a Battle Cannon and give it the Hammer of Sunderance relic to turn that D3 damage to a straight 3 damage. That alone is worth the 1CP cost for the detachment.

Now, for the Battle Cannon, yeah, I'd say that of the other choices, it's the best of the lot. Shreds MEQ infantry, decent against vehicles. For a Jack of all Trades weapon, it's better than just "good"

Shouldn't Exterminator autocannon be best MEQ weapon? What about Vanquisher cannon?

 Ernestas wrote:
Shouldn't Exterminator autocannon be best MEQ weapon? What about Vanquisher cannon?

Exterminator, while cheaper, only does 4/8 shots of Str 7 Ap-1 Damage 2.

This means versus MEQ, you're wounding on 3s and your opponent gets a 4+ save (3+ in cover).

Overcharged Executioner and the Battle Cannon, on average, does less shots (average of 2D6 is around 7), but each shot does Str 8 Ap-3 Damage 2 (Executioner) or D3 (Battle Cannon).

Versus MEQ, you're looking at wounding on 2s and your opponent gets a 6+ save (5+ in cover)

So, those slightly fewer shots will actually go through MEQ better than the Exterminator for slightly more cost.

The Vanquisher really is equivalent to an almost slightly better Lascannon that you can shoot twice. I say almost as you trade -1 Str so you get to roll twice when dealing damage and pick the highest. With the Battle Cannon, you trade that 2D6 damage pick the highest for far more shots and D3 Damage. Sure, 2D6 pick highest is nice, but it's far more effective to put more shots through.

The vanquisher definitely just flat out SUCKS. But it's not due to battle cannon being OP but VC just being flat out poorly designed piece of JUNK. In an edition of wounds one shot doing d6 damage just ain't cutting it. There's reason even lascannons aren't generally optimal for AT purpose...

In general the russ weapons are rather badly designed so you ae looking at battle cannon, punisher(for infantry clearing. Total of 40 shots clears down chaff easily. More than 2d6 battle cannon shots wil) and executioner when you have rerolls available. Tank commanders and pask in particular love this one.

Sure, 2D6 pick highest is nice, but it's far more effective to put more shots through.

And on top of that when you face necrons you will be grateful for more d3 damage shots IG still has the melta bonus that's not helping you vs necrons(though actually just makes damage swingier with average staying same except for stratagems). Marines and sisters got melta rule that is flat out bonus vs even necrons.

Exactly. In a Grim Darkness of 41'st millenium, battle cannons fire more rapidly and are more precise weapon to target heavy infantry troops than autocannons. These battle cannons which have far superior rate of fire to autocannons are just barely weaker than fully dedicated anti tank Vanquisher cannons. While Vanquisher cannon round certainly does more damage, it can't beat withering barrage of battle cannon fire.

 Ernestas wrote:
Exactly. In a Grim Darkness of 41'st millenium, battle cannons fire more rapidly and are more precise weapon to target heavy infantry troops than autocannons. These battle cannons which have far superior rate of fire to autocannons are just barely weaker than fully dedicated anti tank Vanquisher cannons. While Vanquisher cannon round certainly does more damage, it can't beat withering barrage of battle cannon fire.

Well the BC doesn't really fire that many shots but instead fires few shots that explode big time. That's just how GW decided to model the big blast.

But the issue isn't with BC but the other weapons that just flat out sucks as GW didn't bother to change them from 7th to 8th sufficiently to keep up with BC changes and then have been further left behind with 8th ed spiraling arms race of lethality. 4 shots from exterminator looks pathetic these days because dice # just keeps going up. But hey that's typical GW power creep for you.

Yeah, I just played a demo and I already do not like how this game plays out. Enemies charging through walls. Squads spreading through half a map and still everyone being able to fire on a squad which is behind a ruble without no line of sight, because someone saw antenna or flag sticking out from a rubble. It is a good sign, lol.


Thank you for your comment. I was being sarcastic about CA. Though, such cannons should get 1 shot and then AoE blast marker with deviation on a miss. Also, there should be two types of ammunition, AP and HE. It simply makes no sense for battle cannon to fire D6 while twin linked autocannons fire just 4. This game seems to be streamlined in all the weird places.

 Ernestas wrote:
Yeah, I just played a demo and I already do not like how this game plays out. Enemies charging through walls. Squads spreading through half a map and still everyone being able to fire on a squad which is behind a ruble without no line of sight, because someone saw antenna or flag sticking out from a rubble. It is a good sign, lol.

For last one keep in mind whole squad needs to see SOMEBODY from target to be able to shoot so if whole squad is spreading half the map then if you don't have ridiculously light terrain some should not have los to target unit. But yeah 1 has antenna visible, everybody from squad dies.

Anything with random shots or damage I avoid.
While it may sound great on paper you're guaranteed to roll 1's when you REALLY need it.
Or you're gonna have one of those games where you only roll 1 and 2.

I'd rather go exterminator and rare annihilator and get guaranteed shots

Well, for me while autocannons provide higher on average rate of fire and are more reliable. Though, lower strength and AP attack gives MEQ great armor saves.

In general I agree with others. Leman Russ guns are badly designed and some of them sucks or are just weak. I find it very hard to replace Battle Cannon, because it is just so damn good at everything.

Match the sponsons and nose-cannon to your turret. The main turret weapon is your main weapon, but the other three can help a lot. Yeah, it's more points into a single model, but there are benefits.
If you take a 48" AT turret weapon, look to take Lascannon in the other slots.
36" Anti-MEQ? Heavy Plasmas.
If you are sticking with the BC, maybe 3x Heavy Bolters?
Demolisher, and Multi-Meltas?

Your turret is the biggest and most reliable weapon, but not the only one a LRBT can equip.
And, use orders if you can. The Tank Commander can help with some problems your units may find.

After all of that, I generally run a BC and Heavy Bolters. If you don't move, that's a lot of firepower to spread around the enemy units.

Just going to note that charging through walls is a necessity of the game's mechanics. In previous editions Infantry were the worst possible unit type, since everything else did their job, but better. Infantry were often the slowest unit that were the most hampered by impeding terrain. In 8th, Infantry are often still some of the slowest models, but they are almost entirely unencumbered by terrain (such as by being able to move through walls, when other units can't). While visually that may be a bit weird, game-play wise it really helps encourage infantry to be used and present on the table. You don't want to see what games of 7th turns into... (ex. bikes driving up walls).